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1611 King James Bible

n2thelight

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1611 King James Bible

The Translator to the Reader (YOU)

THE BEST THINGS HAVE BEEN CULMINATED

Zeal to promote the common good, whether it be by devising anything ourselves, or revising that which hath been laboured by others, deserveth certainly much respect and esteem, but yet findeth but cold entertainment in the world. It is welcomed with suspicion instead of love, and with emulation instead of thanks: and if there be any hole left for cavil to enter, (and cavil, if it do not find a hole, will make one) it is sure to be misconstrued, and in danger to be condemned.

This will easily be granted by as many as know story, or have any experience. For, was there ever any-projected, that savoured any way of newness or renewing, but the same endured many a storm of gainsaying, or opposition? A man would think that Civility, wholesome Laws, learning and eloquence, Synods, and Church-maintenance, (that we speak of no more things of this kind) should be as safe as a Sanctuary, and out of shot, as they say, that no man would liftup the heel, no, nor dog move his tongue against the motioners of them.

For by the first, we are distinguished from brute beasts lead with sensuality; By the second, we are bridled and restrained from outrageous behaviour, and from doing of injuries, whether by fraud or by violence;By the third, we are enabled to inform and reform others, by the light and feeling that we have attained unto ourselves; Briefly, by the fourth being brought together to a parley face to face, we sooner compose our differences than by writings which are endless; And lastly, that the Church be sufficiently provided for, is so agreeable to good reason and conscience, that those mothers are holden to be less cruel, that kill their children as soon as they are born, than those nursing fathers and mothers (wheresoever they be) that withdraw from them who hang upon their breasts (and upon whose breasts again themselves do hang to receive the Spiritual and sincere milk of the word) livelihood and support fit for their estates.

Thus it is apparent, that these things which we speakof, are of most necessary use, and therefore, that none, either without absurdity can speak against them, or without note of wickedness can spurn against them. Yet for all that, the learned know that certain worthy men [Anacharsis with others] have been brought to untimely death for none other fault, butfor seeking to reduce their Countrymen to god order and discipline; and that in some Common wealths [e.g. Locri] it was made a capital crime, once to motion the making of a new Law for the abrogating of an old, though the same were most pernicious; And that certain [Cato the elder], which would be counted pillars of the State, and patterns of Virtue and Prudence,could not be brought for a long time to give way to good Letters and refined speech, but bare themselves as averse from them, as from rocks or boxes of poison; And fourthly, that he was no babe, but a great clerk [Gregory the Divine], that gave forth (and in writing to remain to posterity) in passion peradventure, but yet he gave forth, that he had not seen any profit to come by any Synod, or meeting of the Clergy, but rather the contrary; And lastly, against Church-maintenance and allowance, in such sort, as the Ambassadors and messengers of the great King of Kings should be furnished,it is not unknown what a fiction or fable (so it is esteemed, and for no better by the reporter himself [Nauclerus], though superstitious) was devised; Namely, that at such a time as the professors and teachers of Christianity in the Church of Rome, then a true Church, were liberally endowed, a voice forsooth was heard from heaven, saying: Now is poison poured down into the Church, etc. Thus not only as oft as we speak, asone saith, but also as oft as we do anything of note or consequence, we subject ourselves to everyone's censure, and happy is he that is least tossed upon tongues; for utterly to escape the snatch of them it is impossible.

If any man conceit, that this is the lot and portion of the meaner sort only, and that Princes are privileged by their high estate,he is deceived. "As the sword devoureth as well one as the other," as it is in Samuel [2 Sam 11:25], nay as the great Commander charged his soldiers in a certain battle, to strike at no part of the enemy, but at the face; And as the King of Syria commanded his chief Captains to"fight neither with small nor great, save only against the King of Israel:" [1 Kings 22:31] so it is too true, that Envy striketh most spitefully at the fairest, and at the chiefest. David was a worthy Prince, and no man to be compared to him for his first deeds, and yetfor as worthy as act as ever he did (even for bringing back the Ark ofGod in solemnity) he was scorned and scoffed at by his own wife [2 Sam6:16]. Solomon was greater than David, though not in virtue, yet in power: and by his power and wisdom he built a Temple to the Lord, sucha one as was the glory of the land of Israel, and the wonder of the whole world. But was that his magnificence liked of by all? We doubt it.

