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  1. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    I am in full agreement with this. It's just that I find myself so convincingly steeped in my own beliefs of the truth, that they don't seem like my own opinions at all. Of course, I could be terribly blind over several such beliefs - and I request anyone who observes this to ask me to back from...
  2. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    This is why the OP put forth the same question - and I thought we concluded in The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines']post36[/URL] that God is still just when He requires the impossible of man as long as He is not the cause of setting the impossibility. In this case, God withholding His...
  3. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    Agreed. And the doctrine of Total Depravity does not anywhere state that God created man so - God created man with the capacity to know and seek Him - it is Sin in the flesh that renders man unable to use that God-given capacity to know and seek Him. Hence, Rom 3:11-12. So again, why must God be...
  4. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    Wait, so are you saying you don't have any issues with Total Depravity itself thus far, as long as it doesn't contradict any other part of Scripture? If not, let's just finish discussing the specific contentious points of the doctrine itself before discussing its harmony. The passage you...
  5. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    I have 2 points to discuss over this - Firstly, could you explain why God is to be blamed for allowing/permitting the effects of Sin whatever they may be, when He has not directly/indirectly caused Sin itself. And I would differentiate between capacity and ability here - God created man with...
  6. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    Right. I'll be content that you've now declared I didn't do good. But my earlier point over semantics still stands - Oxford Learner's: Good(7) - morally right; behaving in a way that is morally right. (Biblically, moral right is that which does not transgress God's will.) Good(12) - having a...
  7. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    I know. I'm simply trying to show that semantics plays a role in people expressing their beliefs on such doctrines. It's not very important to me though that we discuss this - so drop it whenever you feel like it. You said you believed some are predestined to eternal life. Let's call this group...
  8. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    I agree with your overall point. I'm just discussing semantics here - If my intention was evil, and if my intended act was unsuccessful, then you should not be saying that "I did good" at all. Of course, the end result is beneficial in that it contains no harm - but that's where we need to...
  9. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    Since there's ambiguity here, let me clarify what I mean whenever I refer to the term 'law' - that way you could simply read without going through the trouble of constructing assumptions. Kindly bear with the slightly long post. There are at least 3 usages of the word 'law' in scriptures -...
  10. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    Oh..I'm just trying to give an explanation of how I believe the doctrine of total depravity is true.. Inference 1: This is derived from what we just discussed - that not just in totality, but violation of any single part of the law during the successful performing of another part of the law...
  11. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    Stretching the argument further, couldn't God have then not foretold it, in order to do what's better for that man by not making him to be born, given God's foreknowledge of his own evil actions and their dire consequences?
  12. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    That's what I too replied when I first read this... The fictional argument continues to reveal new information... What if on that particular day, I had had enough of this tiresome beggar - that I decided to murder him with a bowl of poisoned food - but due to a series of unexpected...
  13. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    The_Epsicle , In case you've already heard this before, we can directly skip to the conclusions. If not, here's an argument that's fictional - There was a beggar down my street who kept asking me for food each day I went out - and I kept refusing, since I found the whole episode irritating...
  14. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    Haha...I'm sorry, the thread title stays. But yes, I guess I too will have to read up on Lutheran doctrines - or PM you later about them. We're free to observe, we're free to write - just let's not keep quiet for fear of offending someone. I guess most around here encourage good discussions -...
  15. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    A minor query on something not directly related to what you were discussing - could you elaborate on what the correlation is between our "loving God" and our "taking the step of faith" ? Are you implying that we begin to love God only in choosing to believe in Him - or am I misreading that?
  16. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    That isn't the valid conclusion from what I wrote, is it? When we're discussing something specific to the doctrine of total depravity, why should it be linked directly only to calvinism - when there are other denominations that hold on to this as well. What I wrote logically amounted to this -...
  17. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    I can relate to this. I see how it works at the larger level of final completion and delivery - But wouldn't this analogy then be likewise applicable to even during the very process of building? Let me explain - For argument's sake, allow me to extend your analogy where the contract has one...
  18. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    Hi. Well, we've spent quite a lot of posts discussing this, considering Scripture and consistent interpretations. Could you specifically point out which part of Scripture that's been cited here or which particular inference raised on this thread you disagree with and why - that way, we could...
  19. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    While I do acknowledge this earlier point raised in the OP is not yet concluded upon, I'd still like to begin discussing the next point - Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. I have heard evangelists lead people to the sinner's...
  20. I

    The stumbling blocks of reformed doctrines

    Well, I wish I had some way to go back to the OP and edit it stating I personally do not ask this question myself and that I am merely playing devil's advocate(I wish they called this rhetoric device something else) - to show that God is indeed not unjust in doing so, as some happen to believe...
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