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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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tim-from-pa
Member
Re: Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)
As a Christian, I believe that those Christians who are aware of prophecy put brakes on such forcing of a "mark". Until the church gets "taken out of the way" (2Thess. 2:7), this will take a lot to spread.
Once there are no believers around any longer, then the Antichrist and his system can enforce such a mandate because the remaining people will be too spiritually illiterate, obtuse, and ignorant to see the signs in Revelation, and indeed, they do not know them because they've been making fun of Christians all their lives and cared less about learning any of this stuff. So, they will just mindlessly and submissively take the "mark" or chip or whatever it is and seal their condemnation like walking willfully through an open door to hell. Trust me, when the time comes, these laws will be repealed.
As a Christian, I believe that those Christians who are aware of prophecy put brakes on such forcing of a "mark". Until the church gets "taken out of the way" (2Thess. 2:7), this will take a lot to spread.
Once there are no believers around any longer, then the Antichrist and his system can enforce such a mandate because the remaining people will be too spiritually illiterate, obtuse, and ignorant to see the signs in Revelation, and indeed, they do not know them because they've been making fun of Christians all their lives and cared less about learning any of this stuff. So, they will just mindlessly and submissively take the "mark" or chip or whatever it is and seal their condemnation like walking willfully through an open door to hell. Trust me, when the time comes, these laws will be repealed.
Vic C.
Member
Re: Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
If we are not around for the hour of temptation, then who are those above who were beheaded and why the warning below?
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
How is it some believe we are spared from persecution by Satan while the Apostles and Christian martyrs weren't? Why is it that God only promises protection from His Wrath?
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
If we are not around for the hour of temptation, then who are those above who were beheaded and why the warning below?
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
How is it some believe we are spared from persecution by Satan while the Apostles and Christian martyrs weren't? Why is it that God only promises protection from His Wrath?
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Vic C.
Member
Re: Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)
Hi C 4 C and welcome!
I realize you are new here and haven't spent much time reading our End Times Forum. Most 123 members know I am not a believer in pretribulation or a future seven year period that one could even call the "tribulation period". Because you haven't read much of my posts and don't have a clearcut idea of my beliefs or how they've progressed since I joined here, I will post a brief outline for you. I don't wish to derail your thread any longer than needed. 8-)
I used to believe in a pretribulation rapture. Then a few years ago I started to study pre wrath, which basically states that the Great tribulation isn't seven years and is comprised of two separate events; Persecution of the saints by Satan and God's Wrath. Pre wrath teaches the GT begins around the middle of the "week". In other words, they teach the 1st, 2nd, 3rd. seal is in the first half of the week. The 4th. seal marks the midpoint and the beginning of the GT and the sixth seal announces the Wrath (Rev 6:17). This is where they place the harpazo and rightly so, in my Biblical opinion. (1 Thess 5:9)
http://www.solagroup.org/articles/endtimes/et_0019.html
The PreWrath doctrinal theory is very sound for a premillennial position, but then I ran across Newton and the beliefs of some of the Reformers. They believe, for good reason too, that the 70th. week has come and gone, in the first century, no less. 8-) I believe this and also believe I can not find any concrete Biblical proof of a future 70th. week without some assumptions and concessions made, which I don't like to do.
Newton, in his findings, even sees a 3 1/2 year period in Daniel outside of 9:24. Newton attributes it to the Jewish revolt in 67AD and the eventual destruction of Jerusalem and it's temple and the Diaspora in 70AD. That all makes sense if you consider Jesus did predict this in Matthew 24.
But I believe Daniel is twofold, especially that 3 1/2 year period Newton alludes to in his commentaries. I can put the second half of the PreWrath position right into this 1 1/2 year period. ... and since there is no predefined "rapture" theory that fits my studies, this works out well for me. :-D I also believe the harpazo may not actually be a "rapture" in it's contemporary understanding; I believe it to actually be the "transformation" of believers from corruptible to incorruptible beings, with them staying and the unrighteous the ones removed, that is, whoever is left unprotected and living after the Wrath. You know the Verses for all the above and can probably surmise which ones I would refer to, or, but they're there. 8-)
So, I am part historicism, part PreWrath. ;-) Phew, sorry it was sooooo long. 8-)
Hi C 4 C and welcome!