Otherwise, why do they lay it in his son's dish, and call unto him for easing the burden, "Make", say they, "the grievous servitude of thy father, and his sore yoke, lighter?" [1 Kings 12:4] Belike hehad charged them with some levies, and troubled them with some carriages;Here upon they raise up a tragedy, and wish in their heart the Temple had never been built.

So hard a thing it is to please all, even when we please God best, and do seek to approve ourselves to every ones conscience. If we will descend to later times, we shall find many the like examples of such kind, or rather unkind acceptance. The first RomanEmperor [C. Caesar. Plutarch] did never do a more pleasing deed to the learned, nor more profitable to posterity, for conserving the record of times in true supputation; than when he corrected the Calendar, and ordered the year according to the course of the Sun; and yet this was imputed to him for novelty, and arrogance, and procured to him great obloguy. So the first Christened Emperor [Constantine] (at the least-wise that openly professed the faith himself, and allowed others to do the like) for strengthening the Empire at his great charges, and pro-viding for the Church, as he did, got for his labour the name Pupillus,as who would say, a wasteful Prince, that had need of a Guardian oroverseer [Aurel. Victor]. So the best Christened Emperor [Theodosius],for the love that he bare unto peace, thereby to enrich both himself and his subjects, and because he did not see war but find it, was judged to be no man at arms [Zosimus], (though indeed he excelled infeats of chivalry, and showed so much when he was provoked) and con-demned for giving himself to his ease, and to his pleasure.

To be short, the most learned Emperor of former times [Justinian], (at the least, the greatest politician) what thanks had he for cutting offthe superfluities of the laws, and digesting them into some order and method? This, that he had been blotted by some to be an Epitomist,that is, one that extinguishes worthy whole volumes, to bring his abridgments into request. This is the measure that hath been rendered to excellent Princes in former times, even, Cum bene facerent, maleaudire, For their good deeds to be evil spoken of. Neither is there any likelihood, that envy and malignity died, and were buried with the ancient. No, no, the reproof of Moses taketh hold of most ages;"You are risen up in your fathers' stead, and increase of sinful men."[Num 32:14] "What is that that hath been done? that which shall bedone; and there is no new thing under the Sun," saith the wiseman:[Ecc 1:9] and S. Stephen, "As your fathers did, so do you." [Acts 7:51]

HIS MAJESTY'S CONSTANCY, NOTWITHSTANDING CULMINATION, FOR THE SURVEY OF THE ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS

This, and more to this purpose, His Majesty that now reigneth (and long,and long may he reign, and his offspring forever, "Himself and children,and children's always) knew full well, according to the singular wisdom given unto him by God, and the rare learning and experience that he hath attained unto; namely that whosoever attempteth anything for the public(especially if it pertain to Religion, and to the opening and clearingof the word of God) the same setteth himself upon a stage to be gloated upon by every evil eye, yea, he casteth himself head long upon pikes, tobe gored by every sharp tongue.

For he that medleth with men's Religion in any part, medleth with their custom, nay, with their freehold; and though they find no content in that which they have, yet they cannot abide to hear of altering. Notwithstanding his Royal heart was not daunted or discouraged for this that colour, but stood resolute, "as astatue immovable, and an anvil not easy to be beaten into plates," as one[Suidas] saith; he knew who had chosen him to be a Soldier, or rather a Captain, and being assured that the course which he intended made for the glory of God, and the building up of his Church, he would not suffer it to be broken off for whatsoever speeches or practices.

It doth certainly belong unto Kings, yea, it doth specially belong unto them, to have care of Religion, yea, it doth specially belong unto them, to have care ofReligion, yea, to know it aright, yea, to profess it zealously, yea to promote it to the uttermost of their power. This is their glory before all nations which mean well, and this will bring unto them a far most excellent weight of glory in the day of the Lord Jesus. For the Scripture saith not in vain, "Them that honor me, I will honor," [1 Sam 2:30] neither was it a vain word that Eusebius delivered long ago, that piety towards God was the weapon and the only weapon, that both preserved Constantine's person,and avenged him of his enemies [Eusebius lib 10 cap 8].


THE PRAISE OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES

But now what piety without truth? what truth (what saving truth)without the word of God? What word of God (where of we may be sure)without the Scripture? The Scriptures we are commanded to search. John 5:39. Isa 8:20. They are commended that searched and studied them. Acts 17:11 and 8:28,29. They are reproved that were unskilful in them, or slow to believe them. Matt 22:29. Luke 24:25. They can make us wise unto salvation. 2 Tim 3:15. If we be ignorant, they will instruct us; if out of the way, they will bring us home; if out of order, they will reform us; if in heaviness, comfort us; if dull,quicken us; if cold, inflame us. Tolle, lege; Tolle, lege, Take up and read, take up and read the Scriptures [S. August. confess. lib 8cap 12], (for unto them was the direction) it was said unto S. Augus-tine by a supernatural voice.

"Whatsoever is in the Scriptures,believe me," saith the same S. Augustine, "is high and divine; there is verily truth, and a doctrine most fit for the refreshing of men's minds, and truly so tempered, that everyone may draw from thence that which is sufficient for him, if he come to draw with a devout and pious mind, as true Religion requireth." [S. August. de utilit.credendi cap. 6] Thus S. Augustine. and S. Jerome: "Ama scripturas,et am abit te sapientia etc." [S. Jerome. ad Demetriad] Love the Scriptures, and wisdom will love thee. And S. Cyril against Julian;"Even boys that are bred up in the Scriptures, become most religious,etc." [S. Cyril. 7 contra Iulianum] But what mention we three or four uses of the Scripture, whereas whatsoever is to be believed or practiced, or hoped for, is contained in them? or three or four sen-tences of the Fathers, since whosoever is worthy the name of a Father,from Christ's time downward, hath likewise written not only of the riches, but also of the perfection of the Scripture?

"I adore the fulness of the Scripture," saith Tertullian against Hermogenes.[Tertul. advers. Hermo.] And again, to Apelles an heretic of the like stamp, he saith; "I do not admit that which thou bringest in (or concludest) of thine own (head or store, de tuo) without Scripture." [Tertul. de carne Christi.] So Saint Justin Martyr before him; "We must know by all means," saith he, "that it is not lawful (or possible) to learn (anything) of God or of right piety,save only out of the Prophets, who teach us by divine inspiration."So Saint Basil after Tertullian, "It is a manifest falling way fromthe Faith, and a fault of presumption, either to reject any of those things that are written, or to bring in (upon the head of them) any of those things that are not written. We omit to cite to the sameeffect, S. Cyril B. of Jerusalem in his 4::Cataches., Saint Jeromeagainst Helvidius, Saint Augustine in his 3::book against the letters of Petilian, and in very many other places of his works. Also we forebear to descend to later Fathers, because we will not weary there ader.

The Scriptures then being acknowledged to be so full and so perfect, how can we excuse ourselves of negligence, if we do not study them, of curiosity, if we be not content with them? Men talk much of [an olive bow wrapped about with wood, where upon did hang figs, and bread, honey in a pot, and oil], how many sweet and goodly things it had hanging on it; of the Philosopher's stone, that it turned copper into gold; of Cornu-copia, that it had all things necessary for food in it, of Panaces the herb, that it was good for diseases, of Catholicon the drug, that it is instead of all purges;of Vulcan's armor, that it was an armor of proof against all thrusts,and all blows, etc. Well, that which they falsely or vainly attributed to these things for bodily god, we may justly and with full measure ascribe unto the Scripture, for spiritual. It is not only an armor,but also a whole armory of weapons, both offensive and defensive;whereby we may save ourselves and put the enemy to flight. It is not an herb, but a tree, or rather a whole paradise of trees of life,which bring forth fruit every month, and the fruit thereof is for meat, and the leaves for medicine.

