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  1. I

    What is Election?

    Already clarified in post#564. By that definition, is every single man "cranked" out as a "natural robot" in the flesh - given that you hold man has no choice in Adam until the "chance" is given?
  2. I

    What is Election?

    I was not aware of your position against the doctrine of eternal security. Instead of holding it as a conditional criteria, I would say that the indication/evidence of one truly being "saved" (again, I don't know how you use the term with finality given your position against eternal security) -...
  3. I

    What is Election?

    I am in complete agreement with this observation of yours. Where we differ is - your doctrine is built on there still being some good potential to be realized in some men(above case 2) - and mine is built on there being no more good potential to be realized in any man(above case 1), thereby...
  4. I

    What is Election?

    When is this question being posed? Before man's regeneration, man's role is to "decide" to want and ask for a new heart (Eze 18:31). Every man "decides" against this. At man's regeneration, man's decision is not a factor at all - as it is wholly dependent on God's mercy alone. Define "robot"...
  5. I

    What is Election?

    I agree to all the above. And then I'm saying that any good "fundamental potential" in us has been corrupted by sin - and now all of us are without any such fundamental potential to love and support righteousness to grow out of our hearts. And that's precisely why God creates a new heart with...
  6. I

    What is Election?

    The soil analogy would be sufficient if you held only the soil texture(hardness or permeability) to be the "fundamental potential" of the heart - but you hold something else (such as nutrients) as the "fundamental potential" of the heart. And moreover you make it independent of the soil texture...
  7. I

    What is Election?

    I acknowledge the limitations of analogies - and I don't mind any revisions as long as you keep defining the parallels clearly. As asked earlier, what is the equivalent of God's holy commandments, and the equivalent of man's sinning - and what is the effect of such sinning in your analogy? Why...
  8. I

    What is Election?

    That's pretty much what I'd say. To be more contextually precise, I'd say - " I'm saved, and I did absolutely nothing that could amount to a causative factor of such salvation - and there's nothing I want to nor thankfully can do to nullify such salvation. Everything is fulfilled as per what God...
  9. I

    What is Election?

    What does the seed represent - the Gospel of Christ specifically or God's overall commandments unto good works? I do not see the parable of the sower to represent one's sanctification process - i hold it to represent the various responses to the preaching/sowing of the Gospel of Christ...
  10. I

    What is Election?

    Where did you pick "commandment births sin" from what I'd written? Yes, I did qualify it so. And my question still holds. What is God's causative role in all this - He first purposed that "flesh should give birth to flesh". Is that God causing sin? Then sin enters the flesh in the Garden of...
  11. I

    What is Election?

    Whatever God does is Glorious. Matt 3:9 states no man can claim any merit or glory for himself - since it's not dependent on him at all. And who spoke about any robots? Am I talking of a man who does not have a consciousness that can choose or who does not have a nature that can generate...
  12. I

    What is Election?

    I hold all of the below to be simultaneously true - 1. God alone determines who will be saved. 2. God causes the regenerate to will and do according to His good pleasure. 3. God does not cause the unregenerate's unbelief or sin. 4. No man in the flesh, inclusive of Adam as he was created, can...
  13. I

    What is Election?

    Firstly, that is to say God did not at all plant any seeds of righteousness in any man before the Gospel call of faith - do you not consider any of God's Holy commandments to be seeds of righteousness that never grew and bore fruit in fallen corrupt man? Secondly, my earlier point stands - the...
  14. I

    What is Election?

    I'm assuming your statement about suffering refers to the believer's sanctification - but I'm here concerned about man's regeneration alone. If the soil is hardened and "nothing good can be grown in that soil" without it being "broken up" (I'd say renewed/recreated) - what profit is it to plant...
  15. I

    What is Election?

    Where does this "inherent quality" reside - from what you've written, I assume it's within the heart of man. But a corruption has befallen this soil, thereby hardening the soil = man's heart is hardened as stone. How can the Gardener grow anything on hardened soil? You say there is "a chance"...
  16. I

    What is Election?

    Concerning the election of God as put forth by the reformed view, most object to it because I think they're approaching it from a very humanistic position. I was always given the analogy of that famous quote - "If you love something, set it free - if it comes back it is yours, if it doesn't it...
  17. I

    What is Election?

    How is Heb 4:12 even close to upholding the concept of "free will"? It is describing the attributes of the Word of God - that it is so sharp(precise) it can even penetrate between that which seemingly cannot be separated. And why is the "soul" indicative of the "mindset of the flesh"? The two...
  18. I

    What is Election?

    I am quite opposed to the concept of "free will" where it states one may choose arbitrarily independent of the inclinations of his nature - which is why I term it just "will", which is wholly dependent on the inclinations of his own nature - either the outer flesh-nature or the inner...
  19. I

    What is Election?

    Hold our earlier posts#592,593 for reference on this. What I've described in my last post is only Step 3 of my position(quoted again below). The consideration of human input(man's will/choice) happens in Step 1, before what I described begins. You seem too entrenched in what you think is the...
  20. I

    What is Election?

    I do not disagree with this. You've got to try imagining this as an entire process of say gift-wrapping an object. First, the gift-wrapping paper is spread out. It is slid under the object. Then, fold-by-fold the wrapping paper is made to cover the object - until finally it encloses the entire...
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