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The doctrine of ECT in hell means that there is no need of salvation...

I don't like the new look, it is different from the old look.

Were you destroyed in that head on collision?

Same tired arguments that have been refuted a thousand times before. Do you see perish in John 3:16? So why do you believe the ungodly will not perish?

I use the word the Bible uses, destroyed. The punishment is destruction. It is eternal. Since they will have been destroyed, they will not continue to be alive in order to be eternally tormented. Eternal punishment does not demand ongoing punishment. You demand ongoing conscious punishment. The...

What the??? How on earth does someone who is about to be totally destroyed NOT NEED salvation??? This is bizarre beyond belief!

Just use the word that the Bible uses, "destruction". :thumb

I agree that if one ceases to exist there can be no torment. Their punishment isn't torment though. Their eternal punishment is being eternally destroyed. If a person has been destroyed they do not continue to exist as if they had not been destroyed.

You are incorrect, sir. "The gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord". Romans 6:23

You are incorrect sir, Here is John 3:15 and 16: So must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

That isn't logical. A person needs salvation in order to receive eternal life. If a person is about to be destroyed, they most certainly need salvation, in order to NOT BE DESTROYED!

Apollumi, apoletai ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ’ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον. "that all who believe in him will not perish but will have eternal life" If you look back at my posts, you will notice that I never use the word "annihilation" just to avoid this kind of confusion. Peter says...

I've already seen that. It isn't very good.

Since you say that you don't believe that not having eternal life is just as good as having eternal, then you must also agree that losing out on eternal life is a punishment. An eternal punishment, even if those who lose out on eternal life are not tortured alive forever. So since the loss of...

Because Luthesetai contains the idea of something broken up, dissolved, that sort of thing. It makes perfect sense to use this word for the destruction of the earth. Someone writing in Greek about a person being destroyed so that they no longer exist wouldn't use the word luthesetai. In verse 7...

FreeGrace, your responses to me indicate that you do not believe that being truly dead is any sort of punishment. You have not proven that NOT having eternal life is just as good as HAVING eternal life, so I have to reject your argument. When you figure out that life is better than death, then...

Free, I think that rather than attempt to defend the faith against "anti-ECTers", it would be better to work to understand what the scriptures actually say, and what they don't say. People get so caught up in defending their own doctrine that they seem to leave the scriptures behind. This is not...

I believe what the Bible says about this, and the Nicene Creed. That is: We require resurrection to life in order to become alive again after death. Unless a person is resurrected, they are not alive. They remain dead until the resurrection. Jesus Christ is the resurrection and the life. Jesus...

The third overused argument for eternal conscious torment is of course Revelation 20:10. A person only has to read Revelation 20:10 to see that it doesn't say that the wicked go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever. Here it is: "and the devil who had deceived them...

While I am on the topic of overused arguments for the final punishment being eternal conscious torment, another passage that doesn't work is Luke 16:24 "I am in anguish in these flames". This parable is not about the final punishment, since the rich man's brothers are still alive. If this were...