It is not a pot of Manna, or a cruse of oil, which were for memory only, or for a meal's meat ortwo, but as it were a shower of heavenly bread sufficient for a wholehost, be it never so great; and as it were a whole cellar full of oilvessels; whereby all our necessities may be provided for, and our debts discharged. In a word, it is a Panary of wholesome food, against fenowed traditions; a Physician's shop (Saint Basil called it) [S. Basil in Psal. primum.] of preservatives against poisoned heresies;a Pandect of profitable laws, against rebellious spirits; a treasury of most costly jewels, against beggarly rudiments; finally a fountain of most pure water springing up unto everlasting life. And what marvel?

The original there of being from heaven, not from earth; the author being God, not man; the inditer, the holy spirit, not the wit of the Apostles or Prophets; the Penmen such as were sanctified from the womb, and endued with a principal portion of God's spirit; the matter, verity, piety, purity, uprightness; the form, God's word, God's testimony, God's oracles, the word of truth, the word of salvation, etc.; the effects,light of understanding, stableness of persuasion, repentance from dead works, newness of life, holiness, peace, joy in the holy Ghost; lastly,the end and reward of the study thereof, fellowship with the Saints,participation of the heavenly nature, fruition of an inheritance im-mortal, undefiled, and that never shall fade away: Happy is the man that delighted in the Scripture, and thrice happy that meditateth in it day and night.


TRANSLATION NECESSARY

But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknown tongue? as it is written, "Except I know the power of the voice, I shall be to him that speaketh, a Barbarian, and he that speaketh, shall be a Barbarian to me." [1 Cor 14] The Apostle excepteth no tongue; not Hebrew the an-cientest, not Greek the most copious, not Latin the finest. Nature taught a natural man to confess, that all of us in those tongues which we do not understand, are plainly deaf; we may turn the deaf ear unto them. The Scythian counted the Athenian, whom he did not understand, barbarous;[Clem. Alex. 1 Strom.] so the Roman did the Syrian, and the Jew (even S.Jerome himself called the Hebrew tongue barbarous, belike because it was strange to so many) [S. Jerome. Damaso.] so the Emperor of Constantinople[Michael, Theophili fil.] calleth the Latin tongue, barbarous, though Pope Nicolas do storm at it: [2::Tom. Concil. ex edit. Petri Crab] so the Jews long before Christ called all other nations, Lognazim, which is little better than barbarous.

Therefore as one complaineth, that alwaysin the Senate of Rome, there was one or other that called for an inter-preter: [Cicero 5::de finibus.] so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readiness. Transla-tion it is that openeth the window, to let in the light; that breaketh the shell, that we may eat the kernel; that putteth aside the curtain,that we may look into the most Holy place; that removeth the cover of the well, that we may come by the water, even as Jacob rolled away the stone from the mouth of the well, by which means the flocks of Laban were watered [Gen 29:10]. Indeed without translation into the vulgar tongue, the unlearned are but like children at Jacob's well (which isdeep) [John 4:11] without a bucket or something to draw with; or as that person mentioned by Isaiah, to whom when a sealed book was delivered, with this motion, "Read this, I pray thee," he was faint to make this answer, "I cannot, for it is sealed." [Isa 29:11]


THE TRANSLATION OF THE OLD TESTAMENT OUT OF THE HEBREW INTO GREEK

While God would be known only in Jacob, and have his Name great in Israel, and in none other place, while the dew lay on Gideon's fleece only, and all the earth besides was dry; then for one and the same people,which spake all of them the language of Canaan, that is, Hebrew, one andthe same original in Hebrew was sufficient. [S. August. lib 12 contraFaust c32] But, when the fulness of time drew near, that the Sun of righteousness, the Son of God should come into the world, whom God ordained to be a reconciliation through faith in his blood, not of theJew only, but also of the Greek, yea, of all them that were scattered abroad; then lo, it pleased the Lord to stir up the spirit of a Greek Prince (Greek for descent and language) even of Ptolemy Philadelph King of Egypt, to procure the translating of the Book of God out of Hebrew into Greek.

