[_ Old Earth _] Why is Creationism essential?

[ThinkerMan]

Why is creationism essential to christianity?

Can't the Genesis story be a parable (I think Jesus told a few of those)?

Why, as christians, is a seven-day creation of the universe so important, yet various other aspects of old-testament judaism not?

Must you really have an opinion about whether or not Adam and Eve had belly buttons to pass the test to enter the pearly gates?

(Here's the answer, they didn't. How do I know? They didn't exist!)

 

[Barbarian]

It's not essential. If you reject evolution, you won't go Hell. Accepting it won't automatically get you to heaven.

In fact, your take on evolution has nothing to do with your salvation at all.

 

[Featherbop]

First of all: Creationism is the belief that God created the universe and everything therein. So yes, creationism is essential. But you could be a creationist and evolutionist at the same time.

Genesis could be a parable, but I have not substancial evidence of this being the case. Present some and we'll talk about that.

Seven day creation is important(For more than one reason I might add). The beggining is very important.

Why on earth would someone need to decide if they beleive that adam and eve had a naval to get to heaven? Thats silly.

They didn't exist!

Unbreakable ignorance

 

[cubedbee]

First of all: Creationism is the belief that God created the universe and everything therein. So yes, creationism is essential. But you could be a creationist and evolutionist at the same time.

I disagree. I definitely believe that God created the universe, but I do not want anyone calling me a creationist. For better or worse, that label has come to describe people who literally believe the creation accounts in Genesis.

Genesis could be a parable, but I have not substancial evidence of this being the case. Present some and we'll talk about that.

Ummm...there's all of science. But I forgot, science doesn't count because you know better.

 

[ThinkerMan]

As an agnostic, I completely agree that creationism and evolution are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

My question is not whether "God created the universe", even Einstein couldn't arrive at that one, so let's let that rest.

My question is about the 7-day creation 6,000 years ago. Why is THAT essential?

The big bang, a 4 billion year old earth, macroevolution, etc do not violate any tenet of christianity. However, they don't jive with Genesis, the flood, and God's catnaps over 7 days.

It is basic idea that the bible must be taken literally, lock, stock and barrel?

 

[Featherbop]

First of all: Creationism is the belief that God created the universe and everything therein. So yes, creationism is essential. But you could be a creationist and evolutionist at the same time.

I disagree. I definitely believe that God created the universe, but I do not want anyone calling me a creationist. For better or worse, that label has come to describe people who literally believe the creation accounts in Genesis.

Genesis could be a parable, but I have not substancial evidence of this being the case. Present some and we'll talk about that.

Ummm...there's all of science. But I forgot, science doesn't count because you know better.

If you believe that God created the universe, then you are a creationist. Are you ashamed of believing God is the creator? Why do you care what other people think about creationists?

I'm also not anti-science. It doesn't contradict creationism. However, peoples interpretations, ideas, and personal "facts" do. I don't know about you bee, but I believe that everyone is biased. I've never found any unbiased, true, undeniable discoveries of science, or anything else, thats contradicts creation.

Well, I could go on and on about this, but I think you get the picture. :

 

[Barbarian]

First of all: Creationism is the belief that God created the universe and everything therein.

That is Christianity. Creationism is the notion that Genesis is literally true, rather than figurative.

So yes, creationism is essential. But you could be a creationist and evolutionist at the same time.

That is redefining creationism. Creation is one thing. Creationism is something different.

Genesis could be a parable, but I have not substancial evidence of this being the case. Present some and we'll talk about that.

We know this from Genesis itself.

Seven day creation is important(For more than one reason I might add). The beggining is very important.

It is not important to salvation in the least. Your views on the subject will have no effect on where you spend eternity.

 

[Vic C.]

Looks like a good debate so far. But I have question and created a new topic to discuss it. Was it a six day or seven day creation?
See here... http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 4727#74727

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

I don't see that (YE) Creationism is a necessary part of christianity, it is however a necessary part of fundamentalist rhetoric. The fact that YECs fight against scientific education is one of the reasons I come to this forum.

 

[cubedbee]

If you believe that God created the universe, then you are a creationist. Are you ashamed of believing God is the creator? Why do you care what other people think about creationists?

I'm not at all ashamed of God. Words convey meaning to people, and most Americans, when they here the word 'creationist' associate it with Christian fundamentalists who believe in the young earth the literal creation account potrays. I don't believe this, and I don't want people to think I do. If someone asks me, I say that I believe in Intelligent Design.

I'm also not anti-science. It doesn't contradict creationism. However, peoples interpretations, ideas, and personal "facts" do. I don't know about you bee, but I believe that everyone is biased. I've never found any unbiased, true, undeniable discoveries of science, or anything else, thats contradicts creation.

There are plenty of undeniable facts of science that refute creation taking place 6000 years ago. Yet, instead of admitting that you might be reading Genesis wrong and that it should be taken figuratively, you instead insist the scientific evidence is wrong.

 

[Featherbop]

First of all: Creationism is the belief that God created the universe and everything therein.

That is Christianity. Creationism is the notion that Genesis is literally true, rather than figurative.

