Growth “Accepted In The Beloved”

[gr8grace3]

I think of it like this.
Grace is the gift that just keeps on giving.
The Blood of Christ is the gift that just keeps on covering, keeps on pardoning.
Its as if you have an unlimited supply of forgiveness in a heavenly bank account, and every time you mess up, every time you sin, every time you blow it, every time you fall down, ......its only means that you just took out another deposit from your unlimited supply of forgiveness that is what God has provided for free that lasts for all eternity.

I like that. It is completely foreign to our natural mind and is the complete opposite of religion(keep making your deposits).

Most will say that this is a license to sin. But if we live it, it truly is transforming............but most of all, it glorifies Him and all the work He has done for us.

 

[Kidron]

I like that. It is completely foreign to our natural mind and is the complete opposite of religion(keep making your deposits).

Most will say that this is a license to sin. But if we live it, it truly is transforming............but most of all, it glorifies Him and all the work He has done for us.

When a Christian gets the revelation that Grace is endless,.... it lasts as long as God lives.....then they are able to relax and stop trying to earn what God has already provided for free > because he loves them.
Also, a Christian has to understand that God is quite intelligent.
Oh yeah
He would never provide a (pardon for sin) solution for acceptance into his family that a human can mess up and lose.
What would be the point of Jesus dying that horrible death only so that we could mess up the pardon, as every single one of us would mess it up, eventually.
So, once we realize that this great gift, this Amazing Grace, is something that God provided which we dont control by our works or lack of, then we are able to understand and enjoy the Joy of Salvation and start functioning powerfully within the Kingdom of God as we should.

 

[gr8grace3]

When a Christian gets the revelation that Grace is endless,.... it lasts as long as God lives.....then they are able to relax and stop trying to earn what God has already provided for free > because he loves them.
Also, a Christian has to understand that God is quite intelligent.
Oh yeah
He would never provide a (pardon for sin) solution for acceptance into his family that a human can mess up and lose.
What would be the point of Jesus dying that horrible death only so that we could mess up the pardon, as every single one of us would mess it up, eventually.
So, once we realize that this great gift, this Amazing Grace, is something that God provided which we dont control by our works or lack of, then we are able to understand and enjoy the Joy of Salvation and start functioning powerfully within the Kingdom of God as we should.

Well said Brother. Ive said it many times........a relaxed mental attitude. And we get that from His grace and growing in that Grace. None of us can put into words how big His grace really is.

Just to see another Brother write this is a blessing for us all. I don't post on this forum to show how stupid I am. I post on this forum to try to help people to get to the point that they write a post like yours above. Every brother and sister should have and live in this freedom.

 

[Runner]

I would describe a Christian attitude towards sin as being conscious (which awareness tends to heighten its effect) of the indwelling sin source (old man) and also of the grace of God within the believer that exceeds it (Rom 5:20). Being conscious of sin is not the same as having a conscience of sin, or "an evil conscience" (Heb 10:22).

One of the primary growth truths is that which is being aware of the Enemies devices (2Cor 2:11), one of which I believe is his attempted use of our sinful nature against us, which of course cannot prevail because of God's grace that exceeds it (Rom 5:20). (Gal 5:17).

Though the Spirit of God ensures that the sin source does not rule the believer (Gal 5:17), this does not negate the effect of the continued attempts of it being used against us, which God always uses to strengthen our faith (Jam 1:3; 1Pet 1:7).

We may all be in "violent agreement," as one of my colleagues likes to say.

I certainly agree that remaining conscious of the propensity to sin and being aware and contrite when one inevitably stumbles is a valuable part of the Christian walk. Being saved isn't, as Paul reminds us, a license to thoughtlessly run amuck in our newfound freedom. Awareness of our stumbling reminds us that "apart from Me, you can do nothing," while contrition puts the Holy Spirit back on the throne of our lives (to borrow a phrase from my Campus Crusade days). I only balk at any suggestion that continual repentance is necessary for salvation or that we should mourn and bewail our loathsomeness at the expense of the joy, thanksgiving and praise that should flow from salvation. It appeared to me that Macintosh was suggesting that even a Christian must continually bemoan his loathsomeness in order to remind himself how magnificent God's gift of salvation is (and I do frequently hear preachers emphasize what dirty rags we all are). The magnificence of God's gift should obviously be the subject of much joy, praise and thanksgiving, but I don't think "continually repenting of my loathsomeness" is part of the equation.

