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You missed something: the CONTEXT of the first seal. Does the context show the timing? Of course it does. Rev 5 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which...

All of the above is total myth. PAUL originated the pretrib rapture. Plain and simple. Did his message get lose over the centuries? It is possible. But my guess is, every century had people that believed the truth: Jesus comes first to GET His church, then comes about 7 years later WITH His...

Exactly. John is telling us that at the time of the rapture, people will be dying for their testimony around the world. Many are confused with this, because they are sure Jesus put a TITLE on the last half of the week: "great tribulation." But Jesus did NOT, and these two words together do not...

Hmmm. The 144,000 are SEALED, not "called." Coop

Perhaps you would care to expound on why the Holy Spirit had John write of the huge crowd in heaven, in chapter 7, rather than in chapter 19? Perhaps you would care to expound on why in verse 6 of 2 Thes. 2 Paul wrote, "and now you know?" Why did Paul write three VERY similar phrases in 2 thes...

Brother Andrew, Actually, I got to meet the brother Andrew that used to take bibles into very dangerous places! But I doubt if you are him. I know you believe in your heart that pretrib thinking is something that must be repented from. But it is certainly not the truth of the bible. To know...

Somehow you have written an entire post, with much scripture, and I am still not sure what you were trying to say. Were you hinting that there are some "IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE" here on this forum that distort God's word? I already suspected that. Yes, just a few verses after the...

Strange, I was SURE the SEALING of the 144,000 was found in Rev. chapter 7, and the RAPTURE (or the effects of it) of the 144,000 are found in chapter 14. I don't think Joel had a CLUE he was talking about the 144,000 of the 70th week. I don't think anyone else does either. Coop

WHO are these? The are all descendants of Jacob. WHERE are they? They are around the throne in heaven. ........Please note "BEFORE the throne and BEFORE the four living creatures and the 24 elders. WHAT are they here? They are REDEEMED from the earth. They are in heaven. They are NOT the...

No, it is not that I have any kind of fear. It is that I understand first, the character of God. And second, the verses that pertain to the rapture. Sorry, but the intent of 1 Thes. 4 & 5 IS a pretrib rapture. And it is made quite clear in 2 Thes. 2. You are mistaken, not understanding the...

Veteran, your last paragraph is very good, and right on. It seems many just overlook the fact that all the former kingdoms exist at the same time, at the end. It is my personal belief that the IRON is to represent the children of the ancient kingdoms, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, while the...

Sorry, Veteran, but I don't believe ANY of this. Can the elect be deceived? You missed one important verse: 13:8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. So are those that love Jesus...

And that is where you and I differ, at least to some extent. I am convinced that God will not abandon His own, but will do what He can to help them survive, where ever they live. It is a myth that God will call Christians from around the world to somewhere in Israel for protection. It is...

Thank God, someone has finally caught on to what Daniel and Revelation have told us: the saints are to be overcome. I have said many times it will be WORSE than a Jew living in Berlin in 1943. Truely, it could not be much worse, but this time it will be on a FAR BIGGER scale; perhaps nearly...

HOw much better to just go with what is written, instead of guessing, or reading with preconceived glasses. Guysmith, At least you recognize the 144,000 as Jews or Hebrews. However, you are missing one point about them; they are FIRSTfruits, meaning, they are going to get to heaven AHEAD of...

The group in 7:9 are not martyrs. They are the raptured church. John sees them in heaven before the 70th week even begins. Of course, God will seal the 144,000 for protection, BEFORE the time they will NEED protection (i.e. 70th week and day of the Lord). That only makes sense, and it is exactly...

Can we please follow what the bible really says, instead of man's ideas and theories? WHERE are those in the great multitude of Rev 7:9? 9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne...

Absolutely not true! I have known all along and said all along, it was the voice of a great multitude. All I was saying is, I finally see why you might think it was not. But the bottom line, is, the context PROVES beyond any doubt that this is the voice of a multitude of people, NOT the voice of...

John did not see the great multitude, so he included "as it were." But again,the context PROVES it is a great multitude. Verse 1 proves it is a great multitude, and verse 2 confirms it. Can you possibly understand that millions of people do make the sound of a great multitude? Why is this so...

All I asking is: can you read simple English? Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven , saying , Alleluia ; Salvation , and glory , and honour , and power , unto the Lord our God: rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged...