1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:5-6

[zotah]

1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:5-6

I was always told as a baptist that while Jesus was dead for 3 days he went to Paridise (Luke 16) and released all the spirits from there to heaven.

1 Peter 3:19 says

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison:

and 1 Peter 4:5-6

Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live accourding to God in the spirit.

Question #1 Who were these people Jesus Preached to, were they Jews only or were they everyone who had a hope of the Messiah coming?

Question #2 Where does it say in the Bible that we don't have another chance after we die to except Christ.

Question #3 What about those millions of people through out time over that last 2000 years that had died and never heard of Jesus Christ before. Do these verses point to that fact that they might have a chance to get saved after they die or will they all go to hell since they never excepted Christ.

Question #4 What is the age of accountability. 3 years old or older?

Question #5 Where does the Bible talk about the age of accountability? and do Babys go to heaven. Where does it say that?

Question #6 What do these verses Mean and who are they talking about?
1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:5-6 See above. Do these people Jesus was talking and preaching too. Are they only the people that had died before Jesus had died.

I think that's enough questions.

I really would like to know the exact teaching on this.

Thanks,
Zotah

 

[justvisiting]

Asking some heavy questions there. You might want to write David Hocking.
The body stays in the grave. There are no resurrected saints in heaven. That is a one time event.
Here is a site that gives some interesting thoughts on it all...however I would be careful about mentioning such things as "rephaim"...it is a Hebrew word. This is only for perusal. There are some good grains of truth in there. Don't weigh this like it is totally doctrinal.

http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/what ... death.html

Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: (this was after the resurrection of Christ) but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Elijah and Enoch are there though. They were taken up without dying. Which is why I think they are the two prophets in Revelations.
God judges all men on what they know...and what they do with what they know. The invisible things of God are shown from the Creation...so that they are without excuse. (Romans). If they acknowledge truth, then God gives them more truth.
Children that have no knowledge of sin cannot be held accountable. Of such are the kingdom of God.
There is no use praying for the dead...if that's what you meant.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[RND]

1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:5-6

I was always told as a baptist that while Jesus was dead for 3 days he went to Paridise (Luke 16) and released all the spirits from there to heaven.

Error is sometimes taught that way - as fact.

Question #1 Who were these people Jesus Preached to, were they Jews only or were they everyone who had a hope of the Messiah coming?

Jesus didn't go anywhere while in the grave.

Question #2 Where does it say in the Bible that we don't have another chance after we die to except Christ.

Mat 25:31 ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:

Question #3 What about those millions of people through out time over that last 2000 years that had died and never heard of Jesus Christ before. Do these verses point to that fact that they might have a chance to get saved after they die or will they all go to hell since they never excepted Christ.

See Romans 2:12-16

Question #4 What is the age of accountability. 3 years old or older?

The age whenever someone is able to make a rational and intelligent decision for Christ. 10-13 years.

Question #5 Where does the Bible talk about the age of accountability? and do Babys go to heaven. Where does it say that?

It doesn't say that anywhere in the Bible.

Question #6 What do these verses Mean and who are they talking about?
1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:5-6 See above. Do these people Jesus was talking and preaching too. Are they only the people that had died before Jesus had died.

in 3:19 the term "prison" often refers to the plight of the sinner - being "in prison" because of their sin. The key to understanding this verse is to understand verse 18: 1Pe 3:18 ¶ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Christ was "quickened" (made alive) by the same Spirit that preached to those "in prison." In verse 20 Peter gives us an example of what the "spirit once did.

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The spirits (small "s") were disobedient and rebellious in Noah's day, so much in fact that only 8 souls were saved, even though the Ark had much more room available.

In 1 Peter 4:5-6 verse 5 refers to Jesus that is coming to judge the quick (alive) and dead (those that have lived previously). Jesus does this at His appearing the second time:

2Ti 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Verse 6 refers to those that are "dead" in their sins.

Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened] (made alive), who were dead in trespasses and sins;

I think that's enough questions.

Hope my answers suffice.

I really would like to know the exact teaching on this.

I think I gave you some fairly solid teaching but I would always check my work against the Bible.

 

[cyberjosh]

RND,

What is your understanding of where King David, for example, is right now and how & when he got there? Were the saints in Sheol? Did they ascend with Christ? I would like to know what your view point is on that.