This is the translation of the Seventy Interpreters, com-monly so called, which prepared the way for our Saviour among the Gen-tiles by written preaching, as Saint John Baptist did among the Jews by vocal. For the Grecians being desirous of learning, were not wont to suffer books of worth to lie moulding in Kings' libraries, but had many of their servants, ready scribes, to copy them out, and so they were dispersed and made common. Again, the Greek tongue was well known and made familiar to most inhabitants in Asia, by reason of the conquest that there the Grecians had made, as also by the Colonies, which thither they had sent.

For the same causes also it was well understood in many places of Europe, yea, and of Africa too. Therefore the word of God being set forth in Greek, becometh hereby like a candle set upon a candlestick, which giveth light to all that are in the house, or like a proclamation sounded forth in the market place, which most men presently take knowledge of; and therefore that language was fittest to contain the Scriptures, both for the first Preachers of the Gospel to appeal unto for witness, and for the learners also of those times to make search and trial by. It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correc-tion; and who had been so sufficient for this work as the Apostles or Apostolic men?

Yet it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to them, to take that which they found, (the same being for the greatest part true and sufficient) rather than making a new, in that new world and greenage of the Church, to expose themselves to many exceptions and cavil-lations, as though they made a Translations to serve their own turn,and therefore bearing a witness to themselves, their witness not to be regarded.

This may be supposed to be some cause, why the Translation of the Seventy was allowed to pass for current. Not withstanding, though it was commended generally, yet it did not fully content the learned, no not of the Jews. For not long after Christ, Aquila fell in hand with a new Translation, and after him Theodotion, and after him Symmachus; yea, there was a fifth and a sixth edition, the Authors where of were not known. [Epiphan. de mensur. et ponderibus.] These with the Seventy made up the Hexapla and were worthily and to great purpose compiled together by Origen. Howbeit the Edition of the Seventy went away with the credit,and therefore not only was placed in the midst by Origen (for the worthand excellency thereof above the rest, as Epiphanius gathered) but also was used by the Greek fathers for the ground and foundation of their Commentaries.

Yea, Epiphanius above named doeth attribute so much unto it, that he holdeth the Authors thereof not only for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect [S. August. 2::de dectrin. Christianc. 15]; and Justinian the Emperor enjoining the Jews his subjects to use especially the Translation of the Seventy, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlightened with prophetical grace. Yet for all that, as the Egyptians are said of the Prophet to be men and not God, and their horses flesh and not spirit [Isa 31:3];so it is evident, (and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) [S. Jerome.de optimo genere interpret.] that the Seventy were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, anotherwhile through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to add to the Original, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sense thereof according to the truth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greek Translations of the Old Testament.


TRANSLATION OUT OF HEBREW AND GREEK INTO LATIN

There were also within a few hundred years after CHRIST, trans-lations many into the Latin tongue: for this tongue also was very fit to convey the Law and the Gospel by, because in those times very many Countries of the West, yea of the South, East and North, spake or understood Latin, being made Provinces to the Romans. But now the Latin Translations were too many to be all good, for they were infinite(Latini Interprets nullo modo numerari possunt, saith S. Augustine.)[S. Augustin. de doctr. Christ. lib 2 cap II]. Again they were not out of the Hebrew fountain (we speak of the Latin Translations of the Old Testament) but out of the Greek stream, therefore the Greek being not altogether clear, the Latin derived from it must needs be muddy.This moved S. Jerome a most learned father, and the best linguist without controversy, of his age, or of any that went before him, to undertake the translating of the Old Testament, out of the very fountain with that evidence of great learning, judgment, industry,and faithfulness, that he had forever bound the Church unto him, in a debt of special remembrance and thankfulness.


