As I read through all 6 pages of bickering and twisting scripture to “prove†the point, I am amazed that no one has even questioned where and when this “rapture†idea came from. It seems it is taken “as Gospel†and no one dares question it. So here it is in a nutshell, and I pray that you research for yourself, if nothing else than to “prove me wrong†so that God may open your eyes.
The concept of a “rapture†did not exist until 1830, when Margaret MacDonald got sick and had “visions†of a 2-phase return of Messiah. John Darby (the father of dispensationalism) heard of this and he began teaching this new doctrine. Then, Edward Irving adopted this thinking, which ultimately led to his breaking away from the Presbyterian church in 1832. His followers established themselves as the Catholic Apostolic Church and is considered by many scholars to be the birth of Pentecostalism.
I agree that visions can come from God, but it is always wise to be cautious in such matters. Near the same time Macdonald was receiving her visions in Scotland, Joseph Smith was seeing his visions in America that brought the Mormon doctrines to the world. John Wilson also had his dreams that started the false teaching of British-Israelism. Not long afterwards, Ellen G. White received her visions that resulted in many Seventh Day Adventist teachings. Look long and hard at this and you will see that all these people supposedly received visions and new doctrines from God that were
very much at odds with one another and contrary to biblical teachings. These "visions" bring to mind the warning that God gave to Moses in Deut 13:1-3
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke unto you, saying, ‘let us go after other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them’; you shall not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord proves [tests]
you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
So that said, I would like to comment on some of your posts:
The bema seat is the seat of the Judge (Christ) that gives out rewards, this seat is not a salvation judgement seat. As the word trinity is not found in the bible the phrase bema is also not found in our bible but eluded to in 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, The ideal of bema seat is from the Olympians where at the end of the race the rewards where handed out. You will find the word bema seat all throughout Christian preaching. Believe I am not the first to use this phrase. The word for “Judgment seat†in the Greek is “Bemaâ€
Except the Olympians got it from the Hebrew word Bamah, which means “high place, stage, mountain or alter,†and is found throughout the “Old†Testament. This Bema (Be’mah) seat is an elevated platform or chair made of either wood or stone that is placed in the middle of a synagogue on which a person reads directly from the Torah and Prophets on the Sabbath day. (It is where the "church" derived the pulpit. ) While in this seat, a person is permitted only to READ scripture. He is NEVER allowed to interpret or comment while in this seat. It was often referred to as “Moses’ seat†since the Torah (Teachings) was written by Moses, as instructed by God. It is the same seat on which the righteous kings and prophets of Israel would read the Torah, to bring the people back to God. Messiah even refers to it in Matt 23:1-2
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. Messiah was telling the people to obey what the Pharisees told them to do
WHILE THEY SAT IN THAT SEAT, meaning
WHILE THEY READ FROM THE TORAH. He then warns them/us not to follow the Pharisees when they get
OUT of that seat = when they begin to comment, interpret, add to, or take away from what was just read.
So the Be’mah (Seat) of Messiah is the Great Judgment that we shall all attend with the Torah as our witness, and we shall “
receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.â€
Question for you? truthfully, why do post tribers have such a huge problem with pre trib. I never worry about a post triber being lost in the scriptures, or that they are not saved just because they don't believe like I do... why is that, post triber have such a problem with pre tribers...ummm
My concern is two-fold.
1. They might lose their faith in God, because they would not accept a God that will put them through such misery.
2. Those looking for the easy way out will be even further deceived into taking the mark of the beast in order to feed themselves and their families. They will take this mark without question by saying in their heart, “This cannot be the mark of the beast because the rapture hasn’t happened yet.†By taking this mark they are selling their birthright to the Kingdom, just as Esau sold his birthright, and are forever damned. So indeed, looking at it from this perspective, it truly IS a matter of salvation.
Now the Great White Throne jugement is for non- christians. I will not be there. and that is at the end of the 1000 yr mil.
I disagree. I believe we shall ALL be there to witness the destruction of the wicked. The last verses of Rev 20 speak of the Great White Throne Judgment. Then in chapter 21:4, after the New Jerusalem and Temple descend from heaven, “
God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Why is everyone crying? IMOHO it is because everyone saw at least one, possibly most, or even all of their loved ones, friends, or family members cast into eternal torment. For Messiah Himself said that the
gate to destruction is wide and easy and the gate that leads to life is narrow and hard. Many are called: few are chosen.
The Tribulation is not the wrath of god it is the mercy of God. He patiently suffers long waiting for our (the human race) repentance.
Of all the prophetic scripture that refer to the Tribulation, not a single one of them backs up this claim. It is all about God’s fury over His creation being disobedient to Him. The human race as a whole would NEVER repent without His righteous intervention.