Also, as I said, even for a non-believer I don't believe repentance requires self-loathing. It requires an acknowledgment that he or she is a created being living in a created universe who is wholly dependent on the Creator for his or her existence and who is completely unworthy, apart from God's grace, to enter into the kingdom of God's transcendent holiness. If "unworthiness" were substituted for "vileness" and similar terms in peoples' thinking, it would probably be quite liberating.

 

[Kidron]

I only balk at any suggestion that continual repentance is necessary for salvation or that we should mourn and bewail our loathsomeness at the expense of the joy, thanksgiving and praise that should flow from salvation. It appeared to me that Macintosh was suggesting that even a Christian must continually bemoan his loathsomeness in order to remind himself how magnificent God's gift of salvation is (and I do frequently hear preachers emphasize what dirty rags we all are). The magnificence of God's gift should obviously be the subject of much joy, praise and thanksgiving, but I don't think "continually repenting of my loathsomeness" is part of the equation.

.

What you think Macintosh "appeared" to be suggesting, is in fact exactly what he wrote, and this is because its exactly what he believes and preaches.


K

 

[Kidron]

Every brother and sister should have and live in this freedom.

Amen ^^^^^^

 

[Runner]

As I mentioned on another thread, I am a refugee from the "other" Christian Forums. I am interested in intelligent discussion, not "theology wars," lectures and name-calling. Unfortunately, I have yet to find the Internet forum where intelligent discussion does not quickly descend into name-calling. One person's "terrible theology" is another person's "straight and narrow path." Christianity has room for many paths. What in heaven's name does it mean when these various forums are advertised as "Not a Debate Forum"? In any event, I am now a refugee from these Christian Forums because I have better uses of my time. Adios.

 

[reba]

closed for moderator review..

 

[AirDancer]

This thread is re-opened.

However, there shall be NO debate involved. Nor shall there be any negative comments made about other members.

We MUST remember this is a Christian forum. We each know how to behave as a Christian in our off-line lives. It's a necessity that we definitely behave as Christians in this 'anonymous' form of communication online.

 

[Runner]

This thread is re-opened.

However, there shall be NO debate involved. Nor shall there be any negative comments made about other members.

We MUST remember this is a Christian forum. We each know how to behave as a Christian in our off-line lives. It's a necessity that we definitely behave as Christians in this 'anonymous' form of communication online.

I always have to remind myself that there are 35,000+ Christian denominations. I doubt seriously that Jesus is going to say "‘I never knew you; depart from Me" (Matt. 7:23) to anyone because the fine points of that person's theology were wrong. This is another way (in my view) that we fail to acknowledge how radically liberating Jesus' message really is - salvation isn't just for the few who get everything right in terms of theology; it's for those who acknowledge their need for salvation. Convincing myself that only I am right, or that it is my mission to harangue others into my "correct" way of thinking, is another way to drain the joy out of the Christian walk. I am far from being (as one example among many possible ones) a Young Earth Creationist, yet I admit they could be right, at least some evidence supports their position, and many serious scholars hold this position.

One very enlightening experience for me, which I have mentioned on another thread, has been reading many of the scholarly "multi-view" books (Four Views of the Atonement was my first). They show that Christianity can accommodate extremely diverse views even on core doctrines such as the Atonement and that very serious Christian thinkers can hold extremely different views. I seldom finish one of the essays without thinking, "Yeah, that's a reasonable position. I can see how he arrived at it." Then I move on to an opposing essay and think the same thing.

Insofar as the topic of this thread is concerned, it does seem to me that excessive dwelling on one's "loathsomeness" is unnecessary and potentially unhealthy, but there are undoubtedly some for whom this is the most effective way to stay on the path. One biography states of C. H. Macintosh, "It is said that he had a mild and gracious spirit, avoiding conflict as far as possible, and that he had a deep devotion and love not only for Christian believers, but for lost souls." Surely this is what really counts.

There must be an extremely fine line between "discussion" and "debate," and I'm not sure I could distinguish one from the other. But it is probably in disparaging others and their views that we cross the line. I may be a "New Member" here, but I am extremely experienced on Internet forums, and they do seem to have a capacity to bring out the worst in many people (including me, although hopefully less now than 15 years ago). "I disagree because ..." to me is debate. "You are a dope and your position is ridiculous because ..." to me goes beyond debate. I can tell you that in legal filings and arguments - the ultimate arena where winning is all that counts - judges are very sensitive to disparagement and personal attacks and regard them as a tacit admission that your own position is weak.

