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  1. Alfred Persson

    When Christ obtained "eternal redemption" He saved everyone who believes from the foundation of the world

    Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal (166 αἰώνιος aionios) redemption. (Heb. 9:12 NKJ) 166 αἰώνιος aionios {ahee-o'-nee-os} Meaning: 1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always...
  2. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    It just occurred to me the three categories of people are manifest in Christ's parable. The Thoroughly Wicked are in verse 15. As God does NOT Reprobate or predestine who is "thoroughly wicked" some of them appear for a time among the "Middling People" (vs. 16-17) but their hearts are "stony...
  3. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    Perhaps I misunderstood your position. In Post #49 You cited FastFreddy0 approvingly: This statement does not address whether or not you are "putting the cart before the horse". In other words it does not address which comes first logically: "saving faith" or "regeneration". The verse you quote...
  4. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    Last first. I disagree, Jesus is not talking to those "few names...who shall walk with Me in white" (Rev. 3:4). These "FEW" are the elect whose names were written in the book of life from the founding of the world cannot be blotted out from the book of life. They are predestined to be conformed...
  5. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    Why aren't you telling that to Dave? Re post #51, I know its not the same thing.
  6. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    Who said everyone's name is in the book of life? Not me. Beast worshippers names were never in it precisely as the two scriptures you cite, say. Only those predestined for salvation from the foundation of the world, are in it "from the foundation of the world". Their names can't be blotted...
  7. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    That's something else. This isn't a count, its a list of saved people. Names are in it from the foundation of the world, the names of the Elect. Therefore, adding names later indicates the existence of people who weren't "selected at the foundation of the world, but later hence their names are...
  8. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    In answer, I question the logic of your premise. Just as I asked you how could someone "come" who had already "come" No one can come to Me unless the Fathr who sent Me already had him come to me... How can the text read: Looking unto Jesus the AUTHOR and AUTHOR of our faith. You argue...
  9. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    Pardon my butting in: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn. 6:44 NKJ) If one cannot be drawn to Christ unless they have been regenerated by Christ, the text makes no sense. Then it says No one can come to Me unless the...
  10. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    Its scriptural. How else do you explain the books open on Judgment Day, where names can be written into or blotted out of the Book of life. That people are saved on Judgment Day is explicitly stated by the prophet Daniel (Dan. 12:2) Jesus Christ (John 5:28-29) and His apostle Peter (Acts...
  11. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    Nothing above invalidates free will. The Arminian/Calvin construct causes the confusion. God does predestine the Elect, but they excercised their free will choice to love God "when they awoke" in God's Omniscience. That happened before the foundation of the world, and these who loved God...
  12. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    That interpretation is impossible. Context emphasises "everyone in the world who believes", implying "some" went from unbelief to belief: 14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 "that whoever believes in Him should not perish but...
  13. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    Perhaps. Waltar Martin wasn't a fan of Roman Catholics, he called it apostate backslidden. https://www.apprising.org/2008/10/12/dr-walter-martin-speaks-on-the-roman-catholic-church/ I don't recall the study Title or who did it and how, but Walter Martin was citing it to defeat the argument the...
  14. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    If my memory is accurate the late Walter Martin reported Seminary students concluded Protestant and Catholic beliefrs were in 70% agreement overall. It was much higher when only what is taught in scripture was compared. Near 90%. Although that seems too high, it doesn't mean everyone applies the...
  15. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    Not irrelevant. Some of the most effective enemies of Christ became enemies because God was portrayed as Sovereignly selecting those whom He would bless, and those whom He would curse, without any consideration about those invovlved at all. In other words, God was depicted as unloving, unjust...
  16. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    I added it only because you did, in effect using your own terms. In literture, when asked for belief on xyz, it goes without adding "are you believing by your own free will choice?" "Libertarian free will" does not have to be added. It was only because you did. As for why some believe and...
  17. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    I don't agree. Many desire foods that would make them fat, but use their free will and discipline themselves to be skinny. Etc. Free Will's existence is implied by God's command we choose whom we will serve. Otherwise God is a fraudster. Therefore, your arguments against the existence of free...
  18. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    We are in agreement. I can only add this. God could not predestine everyone be saved because that would violate the free will of those who desire evil. Nor could God create a world where evil was not permitted. The inhabitants would conclude they were mere robots and "love" just an illusion...
  19. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    If someone promised everyone "xyz" could be theirs if they did "abc", but only those selected would receive it, they would prosecuted for fraud: "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that...
  20. Alfred Persson

    God's plan is so perfect, so complex, shortsighted Arminians and Calvinists just can't fathom it.

    I never claimed our free will is truly free of impediment NOW in our fallen state. I claimed at the moment God reveals the light of Christ He enables our free will to be "libertarian free will". That it subsequently drops back into its fallen state is irrelevant immaterial and incompetent...
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