Thanks,

Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

Question #5 Where does the Bible talk about the age of accountability? and do Babys go to heaven. Where does it say that?

There is no explicit statement made concerning this issue, however the idea arises from a reading in 2 Samuel of something David said after the death of his first born son:

"He said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.' But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me" (2 Samuel 12:22-23).

David stated that he would go to be with the child, and this is seen as evidence that innocent children will be reunited in glory with their family before God in heaven.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[wavy]

Do you agree with that, Josh?


Finis,
Eric

 

[RND]

RND,

What is your understanding of where King David, for example, is right now and how & when he got there?

Great questions. My understanding is David is still in his sepulcher and has not yet ascended to Heaven.

Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Were the saints in Sheol?

Yes. That is if you are simply referring to sheol as the grave. If that's the case only a couple have been translated and not tasted earthly death. All others, including God Himself have tasted death.

Did they ascend with Christ? I would like to know what your view point is on that.

We know that when Christ died that there was an earthquake and the graves of certain people indeed opened and they that slept in those tombs were awaken and later ascended to heaven with Jesus. We also know that Enoch, Elijah and Moshe all were resurrected. John saw 24 elders surrounding the throne of God in heaven when he was given a glimpse so we know for sure there are certain saints that have already been resurrected.

 

[cyberjosh]

Do you agree with that, Josh?

I think in its immediate context that 'heaven' was not in view, but that David meant reunited in death - the grave, Sheol. However since David had in him the hope that he would not be abandoned to Sheol (Psalm 16:10), David may have anticipated a redemption from the grave. Anything beyond that is extrapolation (which could be legitimate), but the fact that David believed he would go to his son and not rather be eternally separated is significant IMO. The child would not "perish" or go into nothingness, but presumably would be with David in the grave.

I'll take what lessons I can from acknowledging that much.

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

Thanks RND. I'll have to muse over that and get back to you.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[wavy]

Well, aside from questions of Davidic authorship (unimportant and granted for the sake of argument) I don't think verse 10 of that psalm represents a belief in the reconstitution or revivification rather of the psalmist's dead body. That notion comes from the way the NT interprets it to support Jesus' resurrection. All it means is that the king goes on living; i.e. Yahweh has preserved his life and prosperity in the here and now.


Finis,
Eric

 

[cyberjosh]

Well, aside from questions of Davidic authorship (unimportant and granted for the sake of argument) I don't think verse 10 of that psalm represents a belief in the reconstitution or revivification rather of the psalmist's dead body. That notion comes from the way the NT interprets it to support Jesus' resurrection. All it means is that the king goes on living; i.e. Yahweh has preserved his life and prosperity in the here and now.


Finis,
Eric

I certainly understand the manner in which the Old Testament uses idioms and metaphors of life and death by way of reference to the afterlife (e.g. "valley of the shadow of death", the lowest and darkest of situations), and also a contrast to having life on earth being to 'be cut off from among your people'. However in light of the NT quotation and because of the common usage in the NT of OT scripture with additional significance I accept an interpretation that David would not in fact remain in Sheol after death, and (although a later OT concept) Daniel also records, "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt"(Daniel 12:2). But in light of the fact that I believe that to be true in any case, you may indeed be right that that is not what David may have immediately had in mind when he said that.

Actually a church group I meet with for thursday night Bible study has recently been studying on the historical sequence of revelation about the end times in the Scriptures. We have started in Daniel and had a discussion about how the Jewish concepts of the afterlife developed, and I do concede that the early Hebrews may not have had an extensive theology of the afterlife (Daniel's prophecy being a major revelation to the Jewish people and all). But in light of the revelation that there will be a ressurection in the end, whether David meant that specifically/cognitively or not may not matter. Nonetheless, your contextual note is taken into account and is a legitimate point.

Thanks,

~Josh

 

[whirlwind]

1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:5-6

I was always told as a baptist that while Jesus was dead for 3 days he went to Paridise (Luke 16) and released all the spirits from there to heaven.

1 Peter 3:19 says

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison:

and 1 Peter 4:5-6

Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live accourding to God in the spirit.

Question #1 Who were these people Jesus Preached to, were they Jews only or were they everyone who had a hope of the Messiah coming?

