[_ Old Earth _] Try wrapping your mind around the headline for this article

[Knotical]

Pro-gay Psychologists Say Gays are Not Born That Way and are Not Happy.

http://zionica.com/2016/01/12/pro-g...ays-are-not-born-that-way-and-are-not-happy/#

This almost feels like a compliment wrapped within an insult.

 

[Barbarian]

Most data shows no direct genetic component to homosexuality, but there is considerable evidence for it being the result of hormonal imbalances during gestation. Certainly almost all homosexuals report knowing that they were so, from an early age. We still don't know for sure, but I think when the evidence is all sorted, we'll find prenatal conditions are very important.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation

 

[Knotical]

Not really. It is still a sin, regardless.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Most data shows no direct genetic component to homosexuality, but there is considerable evidence for it being the result of hormonal imbalances during gestation. Certainly almost all homosexuals report knowing that they were so, from an early age. We still don't know for sure, but I think when the evidence is all sorted, we'll find prenatal conditions are very important.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation

This is in compliance with your constant worldly outlook on everything.
I've personally known many homosexuals, especially in Boston when I was in my 20's and 30's.
Only a couple of them claimed a feeling to be homosexual when they were young.
Many used excuses like they didn't have a father figure, etc...
But most of them were just plain full fledged perverts.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian cites evidence:
Most data shows no direct genetic component to homosexuality, but there is considerable evidence for it being the result of hormonal imbalances during gestation. Certainly almost all homosexuals report knowing that they were so, from an early age. We still don't know for sure, but I think when the evidence is all sorted, we'll find prenatal conditions are very important.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation

This is in compliance with your constant worldly outlook on everything.

I never saw how God would want His people to turn their back on truth. I know a lot of people think faith should be immune to reality, but in my mind, faith is completely in tune with the truth.

I've personally known many homosexuals, especially in Boston when I was in my 20's and 30's.
Only a couple of them claimed a feeling to be homosexual when they were young.

How odd...

As you see, right around puberty, where you'd expect it to be, if it was determined very early. I suppose that one of the problems of anecdotal information is that every now and then someone like you, (by chance, I'm sure) gets a completely skewed sample.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Barbarian cites evidence:
Most data shows no direct genetic component to homosexuality, but there is considerable evidence for it being the result of hormonal imbalances during gestation. Certainly almost all homosexuals report knowing that they were so, from an early age. We still don't know for sure, but I think when the evidence is all sorted, we'll find prenatal conditions are very important.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation



I never saw how God would want His people to turn their back on truth. I know a lot of people think faith should be immune to reality, but in my mind, faith is completely in tune with the truth.



How odd...

As you see, right around puberty, where you'd expect it to be, if it was determined very early. I suppose that one of the problems of anecdotal information is that every now and then someone like you, (by chance, I'm sure) gets a completely skewed sample.

I'm surprised you think my "sample" as you call it, is skewed.
It is based on face to face conversation.
You base what you call the truth on polls that are anything but realistic.
Talking to you is like talking to a robot that was programmed by a poll of sorts.

 

[Barbarian]

I'm surprised you think my "sample" as you call it, is skewed.

That's a technical term, when a sample of a population is greatly different than the actual population.

It is based on face to face conversation.

I have talked to a lot of homosexuals, and not one has ever told me that he or she decided to become homosexual after reaching adulthood. As you see, a much larger sample of homosexuals than either your or I have talked to, say the same thing. So there it is. It's maybe remarkable that your smaller sample doesn't match the population very well, but that's completely possible.

You base what you call the truth on polls that are anything but realistic.

Larger samples are always more valid than small ones. Here's why:

Sample Size: How Many Survey Participants Do I Need?
http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/Soc_participants.shtml

Talking to you is like talking to a robot that was programmed by a poll of sorts.

I spent a long time in a business where reliability was important. So anecdotal information isn't really very persuasive for me.

 

[jasonc]

I would at ten,but I didn't understand it then

 

[Barbarian]

A purely heterosexual kid at 10 wouldn't get it, either. But I remember at 10, starting to notice how cute girls were, compared to guys, even if it wasn't sexual. Had no clue otherwise, at that time.

 

[turnorburn]

There's a strong evil spirit behind sodomites, homosexuals, gays, only Jesus can set them free..

 

[Barbarian]

There's a strong evil spirit behind sinners, period. Only Jesus can set us free. But you know what Jesus said to the "my sin is nicer than your sin" crowd. Avoid being with them.

 

[Knotical]

Once again, regardless of how people think they have "become gay" it is still a sin, pure and simple. That is the truth.

As I mentioned in another thread, if something found in science does not coincide with the bible it must be dismissed.

 

[Barbarian]

Once again, regardless of how people think they have "become gay" it is still a sin, pure and simple. That is the truth.