I realize you are new here and haven't spent much time reading our End Times Forum. Most 123 members know I am not a believer in pretribulation or a future seven year period that one could even call the "tribulation period". Because you haven't read much of my posts and don't have a clearcut idea of my beliefs or how they've progressed since I joined here, I will post a brief outline for you. I don't wish to derail your thread any longer than needed. 8-)
I used to believe in a pretribulation rapture. Then a few years ago I started to study pre wrath, which basically states that the Great tribulation isn't seven years and is comprised of two separate events; Persecution of the saints by Satan and God's Wrath. Pre wrath teaches the GT begins around the middle of the "week". In other words, they teach the 1st, 2nd, 3rd. seal is in the first half of the week. The 4th. seal marks the midpoint and the beginning of the GT and the sixth seal announces the Wrath (Rev 6:17). This is where they place the harpazo and rightly so, in my Biblical opinion. (1 Thess 5:9)
http://www.solagroup.org/articles/endtimes/et_0019.html
The PreWrath doctrinal theory is very sound for a premillennial position, but then I ran across Newton and the beliefs of some of the Reformers. They believe, for good reason too, that the 70th. week has come and gone, in the first century, no less. 8-) I believe this and also believe I can not find any concrete Biblical proof of a future 70th. week without some assumptions and concessions made, which I don't like to do.
Newton, in his findings, even sees a 3 1/2 year period in Daniel outside of 9:24. Newton attributes it to the Jewish revolt in 67AD and the eventual destruction of Jerusalem and it's temple and the Diaspora in 70AD. That all makes sense if you consider Jesus did predict this in Matthew 24.
But I believe Daniel is twofold, especially that 3 1/2 year period Newton alludes to in his commentaries. I can put the second half of the PreWrath position right into this 1 1/2 year period. ... and since there is no predefined "rapture" theory that fits my studies, this works out well for me. :-D I also believe the harpazo may not actually be a "rapture" in it's contemporary understanding; I believe it to actually be the "transformation" of believers from corruptible to incorruptible beings, with them staying and the unrighteous the ones removed, that is, whoever is left unprotected and living after the Wrath. You know the Verses for all the above and can probably surmise which ones I would refer to, or, but they're there. 8-)
So, I am part historicism, part PreWrath. ;-) Phew, sorry it was sooooo long. 8-)
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Vic C.
Member
Re: Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)
Hey, nor problem C4C, I take no offense whatsoever.
C 4 C,
I started a new thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=31473
Hey, nor problem C4C, I take no offense whatsoever.
C 4 C,
I started a new thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=31473
tim-from-pa
Member
Re: Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)
There are many saints in the Bible. There are Old testament Saints, New Testament saints (the church), those saved during the tribulation from the 144,000 preaching and the two witnesses. There's the manchild (the 144.000) and so forth. The saints in Revelation are those who found Christ during the Tribulation. Likewise, there are many "catching aways" (raptures in Christian jargon).
For the church, I believe its before the Tribulation. For the 144,000 and the two witnesses, its midway. This is why you have so many camps debating the timing of the rapture---- they see only one facet of the circumstances---- they ALL have an element of truth.
I think both the bible and the apocryphal books make it clear that Christ will return with His saints. Those who became saints but killed during the tribulation will also be raised afterwards, but the rest beforehand.
I found logic problems with the church being raptured after the Tribulation. If we consider Christ's return, we must ask where each person goes. At His return, there is a sheep and goat judgment. Goats go to eternal fire. Sheep inherit the Kingdom. If they were raptured at the second Coming, there would be no live-blooded people left on this earth to enjoy the Kingdom with Christ and His saints. But the bible clearly teaches there are real people here that will have kids. These are the living saints alive after the Tribulation that were not killed (probably not a great deal population-wise). Their portion is to be called into the Kingdom. In addition, if we meet the Lord in the air when He comes to earth, then that's what I call a "U-turn" rapture. There are other things I can mention, but in all, one can see there are some logical problems with a post-Trib rapture. In a nutshell, if the saints come back with Christ, that presupposes they were with Him to begin with. And there are clear scriptures that say that the saints will come back with Christ.
BTW, I'm one of the few "British-Israelites" that believe in a pre-Trib rapture of the church. The mainliners hate me because of my BI doctrine, and the BI'ers don't like the rapture doctrine (some say there is none). So I learned to lean on the Lord, what His word teaches and don't worry about fitting in with any crowd on one side or the other.
There are many saints in the Bible. There are Old testament Saints, New Testament saints (the church), those saved during the tribulation from the 144,000 preaching and the two witnesses. There's the manchild (the 144.000) and so forth. The saints in Revelation are those who found Christ during the Tribulation. Likewise, there are many "catching aways" (raptures in Christian jargon).