As all souls belong to Him and He wants all to come to repentance I would say....to everyone.

Question #2 Where does it say in the Bible that we don't have another chance after we die to except Christ.

It doesn't say that. The millennium is a time of teaching for those that are not of the first resurrection.

Question #3 What about those millions of people through out time over that last 2000 years that had died and never heard of Jesus Christ before. Do these verses point to that fact that they might have a chance to get saved after they die or will they all go to hell since they never excepted Christ.

:yes

Question #4 What is the age of accountability. 3 years old or older?

I don't know. As Jesus was twelve when He began to teach...perhaps that is it if there is indeed an age of accountability.

Question #5 Where does the Bible talk about the age of accountability? and do Babys go to heaven. Where does it say that?

• Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it.
  
  Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.

All souls return to the Father. Not the flesh body but "his breath" which is our spirit.

Question #6 What do these verses Mean and who are they talking about?
1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:5-6 See above. Do these people Jesus was talking and preaching too. Are they only the people that had died before Jesus had died.

I don't understand what you are asking. Who else could they be?

I think that's enough questions.

I really would like to know the exact teaching on this.

Thanks,
Zotah

 

[stovebolts]

Whirlwind and cybershark,
In response to question 4 and 5.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=32519&start=30

Ezekiel 18:19-20
19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father ? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son : the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
KJV

And in the New Testament;

Galatians 6:5
For every man shall bear his own burden .

A friend of mine wrote this several years ago...

I'm reminded of the exodus and wanderings of the children of Israel. After the Israelites listened to the ten spies, they refused to follow God into the promised land. As a result, God caused them to wander in the wilderness for forty years - everyone 20 years old and older perished. But note in particular the description of those younger than 20:

Numbers 14:29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above. 30 Except for Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun, you shall by no means enter the land which I swore I would make you dwell in. 31 But your little ones, whom you said would be victims, I will bring in, and they shall know the land which you have despised. NKJV


Deuteronomy 1:39 'Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. NKJV

Those younger than 20 were described as "little ones and children" with "no knoledge of good and evil." I'm not suggesting this as a rule of thumb, but it is at least food for thought...

 

[stovebolts]

Question #1 Who were these people Jesus Preached to, were they Jews only or were they everyone who had a hope of the Messiah coming?

I believe they were the saints (Option 2).
Quoting from the Net Bible:
Matthew 27:50 Then Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and gave up his spirit. 27:51 Just then the temple curtain was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks were split apart. 27:52 And tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had died were raised. 27:53 (They came out of the tombs after his resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.)

Question #2 Where does it say in the Bible that we don't have another chance after we die to except Christ.

First off, the word Christ is the greek translation of the hebrew word Messiah. Cyrus was, and is still considered a Messiah for the Jewish people because of what he did for the Jewish nation (Released them from exile and authorized the rebuilding of the Temple). That being said, many Jews did not return to Zion after exile, although they did enjoy the second temple worship.
Hebrews 9:27 And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment, 9:28 so also, after Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many, to those who eagerly await him he will appear a second time, not to bear sin but to bring salvation
Seems like this follows the previous line of thought (Option 2 :D )

Question #3 What about those millions of people through out time over that last 2000 years that had died and never heard of Jesus Christ before. Do these verses point to that fact that they might have a chance to get saved after they die or will they all go to hell since they never excepted Christ.

First off, I think many take an Anglo Saxon view on hell. But enough said on that...
Romans 2:6 He will reward each one according to his works: 2:7 eternal life to those who by perseverance in good works seek glory and honor and immortality, 2:8 but wrath and anger to those who live in selfish ambition and do not obey the truth but follow unrighteousness. 2:9 There will be affliction and distress on everyone who does evil, on the Jew first and also the Greek, 2:10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, for the Jew first and also the Greek. 2:11 For there is no partiality with God. 2:12 For all who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous before God, but those who do the law will be declared righteous. 2:14 For whenever the Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, these who do not have the law are a law to themselves. 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written in their hearts, as their conscience bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or else defend them, 2:16 on the day when God will judge the secrets of human hearts, according to my gospel through Christ Jesus.

In Jewish thought (Which Paul was a Jew...) they called the rightous outside of Judisism the Noahides...

Grace and Peace,
Jeff