THE TRANSLATING OF THE SCRIPTURE INTO THE VULGAR TONGUES

Now through the Church were thus furnished with Greek and Latin Trans-lations, even before the faith of CHRIST was generally embraced in the Empire; (for the learned know that even in S. Jerome's time, the Consul of Rome and his wife were both Ethnics, and about the same time the greatest part of the Senate also) [S. Jerome. Marcell.Zosim] yet for all that the godly-learned were not content to have the Scriptures inthe Language which they themselves understood, Greek and Latin, (asthe good Lepers were not content to fare well themselves, but acquainted their neighbors with the store that God had sent, that they also might provide for themselves) [2 Kings 7:9] but also for the be hoof and edifying of the unlearned which hungered and thirsted after righteous-ness, and had souls to be saved as well as they, they provided Trans-lations into the vulgar for their Country men, in so much that most nations under heaven did shortly after their conversion, hear CHRISTspeaking unto them in their mother tongue, not by the voice of their Minister only, but also by the written word translated.

If any doubthereof, he may be satisfied by examples enough, if enough will serve the turn. First S. Jerome saith, Multarum gentium linguis Scripturaante translata, docet falsa esse quae addita sunt, etc. i.e. "The Scripture being translated before in the languages of many Nations,doth show that those things that were added (by Lucian and Hesychius) are false." [S. Jerome. praef. in 4::Evangel.] So S. Jerome in that place.

The same Jerome elsewhere affirmeth that he, the time was,had set forth the translation of the Seventy suae linguae hominibus,i.e., for his countrymen of Dalmatia [S. Jerome. Sophronio.] Which words not only Erasmus doth understand to purport, that S. Jerome translated the Scripture into the Dalmatian tongue, but also Sixtus Senensis [Six. Sen. lib 4], and Alphonsus a` Castro [Alphon. lb 1ca 23] (that we speak of no more) men not to be excepted against by them of Rome, do ingenuously confess as much. So, S. Chrysostomthat lived in S. Jerome's time, giveth evidence with him: "The doctrine of S. John [saith he] did not in such sort [as the Philo-sophers' did] vanish away: but the Syrians, Egyptians, Indians,Persians, Ethiopians, and infinite other nations being barbarous people translated it into their [mother] tongue, and have learned to be [true] Philosophers," he meaneth Christians. [S. Chrysost.in Johan. cap.I. hom.I.] To this may be added Theodoret, as next unto him, both for antiquity, and for learning. His words be these,"Every Country that is under the Sun, is full of these words (of the Apostles and Prophets) and the Hebrew tongue [he meaneth the Scrip-tures in the Hebrew tongue] is turned not only into the Language ofthe Grecians, but also of the Romans, and Egyptians, and Persians,and Indians, and Armenians, and Scythians, and Sauromatians, and briefly into all the Languages that any Nation useth. [Theodor. 5.Therapeut.] So he. In like manner, Ulfilas is reported by Paulus Diaconus and Isidor (and before them by Sozomen) to have translatedthe Scriptures into the Gothic tongue: [P. Diacon. li. 12.] JohnBishop of Sevil by Vasseus, to have turned them into Arabic, aboutthe year of our Lord 717; [Vaseus in Chron. Hispan.]

Bede by Cister-tiensis, to have turned a great part of them into Saxon: Efnard byTrithemius, to have abridged the French Psalter, as Beded had done the Hebrew, about the year 800: King Alfred by the said Cistertien-sis, to have turned the Psalter into Saxon: [Polydor. Virg. 5 histor.]Methodius by Aventinus (printed at Ingolstadt) to have turned the Scriptures into Slavonian: [Aventin. lib. 4.] Valdo, Bishop of Frising by Beatus Rhenanus, to have caused about that time, the Gospels to be translated into Dutch rhythm, yet extant in the Library of Corbinian: [Circa annum 900. B. Rhenan. rerum German.lib 2.] Valdus, by divers to have turned them himself into French,about the year 1160: Charles the Fifth of that name, surnamed the Wise, to have caused them to be turned into French, about 200 yearsafter Valdus his time, of which translation there be many copiesyet extant, as witnesseth Beroald us. Much about that time, evenin our King Richard the second's days, John Trevisa translated them into English, and many English Bibles in written hand are yetto be seen with divers, translated as it is very probable, in that age.