[quote:87cac]So yes, creationism is essential. But you could be a creationist and evolutionist at the same time.

That is redefining creationism. Creation is one thing. Creationism is something different.

Genesis could be a parable, but I have not substancial evidence of this being the case. Present some and we'll talk about that.

We know this from Genesis itself.

Seven day creation is important(For more than one reason I might add). The beggining is very important.

It is not important to salvation in the least. Your views on the subject will have no effect on where you spend eternity.[/quote:87cac]

First of all, believing that God created the universe does not make one a christian. I have no idea how you came up with that.

I never claimed that creation and creationism were the same. Creation is the act of creation, and creationism is the belief in that act.

I've still never seen reliable(something that cannot be dismissed as false) to let me believe in Genesis being not literal. I also never claimed that creationism is important to salvation. I just said its important.

 

[Featherbop]

If you believe that God created the universe, then you are a creationist. Are you ashamed of believing God is the creator? Why do you care what other people think about creationists?

I'm not at all ashamed of God. Words convey meaning to people, and most Americans, when they here the word 'creationist' associate it with Christian fundamentalists who believe in the young earth the literal creation account potrays. I don't believe this, and I don't want people to think I do. If someone asks me, I say that I believe in Intelligent Design.

I'm also not anti-science. It doesn't contradict creationism. However, peoples interpretations, ideas, and personal "facts" do. I don't know about you bee, but I believe that everyone is biased. I've never found any unbiased, true, undeniable discoveries of science, or anything else, thats contradicts creation.

There are plenty of undeniable facts of science that refute creation taking place 6000 years ago. Yet, instead of admitting that you might be reading Genesis wrong and that it should be taken figuratively, you instead insist the scientific evidence is wrong.

Well, I'm glad you aren't ashamed of God. I got that impression at first. You may not believe that Genesis is literal, but you believe that God created the universe, you are a creationist.

I do NOT believe that scientific evidence is wrong. If we had just pure, evidence to deal with, we'd have an easy time determining the truth of things.

We don't live in a perfect world. Everyone is biased. People lie. People are very fallible.

I don't argue against evidence, I argue against people.

 

[Rogue 9]

Creationism is not connected to our salvation in any way, shape, or form. Faith in Christ is all you need, and that faith has precious little to do with whether you believe in a six or seven day creation six thousand years ago.

 

[Barbarian]

Amen.

 

[reznwerks]

My question is about the 7-day creation 6,000 years ago. Why is THAT essential?


It is basic idea that the bible must be taken literally, lock, stock and barrel?

=============
For the fundamentalist this is a life and death issue. To admit one error or one mistake is to admit fallability in what they percieve as the foundation of their being. For if one mistake or error is admitted to then where does it end? It does not take long for the house of cards to crumble when the obvious lets its light in.

 

[Guest]

:angel: Cut the baloney!
Thats a big fat crock of dung and you know it!
Adam & Eve may not have had belly buttons,but they existed alright,amen, and the beauty of it all is that you know it,and are trying to turn people against God just because you are angry at him just like satan.
You are just as much a theist as satan is or very close,so stop with the lie's already!!!
atheist really means a theist,and that is what you are.
you just want people to rebel against God. I have been to your forums and I know what you really believe and your excuses for hating God.
Madalynn O'Hair played the role of hootchy momma and when she got pregnant by a married man who would not leave his wife she blamed God for it. I am sure you already know her story by heart by now. Did God tell her to sleep around with a married man? Of course not! blaming your bad behavior on God is all wrong and it's sick!
the created is not greater than the creator! :Fade-color

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Now we can add obnoxious and slanderous to the list.
You've certainly convinced yourself or been convinced that all atheists are really just people who've been turned from god. Rest assured this is most certainly not the case. If you are going to make an argument, do so. If you're just here to contradict every single thing evolution/big bang proponents say then you can bugger off.

 

[Guest]

slandering vipers

:o what?
you slander the Holy God,his word and his people and you point a long,twisted,shaking finger towards me?
Now that is the big black pot calling the kettle black!
You slander a holy God,the only true God,and I'm the bad one? No so.
You can be forgiven for slandering me,but unless you repent for what you said about God and his creation,his word,ect.... I don't know if you will be forgiven for it. I think not.
obnoxious is the big bang theory religious idea,and trying to sell people on it.
Please read the book of Job so you can understand better. :B-fly:

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

I am not in any way attempting to offend any dieties, whether they exist or not.
I am defending actual science from people who would seek to call ancient Hebrew stories the definitive, alpha and omega of all knowledge about the universe, while ignoring the actual observations and conclusions reached by people who spend years learning about the subjects.
Genesis is not corroborated by facts, face it.

 

[gospelmidi]

Who or what is the ultimate authority?

Who (or what) is the ultimate authority?

The most powerful human being in the land of Israel, except for Jesus, looked at Him and asked, "What is truth?"

Jesus said, "I am the Truth." (John 14:6) "Sanctify them in the truth. Your word is truth." (John 17:17) "Your law is truth." "And all Your commandments are truth." (Ps 119:142b, 151b)

Let God be true, and every man a liar. (Rom 3:4)