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  1. B

    My approach to predestination and salvation

    Hi WIP, I can understand wanting a better answer, but I thought I did give more to think about... 1)Why do we need to go out and make disciples? Well, first of all, because we've been commanded to do so. Why do we need to do good works if we've already been saved by Jesus' works? Well...
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    My approach to predestination and salvation

    Hi Grazer, That's awesome that you've come to that conclusion. So I assume then that the gospel isn't foolishness to you, right? You believe that you deserve the wrath of God and that Jesus suffered it for you so that you could be reconciled to God? If so, then I would say that God has...
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    My approach to predestination and salvation

    Hi Grazer, No, that is a false represenation of predestination. We believe God chose according to His good pleasure, not because of anything of value in us. And it also seems to be implied that God has chosen the least valued... Corinthians 1:27 (NAS) - but God has chosen the foolish things of...
  4. B

    My approach to predestination and salvation

    Hi Ernest, What you seem to be missing is that every man was perfectly represented by Adam. If it was you in the garden instead of Adam you would have done the exact same thing. God, being perfect, chose the perfect representative for you (and everyone else) in Adam. And so, we are...
  5. B

    My approach to predestination and salvation

    Hi Grazer, 1)Why do we need to go out and make disciples? Well, first of all, because we've been commanded to do so. Why do we need to do good works if we've already been saved by Jesus' works? Well, probably because it is pleasing to God. But also, do you have no desire to see someone...
  6. B

    My approach to predestination and salvation

    Hi SBG, 1)You see, this is a big difference between our views. In your view God's knows people will not be saved even though He really wants them to be saved and yet He creates them anyway. Now those people are suffering eternal punishment for no purpose whatsoever. That seems rather evil...
  7. B

    Predestination: For or against?

    Hi Davies, Yes, that is what is so wonderful about it! Boasting is completely excluded! I will not be in heaven because I did something better than someone else (i.e., chose God). I will only be in heaven because of God's grace. That's what it comes down to. The difference between those...
  8. B

    My approach to predestination and salvation

    Yes, I completely agree with John 3:16. Whoever believes will be saved. But only those who are: Christ's sheep, of God, the elect, drawn by the Father, etc, will believe. If you believe that 2 Peter 3:9 is talking about every person ever created (and not the elect) then I have a couple of...
  9. B

    Predestination: For or against?

    Hi Allen, the Bible is quite clear that a natural man (a man without the Spirit) will not choose God. 1 Corinthians 2:14 - But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually...
  10. B

    My approach to predestination and salvation

    Hi Grazer, In my opinion, most of what you said is correct. The one problem with what you said is this... "God has chosen everyone by Jesus's act on the cross and his resurrection." God chose the elect, not everyone. The ones He chose He gave to Jesus, put His Spirit in them, gave them a new...
  11. B

    My approach to predestination and salvation

    Hi Ernest, God would not be culpable for the lost in this situation. If 10 men are about to be executed for crimes they committed and the governor pardons 5 of them then the governor is not then culpable for the execution of the other 5.
  12. B

    Predestination: For or against?

    Thanks for the responses. It's good to see that the views aren't all against this doctrine (as I described it). It is a very difficult doctrine to accept, but I believe it is wonderfully humbling and magnifies the grace of God.
  13. B

    Predestination: For or against?

    Thank you for the welcomes, Eugene and Reba.
  14. B

    Predestination: For or against?

    Hi all, I've recently come to the conclusion that the Bible teaches the doctrine of predestination and election in the sense that God chooses who will be saved according to His good pleasure (not by looking into the future and seeing who will freely choose Him (since none will)). The ones He...
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