So the Syrian translation of the New Testament is in most learned men's Libraries, of Widmin stadius his setting forth, and the Psalter in Arabic is with many, of Augustinus Nebiensis' set-ting forth. So Postel affirmeth, that in his travel he saw the Gospels in the Ethiopian tongue; And Ambrose Thesius allegeth the Pslater of the Indians, which he testifieth to have been set forth by Potken in Syrian characters. So that, to have the Scriptures in the mother tongue is not a quaint conceit lately taken up, either by the Lord Cromwell in England, [Thuan.] or by the Lord Radevile in Polony, or by the Lord Ungnadius in the Emperor's dominion, but hath been thought upon, and put in practice of old, even from the first times of the conversion of any Nation; no doubt, because it was esteemed most profitable, to cause faith to grow in men's hearts the sooner, and to make them to be able to say with the words ofthe Psalms, "As we have heard, so we have seen." [Ps 48:8]


THE UNWILLINGNESS OF OUR CHIEF ADVERSARIES, THAT THE SCRIPTURES SHOULD BE DIVULGED IN THE MOTHER TONGUE, ETC.

Now the Church of Rome would seem at the length to bear a motherly affection towards her children, and to allow them the Scriptures intheir mother tongue: but indeed it is a gift, not deserving to be called a gift, an unprofitable gift: [Sophecles] they must first get a licence in writing before they may use them, and to get that, they must approve themselves to their Confessor, that is, to be such as are, if not frozen in the dregs, yet soured with the leaven of their superstition. Howbeit, it seemed too much to Clement the Eighth that there should be any Licence granted to have them in the vulgar tongue, and therefore he overruleth and frustrateth the grant of Pius the Fourth. [See the observation (set forth by Clemen. hisauthority) upon the 4. rule of Pius the 4. his making in the index, lib. prohib. pag. 15. ver. 5.] So much are they afraid of the light of the Scripture, (Lucifugae Scripturarum, as Tertulian speaketh)that they will not trust the people with it, no not as it is set forth by their own sworn men, no not with the Licence of their own Bishops and Inquisitors. Yea, so unwilling they are to communicatethe Scriptures to the people's understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confess, that we forced them to translate it into English against their wills.

This seemeth to argue a bad cause, ora bad conscience, or both. Sure we are, that it is not he that hath good gold, that is afraid to bring it to the touchstone, but he that hath the counterfeit; [Tertul. de resur. carnis.] neither is it the true man that shunneth the light, but the malefactor, lest his deeds should be reproved [John 3:20]: neither is it the plain dealing Mer-chant that is unwilling to have the weights, or the mete yard brought in place, but he that useth deceit. But we will let them alone for this fault, and return to translation.

The rest can be read here

http://www.theseason.org/this.htm
 
I agree. Lets keep it simple.

TOS #9 - Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info. We want to respect copyrighted material. Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.
 
vic C. said:
Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.
Great advice vic.... I was wondering: What IS the point?

I've found some people seem to worship this translation of the Bible.... I don't get it.
 
The KJV was a good translation. Also they copied the majority of William Tyndale's translation (mostly NT) which gives us such memorable words and phrases such as "scapegoat","filthy lucre", "apple of the eye", etc. I enjoy reading the KJV, it's just not perfect, like any translation is not perfect.

P.S. I have a 1611 facimile of the the original KJV, apocrypha and all. It's pretty neat (even if difficult to read - but that's half the fun :)). I also have an actual leaflet from a 1650 reprint of the KJV (laminated in the back of a book I got from a Bible Museum along with an even earlier leaflet of the Geneva Bible).

God Bless,

~Josh
 
Father Mitch Pacwa said once that the best translation is the one that you will actually read. LOL. He was referring to folks who have fancy Bibles on their coffee tables that have never even been opened.
 
Catholic Crusader said:
Father Mitch Pacwa said once that the best translation is the one that you will actually read. LOL. He was referring to folks who have fancy Bibles on their coffee tables that have never even been opened.
Man, that stirs up childhood memories. That Book sat on the table, untouched, like it was some sort of talisman. :o
 
vic C. said:
I agree. Lets keep it simple.

TOS #9 - Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info. We want to respect copyrighted material. Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.

I agree with Vic here...