Like any other inclination to sin that we might have. We are all selfish, which seems to have been a much bigger concern for Jesus than homosexuality, which He never directly discussed in scripture. It's just a different sin. And having homosexual feelings is no more a sin than having selfish feelings, so long as one does not dwell on them, or let them determine our behavior. A celibate homosexual is to be commended, just as a celibate unmarried heterosexual should be.

As I mentioned in another thread, if something found in science does not coincide with the bible it must be dismissed.

God is not neutral on this. He is truth, after all. Nothing that is true, is contrary to Him or to our faith in Him.

 

[Knotical]

Like any other inclination to sin that we might have. We are all selfish, which seems to have been a much bigger concern for Jesus than homosexuality, which He never directly discussed in scripture. It's just a different sin. And having homosexual feelings is no more a sin than having selfish feelings, so long as one does not dwell on them, or let them determine our behavior. A celibate homosexual is to be commended, just as a celibate unmarried heterosexual should be.



God is not neutral on this. He is truth, after all. Nothing that is true, is contrary to Him or to our faith in Him.

Just because they do not act on something does not mean they are not living in sin. But let's be clear on some things. First, since this is not a debate forum I am not going to enter into that kind of discussion. Second, my original point for bringing up this article is to highlight how odd and misleading at articles title can be in relation to the actual content. Lastly, what are you talking about in your last statement here? It appears as if you are saying something without saying anything.

 

[Barbarian]

Just because they do not act on something does not mean they are not living in sin.

It is no sin to have an urge to sin. It is a sin only if you give in to that urge.

But let's be clear on some things. First, since this is not a debate forum I am not going to enter into that kind of discussion.

Actually, it is a discussion and debate forum.

Second, my original point for bringing up this article is to highlight how odd and misleading at articles title can be in relation to the actual content.

That's true.

Lastly, what are you talking about in your last statement here?

I'm saying that there is no essential difference between chastity for homosexuals and unmarried heterosexuals.

 

[Knotical]

It is no sin to have an urge to sin. It is a sin only if you give in to that urge.

You, apparently, have forgotten the account of when Jesus further explained what it means to sin using adultery as an example. You don't have to actually commit an overt act in order to sin, all you have to do is entertain it in your mind.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Sin is a word, deed, or desire in opposition to the eternal law of God.
St. Augustine of Hippo

That word desire covers urge.

Thomas Aquinas quoted this exact passage in his summa theologica.

 

[Barbarian]

That word desire covers urge.

No, it doesn't. An urge to sin is called temptation. And that is not a sin. Since Christ was tempted, it could not be a sin.

 

[brother Paul]

I am going to step out on a dangerous limb here...I have found that Biblically God does not condemn people based on their desires or orientation it is more akin to acting out on those propensities. Now granted, Jesus in referring to an absolute holiness, refers to even contemplating adultery is as adultery but I do not think that refers to the short instances of attraction even sexual attraction (I think that is hotwired into us by God Himself) but rather the entertaining of such imaginings. I realize there will be those who disagree and that's okay, I do not have all truth, He does....

Secondly, in the Bible I see what is abominable to God is the act of sodomizing one another and in the Bible it is clear that all who do this are not homosexual for many are hetero or bi (see judges 19)....I even think this is what is being referred to in Romans referring to women exchanging that which is natural for that which is unnatural...finally the only place the word "homosexual" appears in the modern English it is actually the word commonly used in Greek for young male prostitutes (malakos)...

Probably unrelated but consider this a while....extremists like the Westboro Baptist group are not representative of the Biblical view nor the attitude of Christ who died for all of us...as we are ALL sinners and have fallen short of the glory of God

 

[Barbarian]

I am going to step out on a dangerous limb here...I have found that Biblically God does not condemn people based on their desires or orientation it is more akin to acting out on those propensities.

Of course. If one is tempted, and resists temptation, that is commendable, not blameworthy.

Now granted, Jesus in referring to an absolute holiness, refers to even contemplating adultery is as adultery but I do not think that refers to the short instances of attraction even sexual attraction (I think that is hotwired into us by God Himself) but rather the entertaining of such imaginings.

Absolutely. But a smart person, even if he doesn't dwell on such things, is also wise to avoid occasion to sin. One should not put one's self into a position to be tempted.

Secondly, in the Bible I see what is abominable to God is the act of sodomizing one another and in the Bible it is clear that all who do this are not homosexual for many are hetero or bi (see judges 19)....I even think this is what is being referred to in Romans referring to women exchanging that which is natural for that which is unnatural...finally the only place the word "homosexual" appears in the modern English it is actually the word commonly used in Greek for young male prostitutes (malakos)...

It seems to me that Jesus spent most time decrying other sins. Not that sexual immorality isn't sin. But He clearly saw other kinds of sin as more deadly to us.

Probably unrelated but consider this a while....extremists like the Westboro Baptist group are not representative of the Biblical view nor the attitude of Christ who died for all of us...as we are ALL sinners and have fallen short of the glory of God

Easy to fall into the idea that one's own sins are less evil than the sins of others. I think you have this exactly right.