For the church, I believe its before the Tribulation. For the 144,000 and the two witnesses, its midway. This is why you have so many camps debating the timing of the rapture---- they see only one facet of the circumstances---- they ALL have an element of truth.
I think both the bible and the apocryphal books make it clear that Christ will return with His saints. Those who became saints but killed during the tribulation will also be raised afterwards, but the rest beforehand.
I found logic problems with the church being raptured after the Tribulation. If we consider Christ's return, we must ask where each person goes. At His return, there is a sheep and goat judgment. Goats go to eternal fire. Sheep inherit the Kingdom. If they were raptured at the second Coming, there would be no live-blooded people left on this earth to enjoy the Kingdom with Christ and His saints. But the bible clearly teaches there are real people here that will have kids. These are the living saints alive after the Tribulation that were not killed (probably not a great deal population-wise). Their portion is to be called into the Kingdom. In addition, if we meet the Lord in the air when He comes to earth, then that's what I call a "U-turn" rapture. There are other things I can mention, but in all, one can see there are some logical problems with a post-Trib rapture. In a nutshell, if the saints come back with Christ, that presupposes they were with Him to begin with. And there are clear scriptures that say that the saints will come back with Christ.
BTW, I'm one of the few "British-Israelites" that believe in a pre-Trib rapture of the church. The mainliners hate me because of my BI doctrine, and the BI'ers don't like the rapture doctrine (some say there is none). So I learned to lean on the Lord, what His word teaches and don't worry about fitting in with any crowd on one side or the other.
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Re: Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)
Praise the lord!!!
I am an RF Engineer working for Lexmark International on integrated RFID printer solutions. I too was talking to my friend about this. RFID tags consist of an inlay, which is the tag antenna and a microchip, that contains the N bit id of the tag.
Companies such as Avery Dennison and Impinj have developed inlays that are now composed of conducting ink or glue. It is said that a tag can contain a random number assigned to a person. The id is referenced to a database that stores all knowledge of that person.
The number of ids are 2^N, where n is a positive integer. Thats alot of ids. Basically, anything on this planet can be tagged. Soon comppanies and governments will relaize that tags are far cheaper and efficicent to maintain than debit/credit cards, paper money, checks and certificates.
It is said in revelations that we are to take the mark of the beast or his numer, six hundred and sixty-six. we will not be able to buy or sell w/o it. if the tag becomes fully integrated and enforced by say 2025...it will be very difficult if not impossible to barter for goods or implement commerce.
its an excellent way to bring the nations of this damned world under a single umbrella. my friend thinks though, it would have to be a rough, primitive tatoo. he believes that the world will be in or enter a "stone age" before the seven bowls or wrath are poured out.
in that case, it makes sense.
i dunno, thats a tough one.
Praise the lord!!!
I am an RF Engineer working for Lexmark International on integrated RFID printer solutions. I too was talking to my friend about this. RFID tags consist of an inlay, which is the tag antenna and a microchip, that contains the N bit id of the tag.
Companies such as Avery Dennison and Impinj have developed inlays that are now composed of conducting ink or glue. It is said that a tag can contain a random number assigned to a person. The id is referenced to a database that stores all knowledge of that person.
The number of ids are 2^N, where n is a positive integer. Thats alot of ids. Basically, anything on this planet can be tagged. Soon comppanies and governments will relaize that tags are far cheaper and efficicent to maintain than debit/credit cards, paper money, checks and certificates.
It is said in revelations that we are to take the mark of the beast or his numer, six hundred and sixty-six. we will not be able to buy or sell w/o it. if the tag becomes fully integrated and enforced by say 2025...it will be very difficult if not impossible to barter for goods or implement commerce.
its an excellent way to bring the nations of this damned world under a single umbrella. my friend thinks though, it would have to be a rough, primitive tatoo. he believes that the world will be in or enter a "stone age" before the seven bowls or wrath are poured out.
in that case, it makes sense.
i dunno, thats a tough one.
G
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Re: Radio Frequency Identification (RFID)
the problem i have is that in scriture it says that it will be a mark, a tattoo if you will. so a microchip is not a tattoo. but radio conductive ink/glue can be made into a tattoo such that anyone could buy/sell godds and services as if it were a debit card.
just think of barcodes but rather than operatin on lasers it operates on radio frequency.
and that is what would seem to convince me.
the problem i have is that in scriture it says that it will be a mark, a tattoo if you will. so a microchip is not a tattoo. but radio conductive ink/glue can be made into a tattoo such that anyone could buy/sell godds and services as if it were a debit card.
just think of barcodes but rather than operatin on lasers it operates on radio frequency.
and that is what would seem to convince me.