I do not think we have the attention span to read more than a few paragraphs...

That's the way we are.

Also, Vic is correct on the copyright thing. It is not fair to copy another's work without giving credit (also, someone may want to read more about it directly)

Regards
 
Scott1 said:
vic C. said:
Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.
Great advice vic.... I was wondering: What IS the point?

I've found some people seem to worship this translation of the Bible.... I don't get it.

I prefer the earlier English translation, the Douay Rheims...

Especially with the Haydock commentary. Scott, do you own the Haydock? I can give you a website that has this online. I had read the NT a dozen times and I felt like I was reading the Bible with the mind of the Church for the first time with this commentary. Matthew, Romans and Hebrews were incredible. I would say that the Navarre commentary is the only Catholic commentary that comes close.

(Sorry to my separated brothers, we Catholics don't have a lot of good Catholic commentaries to choose from - that are compiled in one place, at any rate...)

Regards
 
Sometimes we argue a lot. I was thinking it might soften us up a litle if we could put a face to the posts. So I started a picture thread. Go post your pic so we can all see each other's mugg:
LINK: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=32083

Okay, back to the topic
 
That's not going to help. I argue with people face to face!

:-D
 
francisdesales said:
I prefer the earlier English translation, the Douay Rheims...
Me too. And wasn't the 1611 KJV the one with with the Deutero-Canonicals in it?
 
vic C. said:
That's not going to help. I argue with people face to face!

:-D

LOL, same here. I'm usually atleast more moderate however when speaking face to face, and also my points come across stronger usually. Lets just say it's a little easy to be "flamboyant" when you are on forums.
 
I have a question: Why would you read a Bible written in a form of English you don't speak? People say that the Vulgate was in a language that the people couldn't read (which is not true totally), but who the heck speaks Elizabethen English?
 
Just imagine the gross injustice done to Shakespeare if his work was rewritten in modern English.

Romeo, Romeo, where are you, Romeo? :o
 
vic C. said:
Just imagine the gross injustice done to Shakespeare if his work was rewritten in modern English.

Romeo, Romeo, where are you, Romeo? :o
Does that mean a gross injustice was done with the KJV to the Evangelists who wrote in Greek & Heberw?

Touche'
 
Nope. But despite the alleged corruptness of the KJV you so fondly refer to, it has a flow and beauty to it that has never been matched. It has been lost though. Latin, though it being a dead language, has that flow to it also. Too bad I don't understand a word of it. I do understand the KJV though.
 
vic C. said:
Nope. But despite the alleged corruptness of the KJV you so fondly refer to, it has a flow and beauty to it that has never been matched. It has been lost though. Latin, though it being a dead language, has that flow to it also. Too bad I don't understand a word of it. I do understand the KJV though.
Perhaps I did not express myself well: What I was saying was: If modern English would screw up the literary flow of Shakespere as you inferred, then why wouldn't the English of the KJV screw up the literary flow of the original texts?
 
Catholic Crusader said:
[quote="vic C.":7adae]Nope. But despite the alleged corruptness of the KJV you so fondly refer to, it has a flow and beauty to it that has never been matched. It has been lost though. Latin, though it being a dead language, has that flow to it also. Too bad I don't understand a word of it. I do understand the KJV though.
Perhaps I did not express myself well: What I was saying was: If modern English would screw up the literary flow of Shakespere as you inferred, then why wouldn't the English of the KJV screw up the literary flow of the original texts?[/quote:7adae]
Translating Shakespeare into, say, Chinese would most likely flow differently. Same with bringing the Bible into our language. The KJV has done this, faithfully. No need for all these new translations. They only add confusion. It is THE Bible that has seen us through and will continue to be the one even if most of the Church falls for the deception of the modern versions.
 
vic C. said:
Just imagine the gross injustice done to Shakespeare if his work was rewritten in modern English.

Romeo, Romeo, where are you, Romeo? :o

Actually Juliet's soliloquoy would read " Romeo, Romeo, Why are you Romeo." She is asking why it is the son of the other family she is in love with not where he is. Thus Elizabethan English. It has changed over the years.
 
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