[_ Old Earth _] Why is Creationism essential?

[Arnold Philips]

I think it has more to do with Biblical infallibility. Like rezn said earlier, it's a house of cards. They simply can't imagine a world where the Bible might be mistaken, or might contradict itself, or might be vague in an area or two. This doesn't say as much about the Bible than about the radical insecurity of those who endorse its infallibility.

They, for the life of them, can't understand that the Bible can be scientifically wrong about creation, yet still be true theologically. The complaint I often hear is, "Well, if we can't trust the Bible about creation, then we might as well throw the whole thing away!" And, of course, this is patently ludicrous for various reasons.

They've built their whole lives and understanding around the idea that the Bible is infallible, and that it's especially infallible regarding creation. If this cornerstone is taken out, it's not as much a blow to their worldview, but a blow to their being. You aren't telling them, "What you believe is wrong," but "What you ARE is wrong." I think if we recognize this, then a lot of malicious banter and misunderstandings can be done away with.

 

[Vic C.]

Arnold, who are 'they' in your post? :-?

Another question, if you don't take the Genesis creation serious, at which point do you start believing the Bible...the Flood? Exodus? Judges, Kings, Chronicles? The Birth of Christ, the Crucifiction, Resurection, Ascension...?

 

[Arnold Philips]

Arnold, who are 'they' in your post? :-?

It could be a lot of people and it's hard to define. But as I see it, it's the fundamentalists and those with little experience with Biblical criticism.

Another question, if you don't take the Genesis creation serious, at which point do you start believing the Bible...the Flood? Exodus? Judges, Kings, Chronicles? The Birth of Christ, the Crucifiction, Resurection, Ascension...?

Well, I do take the Genesis acount seriously, just not the same way as you may. As for the other parts, one can take them seriously (whatever you mean by that) as indiidual books written by men.

 

[Featherbop]

Arnold, I think Vic may have meant "literally" not "seriously", but I may be wrong though.

 

[Vic C.]

Yes, wrong choice of words. Thanks Bop.

 

[Arnold Philips]

Well, I still stand by what I said. You should take it case by case. I think it foolish to believe the entirety of the Bible was meant to be taken literally. Some parts are poetry, others prophecy, allegory, didactic, history, wisdom, and so on. You must judge each accordingly. You shouldn't judge a cheerleading contest the same way you judge a homicide case.

 

[Guest]

Arnold, who are 'they' in your post? :-?

Another question, if you don't take the Genesis creation serious, at which point do you start believing the Bible...the Flood? Exodus? Judges, Kings, Chronicles? The Birth of Christ, the Crucifiction, Resurection, Ascension...?

:B-fly: Go' Vic,Go!!!
Right on!!!!

 

[Guest]

Well, I still stand by what I said. You should take it case by case. I think it foolish to believe the entirety of the Bible was meant to be taken literally. Some parts are poetry, others prophecy, allegory, didactic, history, wisdom, and so on. You must judge each accordingly. You shouldn't judge a cheerleading contest the same way you judge a homicide case.

:B-fly: O.K.............
What makes you different than say...... Me or Vic? what do you believe
is true about the bible? In other words,how do you understand the bible
differently?

 

[Routerider]

I think it has more to do with Biblical infallibility. Like rezn said earlier, it's a house of cards. They simply can't imagine a world where the Bible might be mistaken, or might contradict itself, or might be vague in an area or two. This doesn't say as much about the Bible than about the radical insecurity of those who endorse its infallibility.

They, for the life of them, can't understand that the Bible can be scientifically wrong about creation, yet still be true theologically. The complaint I often hear is, "Well, if we can't trust the Bible about creation, then we might as well throw the whole thing away!" And, of course, this is patently ludicrous for various reasons.

They've built their whole lives and understanding around the idea that the Bible is infallible, and that it's especially infallible regarding creation. If this cornerstone is taken out, it's not as much a blow to their worldview, but a blow to their being. You aren't telling them, "What you believe is wrong," but "What you ARE is wrong." I think if we recognize this, then a lot of malicious banter and misunderstandings can be done away with.

Arnold, what a fantastic post.


I don't think hardcore Biblical literalism is too far away from worshipping a paper idol. I'm not going to bore people by explaining my beliefs about the Bible but I will say this: I notice that many fundamentalists insist that the Bible is to be taken literally and that NOTHING could possibly be "askew" because this would mean that God didn't babysit the authors when writing. This would mean that God allowed a book to be created [about Him] that is not 100% truth or where human opinion and corruption was allowed....they say "that doesn't sound right, that wouldn't be fair".

These are the same people who when you ask them about the harsh actions of the Hebrew God in the OT they'll say "Well He's the creator of the universe he can do anything he wants to his creation, we deserve hell".

My final comment and this is only my opinion...God is NOT in the business of wiping our hineys and micromanaging our lives....God does NOT stop bad things from happening [garden of eden]....there is NO reason to think that God got involved with the authors of the Bible and assured that they would not interject their opinion or made up stories/tales/legends etc. If this idea sounds unfair to you....well....life ain't fair kid.