 

[Kidron]

Insofar as the topic of this thread is concerned, it does seem to me that excessive dwelling on one's "loathsomeness" is unnecessary and potentially unhealthy, .
There must be an extremely fine line between "discussion" and "debate," and I'm not sure I could distinguish one from the other. But it is probably in disparaging others and their views that we cross the line.
.

Yes, you are correct.
To spend "excessive dwelling on one's loathsomeness", is certainly not conducive to being filled with the "Joy of the Lord" and has nothing to do with New Testament theology regarding "Grace".. or being a "new creature in Christ"., or "having the mind of Christ", as obviously Jesus didnt go about repenting and confessing, and we have him inside us.... etc.
And regarding discussion and debate......i find that the line between the two is much clarified when both parties answer specific questions and stay on topic.

And ....
speaking in an instructive tho negative way regarding dealing with someone's personal Theology , is not the same as "disparaging the person".
After all, if you put it out there in public on a forum, then you are expected to deal with other points of view.
If you cant, then be really quiet.

finally....
As an analogy....lets say you have 55 tattoos, numerous body piercings, and wear a pink cap in public.
If this is so, you are inviting commentary.....and i might tell you that i dont like your cap, your tats, or your pierced eyebrows and tongue.
I dont have to like them, i just have to accept your "style".
However, i love you, because you are a brother.

 

[netchaplain]

I would like to extend and open commendation to the Amin/Mod workers for maintaining "decency and order" (1Cor 14:40). Thanks for your consistency and for the manner in which you orchestrate this site, which I find to be in a kind way so that none can be accused of not caring for everyone that posts.

I would also like to recommend we all take primary notice concerning posting in a kind manner, for without this being an important objective (Eph 4:32) the post is entirely useless and noneffective.

 

[netchaplain]

A couple examples of persistent humility:

"Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He shall lift you up" (James 4:10). I see this as a directive which is in force as long as you are "in the sight of the Lord."

The believer is to continually "be clothed with humility" (1Pet 5:5). I believe the term "clothed" is in the sense of permanent garb.

Concerning repentance, I believe it is no longer needed if you no longer sin, and that the sins one commits are continued if not repented of.

 

[netchaplain]

where in the NT do the scriptures tell believers to continue in an "attitude of repentance"

Revelation 2:5,16, 21, 22; 3:3, 19. These are all Christians whom the Lord will eventually cause to repent, because "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten."

There are teachings in Scripture that are to be inferred (as the Spirit teaches us), of which does not require direct Scriptural reference, i.e. if we sin (if we think we no longer sin we're still at square A), we need to confess (admit) it to God when He shows us (since a believer does not sin willfully, it is often done without awareness). The inference here which confession reveals requires turning from (repent) the sin while confessing it. No sin, no confession required, thus nothing to repent of; which is an unattainable condition--until "the redemption of our body."

 

[Kidron]

Revelation 2:5,16, 21, 22; 3:3, 19. These are all Christians whom the Lord will eventually cause to repent, because "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten."

There are teachings in Scripture that are to be inferred (as the Spirit teaches us), of which does not require direct Scriptural reference, i.e. if we sin (if we think we no longer sin we're still at square A), we need to confess (admit) it to God when He shows us (since a believer does not sin willfully, it is often done without awareness). The inference here which confession reveals requires turning from (repent) the sin while confessing it. No sin, no confession required, thus nothing to repent of; which is an unattainable condition--until "the redemption of our body."

-
Listen.
I can go to Hebrews 12:6 and show you where God chastens every believer, to bring about the "fruit of righteousness".
edited rudness



K

 

[netchaplain]

- their bible tells them they have the Mind of Christ, they are "in Christ", and they are to be filled with the Joy of the Lord, and are to operate in the fullness of the Spirit.

The mind of Christ and everything the believer has in Him is solely in regards to our new man, but God still uses the old man in our lives "for good" (Rom 8:28); for when God at times shows us the "flesh" (sinful nature or "old man") working in our lives, and that the Spirit opposes it (Gal 5:17), our faith is strengthened by the continuance of manifesting that the old man is not ruling us (all credit to the Spirit of course).

 

[reba]

Closed for some clean up