I think that there is no needed to defending or proving the truth of Christian

[art7]

I think that there is no needed to defending or proving the truth of Christian
doctrine .We meet Jezus by the Heart,intellect is illusive and often
lead us to place that we dont want to be.
Intellect often lead us to priade.
One of most negated things by Jezus is pride.
To be Christians we need humility.

 

[God's_gift]

i agree, but there is also a question, is it possible to know the truth without challenging it first?

 

[Eventide]

The gospel of God concerning His Son is the only thing which can completely satisfy the deepest demands of the heart and mind...

God doesn't ask anyone to check their mind at the door but rather that we reason together...

IMO the Christian life is a life of correction, and yet most seem to be beyond correction. It's as if scripture doesn't matter, but rather what we believe to be true regardless of what it says in simplicity and in truth..

In that sense I'd agree with the op.

 

[art7]

I think that always are some questions,
sometimes everybady have moments of doubt
but a nswer is only one- Jezus Love
and Love we can not understand by reason
only through the heart

 

[wayseer]

I think that there is no needed to defending or proving the truth of Christian
doctrine .We meet Jezus by the Heart,intellect is illusive and often
lead us to place that we dont want to be.
Intellect often lead us to priade.
One of most negated things by Jezus is pride.
To be Christians we need humility.

... and perhaps part of that humility is the acceptance that we need to learn how to protect our faith.

 

[WIP]

I often question whether it is necessary or even possible to prove Christianity to non-believers but I do think it is good for discussion or correction among believers to strengthen us and help us grow and mature in our walk of faith.

 

[art7]

... and perhaps part of that humility is the acceptance that we need to learn how to protect our faith.

all what we need to protect our faith is Love to Jezus and people,
prayer and live according 10 Commandments

 

[chakham]

all what we need to protect our faith is Love to Jezus and people,
prayer and live according 10 Commandments

It was asked what is the greatest commandment? Yeshua said the greatest is to love Yehovah your God (not Jezus) with all your heart (Deuteronomony 6:4) The second was to love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). By teaching Gods commandment found in Leviticus it would seem then there are more than just ten commandments to live by. I do not contend that we live by them as a legalistic checklist in order to gain entry into the kingdom to come. But rather as a way of life it seems to me to be important that we do. For God said his commandments are holy rightoues and good and after giving them he added be ye holy for I am holy. Abiding in his commandments I think is what truely 'marks' us as His.

 

[WIP]

It was asked what is the greatest commandment? Yeshua said the greatest is to love Yehovah your God (not Jezus) with all your heart (Deuteronomony 6:4) The second was to love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18). By teaching Gods commandment found in Leviticus it would seem then there are more than just ten commandments to live by. I do not contend that we live by them as a legalistic checklist in order to gain entry into the kingdom to come. But rather as a way of life it seems to me to be important that we do. For God said his commandments are holy rightoues and good and after giving them he added be ye holy for I am holy. Abiding in his commandments I think is what truely 'marks' us as His.

It is important to point out that Jesus is God. I agree that we cannot gain entry by following a checklist of rules because it is not within our ability. We've proven that time and time again. It is through Jesus Christ that we are saved and none other.

 

[Free]

Defending Christianity is very much needed but it isn't so much about proving Christianity as it is showing that the Christian faith is rational and based on reason and evidence. It is about clearing away doubts and obstacles for unbelievers, including correcting false views towards Christianity and misunderstandings regarding Christian theology.

Mat 22:36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
Mat 22:37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. (ESV)

1Pe 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, (ESV)

 

[Sinthesis]

If there is no need to defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrine, then how can someone practice the great commission? With a sword?

 

[celo]

Allow me to humbly offer my perspective, since I am not Christian, and am agnostic.

Pending new (and miraculous) developments, there is no way to prove or disprove your religion (or my agnosticism! lol).