 

[Guest]

wiping our hineys and micromanaging our lives....God does NOT stop bad things from happening [garden of eden]....there is NO reason to think that God got involved with the authors of the Bible and assured that they would not interject their opinion or made up stories/tales/legends etc. If this idea sounds unfair to you....well....life ain't fair kid.[/quote]

:B-fly: True,the rain does fall and the good and the bad,but.......
and here it comes......The big fat butt!!!!
But here it is: There have always been many things in the Holy word that confused people of every generation,and there were things that many people didn't think could possibly happen.Some people didn't think Israel would ever be able to become a nation again.As time went on,more and more things have been discovered that supports the truth of the bible.Just because Man cannot understand every thing in the bible right now,doesn't mean they won't one day.We are closer than ever before in understanding all of the bible. In the last days,much more information will be revealed to people,and the people will insist on a literal interpretation of the words in the Bible.
Just because a few hundred years ago people didn't understand how the Anti christ was going to be able to put a mark on so many people in the last days,didn't mean the bible was wrong. The times we are in now proves it's very possible,but the people of a hundred years ago didn't know it would one day be possible like it is now.
The Bible tells us about life in the past,present and the future,but just because man cannot understand or accept every detail doesn't make it in error. :Fade-color
We are learning more and more because knoweledge has increased so to speak and the books are being opened up in the last days,more is being revealed to us now.
Doctors have learned from the bible,Archaeologists learn from the bible,atronomers have learned from the bible,and the list goes on.
There must have appeared to be alot more contradictions in the bible hundreds of years ago compared to now,and every so called bible contradiction today has an answer and they can even be found on the internet.
In years past,people trusted God's word by faith and accepted it.
It wasn't blind faith,and I don't believe so many people would be martyred and killed for blind faith either.
The Bible has no real contradictions and as time goes on,no one will be able to say they have found even one contradiction,because today,every so called contradiction has a very good answer,and people didn't know the answers many years ago in the past. We are getting much closer now to total understanding of the bible,or close. Much closer than ever before.No stone will go unturned!

 

[Guest]

angels & man

:D Also,for those interested to know,The bible said we were made just a little lower than the angels.
Angels and people still inter-act even if many people don't yet know this.
My point is this: The Bible is Right,and it's proving it more and more every day,amen.

Angels could have inter-breeded with man,because we were made just a little lower than the Angels.

 

[mh13]

Angels could have inter-breeded with man,because we were made just a little lower than the Angels.

Genesis 6:2 (KJV)
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:4 (KJV)
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 

[Routerider]

Angels could have inter-breeded with man,because we were made just a little lower than the Angels.

Genesis 6:2 (KJV)
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:4 (KJV)
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Knowing the chaos that ensued as a result of this fleshly communion betwix women and celestial beings, why does it not happen today?

 

[mh13]

Knowing the chaos that ensued as a result of this fleshly communion betwix women and celestial beings, why does it not happen today?

http://www.returnofthenephilim.com

I can't vouch for all the content, but there's some fun and interesting reading

 

[Barabbas]

A belief in Creationism is NOT necessary to become a Christian. It HAS become a HELP to the Christian in the face of secular science that points more towards Chance than Design. As I mentioned on an earlier post, there is a modern tendency to idolize the "lab coat".
Since this tendency seems to be ingrained among us all, I have an idea that Creationism has come about, with good science as well, to assist Christians in their beliefs. Is it needed to BE a Christian, again, no.
Society has moved, or is moving toward a reliance more on the finite with its limited reasoning, and moving away from a reliance on the infinite. Some used to call this Faith.
Personally, I enjoy studying Creationism and learning more and more science as it relates to Scriptures. It shows me more of the wonderful and miraculous power of God. As a side note, when studying Pre-Flood conditions, I also see the loss of a wonderful design and the transformation into something skewed or twisted from its original intent, yet entirely suitable for Man's habitation and survival.
Yol Bolsun.

 

[Guest]

Angels could have inter-breeded with man,because we were made just a little lower than the Angels.

Genesis 6:2 (KJV)
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:4 (KJV)
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Knowing the chaos that ensued as a result of this fleshly communion betwix women and celestial beings, why does it not happen today?

:Fade-color Could it be that they don't want to be destroyed any sooner than they will be? The Angels may remember what happened the last time they tried to pull it off!

 

[mh13]

Could it be that they don't want to be destroyed any sooner than they will be? The Angels may remember what happened the last time they tried to pull it off!

plus there are angels bound right now, I believe that these are the same angels from Gen 6.
Jude 1:6 (KJV)
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[Guest]

Could it be that they don't want to be destroyed any sooner than they will be? The Angels may remember what happened the last time they tried to pull it off!

plus there are angels bound right now, I believe that these are the same angels from Gen 6.
Jude 1:6 (KJV)
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

It does appear that some of them are at least.
They also know that God can stop them from it,but that doesn't mean that satan won't try to take advantage of cloning or other means of man tampering with human reproduction,genes,ect...

 

[Barbarian]

The Great Commission is often impeded by creationists who claim that their belief is Biblical.

When people who know better see Christians adhering to something they know to be false, they sometimes assume that all of it is false.

Even worse, Christians taught creationism often grow up to learn that it is not true, and sometimes lose their faith thereby.

It is a stumbling block to spreading the good news.

 

[Guest]

The Great Commission is often impeded by creationists who claim that their belief is Biblical.

When people who know better see Christians adhering to something they know to be false, they sometimes assume that all of it is false.

Even worse, Christians taught creationism often grow up to learn that it is not true, and sometimes lose their faith thereby.

It is a stumbling block to spreading the good news.

:B-fly: Oh',so then you are a enlightened one,huh?
You know what the truth is,and those of us who are creationist christians just do not have a clue,right?
You really don't get it do you?
This world will be blind to the truth,the world loves sin and the worldly will defend it all costs. I'm not your judge,no sir,but I know you must have some sin in your life that you love way too much to ever let go of, to come up with the false accusations you come up with.
What you believe to be true about the world will one day set your tail on fire,I just hope there will be someone with whom you can learn the truth from before it ever comes to that.