Most of the "proof" involves quoting scripture. What seems lost in many debates on the subject is the value of said scripture relative to different people. A devout Christian may see scripture as having more integrity than a block of steel. A non-believer may believe that the Bible belongs in the fiction section at the bookstore.

How can you draw on evidence that another regards as fiction?

I have no doubt that the New Testament confirms Christianity.
I also have no doubt that Star Wars cannon confirms Luke Skywalker to be a Jedi.

Hopefully you see my point. To find proof of Christianity, one must first have faith that the scripture is divine.

So in essence, all proof is fundamentally based on having faith.

That's why it is called a faith, and not a fact. People don't say I am loosing my fact. They say they are loosing their faith. This is more meaningful than simple semantics.

This is why I believe that all faiths should be principled on attraction rather than promotion.

If being a good Christian improves your life and contact with God, people will respect that, and may even desire what you have. Going around telling people they are wrong and you are right is usually not a successful strategy to influence people. This is why the Spanish inquisitors needed torture. If you need torture to spread the love of God, I think it may be time to reconsider one's strategies.

In no way am I comparing the Inquisition to this, it's just an extreme example to help illustrate the nature of my point. No offense intended!

I suppose I never understand why people feel the need for others to conform when power and dominance is not the primary impetus.

Is there a certain manifest destiny that is core to the Christian faith??

 

[WIP]

If there is no need to defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrine, then how can someone practice the great commission? With a sword?

Word of mouth and by example.

 

[Free]

Most of the "proof" involves quoting scripture. What seems lost in many debates on the subject is the value of said scripture relative to different people. A devout Christian may see scripture as having more integrity than a block of steel. A non-believer may believe that the Bible belongs in the fiction section at the bookstore.

How can you draw on evidence that another regards as fiction?

First one mush show that the Bible isn't fiction.

I have no doubt that the New Testament confirms Christianity.
I also have no doubt that Star Wars cannon confirms Luke Skywalker to be a Jedi.

The significant difference is that Star Wars is known to be fiction and the NT records history as it was seen and experienced by real people.

Hopefully you see my point. To find proof of Christianity, one must first have faith that the scripture is divine.

Not at all. One must approach the Bible with an open mind, not having dismissed it as fiction before having thoroughly studied it and it's claims.

So in essence, all proof is fundamentally based on having faith.

No, not all proof.

That's why it is called a faith, and not a fact. People don't say I am loosing my fact. They say they are loosing their faith. This is more meaningful than simple semantics.

But the Christian faith is based on fact, namely, that Jesus the Christ was a real person who was crucified, died and rose again that we might be reconciled to God, receive his forgiveness and be saved from death as well.

This is why I believe that all faiths should be principled on attraction rather than promotion.

If being a good Christian improves your life and contact with God, people will respect that, and may even desire what you have. Going around telling people they are wrong and you are right is usually not a successful strategy to influence people. This is why the Spanish inquisitors needed torture. If you need torture to spread the love of God, I think it may be time to reconsider one's strategies.

In no way am I comparing the Inquisition to this, it's just an extreme example to help illustrate the nature of my point. No offense intended!

Point taken. However, there is a vast difference between torturing and simply claiming that someone is wrong, or most likely wrong, and showing why one is most likely right; or why one belief is better or preferable to another.

I suppose I never understand why people feel the need for others to conform when power and dominance is not the primary impetus.

This makes it seem as though you really do not understand the Bible or the claims of the Christian faith.

Is there a certain manifest destiny that is core to the Christian faith??

I'm not sure what you are asking here.

 

[chakham]

It is important to point out that Jesus is God. I agree that we cannot gain entry by following a checklist of rules because it is not within our ability. We've proven that time and time again. It is through Jesus Christ that we are saved and none other.

One at a time a I guess. Why is it important to point out Jesus is God? Your question makes good fodder for discussion. Though I think it better to start another topic for this one.

What commandment is beyond our ability to do? Obviously the Temple is destroyed so there are some that are impossible to connduct whether we wanted to or not. But of the ones we can I ask again which ones are beyond us? Did not Yeshua himself say that Gods burden is lite and his yoke is easy?

For this commandment which I command you this day, is not hidden from you, nor is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it, and do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very near to you, in your mouth, and in your heart, that you may do it.

God even said we are given a mark upon our hand and forehead that indentifies us as His if we keep His commandments. If then we recieve a mark for abiding in his commandments what mark do those recieve who foresake them?

Therefore shall you lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

 

[WIP]

Why is it important to point out Jesus is God?

Because that is a big part of the basis of our Christian faith. Remember:

Section 2: Specific Rules, Guidelines and Processes (the “meat†of the ToS)

2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act.

What commandment is beyond our ability to do?

I stand corrected. Let me rewrite that statement.

I agree that we cannot gain entry by following a checklist of rules because it is not within our own ability.

 

[jasoncran]

@kumi

the law when done was to be done with discerment it meant that if one had one law to follow and another then one had to follow the greater law.

ie if is its the shabat then a baby is eight days old and is a male and need circumcision then what was to be done? the later!

 

[chakham]

Because that is a big part of the basis of our Christian faith. Remember:

Section 2: Specific Rules, Guidelines and Processes (the “meat” of the ToS)

2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act.




I stand corrected. Let me rewrite that statement.

I agree that we cannot gain entry by following a checklist of rules because it is not within our own ability.

I am not trying to put down Christianity in any way. Its just that you thought it was important to point something out I used to believe but no longer do. I do have much say about this and ideas to share in a civil discussion. Im in no way shape or form wanting to make accusations or point out percieved faults of other, as I have enough of my own to contend with. I am truely interested why you thought it was important.

If we do engage in a discussion about this I believe that I as well as you may learn something.

True there is nothing we can do to appease God. Yet as scripture indicates he does encourage us to abide in His commandments and even though we may stumble at times. It is only by repentence and His great mercy that we live. But I dont believe that should relieve us of our responsibility to live according to our Kings commandments a.k.a Torah. We as parents expect our children to live according to ours, when they do they are rewarded when they dont they are punished. What would you do if you told your son, do not eat the candy bar until after you had dinner. Then right there in front of you he grabs the candy bar and gobbles it up and says to you I dont have to do what you say anymore because I have grace. How far do you think that would fly? I tell you what if he were my son I'd grab that brat up and paddle his hind end for his disobedience. :yes

Why do some parents who wouldnt accept such behavior from their son. Turn right around and say we do not need his holy, righteous and good commandments because we now have grace. How far do think that is going to fly with our Father in heaven?

Peace

 

[Seeker]

I think that there is no needed to defending or proving the truth of Christian
doctrine .We meet Jezus by the Heart,intellect is illusive and often
lead us to place that we dont want to be.
Intellect often lead us to priade.
One of most negated things by Jezus is pride.
To be Christians we need humility.

While I do believe in a certain aspect of "faith", I believe some people are halting too early in their thought-process. To this end, I would like to raise two issues, God willing.

How does a person come to believe in or have faith in any doctrine / faith tradition? Most Christians (and adherents to other religions) will be so because that is the dominant faith of their family/society. Either that, or somebody proved the truth of it to them. Or perhaps, in some cases, they approached the scripture themselves and it proved the truth of itself.

The second issue is that of being the one who guides people. Isn't that a great blessing? And is it not the command of Jesus Christ to spread truth (if memory serves me correctly, it is termed the Great Commission or something similar)?

 

[WIP]

How does a person come to believe in or have faith in any doctrine / faith tradition? Most Christians (and adherents to other religions) will be so because that is the dominant faith of their family/society. Either that, or somebody proved the truth of it to them. Or perhaps, in some cases, they approached the scripture themselves and it proved the truth of itself.

I would like to suggest a fourth possibility; that God made himself known to the person regardless of family influence, external proof, or by reading scripture.