Bible Study 1st Century Calvinists in Galatia Fight Back

[Adams son]

The church of Galatia, the Elect Children of the Sovereign God who predestined all things to happen just as they happen, predestined to be born anew monergistically by Him through the particular redemption of his Son for the Elect, effectually called to grace and secure in Christ for eternity.

To Paul, the man who represents himself as an apostle of Christ. Grace and peace to you.

We are astonished and amazed by your last epistle which at first came to us with great joy. But alas! Upon reading your message our joy did quickly turn into great sorrow. You warn us that we may not enter the kingdom of God? How can you say such things to the elect of God! Do you not know that we were chosen by Him for glory before the creation of the world? You warn us, the elect, that God cannot be mocked and that we will reap what we sow! From where do these words come? Do you not know that we are predestined for the kingdom of heaven by God and this destiny is not changeable? How can you say that if we sow to the flesh we will reap destruction? How can you say to us that we will not reap eternal life but eternal destruction if we sow to the flesh? Do you not know that we are the elect and destruction is not our destiny and we already have eternal life? Do you not know we are eternally secure? How can you give such warnings to us? Dear Paul, are you perhaps a reprobate?

I remind you that you said in your letter that we ourselves had 'began in the Spirit.' You yourself reminded us that miracles were done among us through Him supplying the Spirit to us. You yourself reminded us that we are sons of God having been clothed with Christ and because we are sons of God, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts who cries 'Abba Father.' You yourself reminded us in this selfsame letter that we were children of the promise who had been set free. You yourself admit that we were born anew. You yourself even admit that you were witnesses of these things when you were among us.

And now you warn us that we have turned to another gospel and will not enter the kingdom of heaven and we may rather reap destruction based on our behavior rather than God's Sovereign election? How can you tell such a bold lie dearest Paul? Do you seek to deceive us with such falsehoods? For do you yourself not know that we who are saved cannot possibly end in the flesh? Surely, you know. Do you not know that it is impossible for us not to enter the kingdom of God, we who have began in the Spirit? What sense can your words ever make to us? For we all know that we who have been born again cannot escape entering the kingdom of God. For God chose us to heaven and our behavior between now and then cannot change our destiny since it was determined before the creation of the world. Are you not aware of five point Calvinism?

Therefore, we can only hope that your letter is a result of drinking too much of that Macedonian wine dear friend. Else we fear that you were never saved in the first place and we wonder how it is that God used you to bring us the gospel. We can only pray that no unsuspecting men consider your letter to our Galatian church as inspired by God. For it is impossible for us who were once born again to end up in any other place than heaven and such warnings to us that we children of the promise might not enter the kingdom of God have no partnership with reality. Your letter to us, the Galatian Church, cannot be the word of God. Paul, we suggest you study five point Calvinism.

 

[serapha]

To the elders and members of the church in Galatia, I am Paul, called to be an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, the chieftest of sinners and formerly the persecutor of the saints, though now I am by the grace of God, a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, and God having set me apart and calling me by his grace to be His witness unto you,

Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ,

I pray unceasingly for you and for your church, remembering each of you in my prayers.

You seem amazed at the message of the last epistle, yet, as we have said before, I now say again: if anyone preaches to you a gospel contrary to what you received, a curse be on him!

I am not called to be a ship that is not anchored, tossed on the seas without mission or calling, nor am I a ship that is lost on the seas without guidance or direction. I am not shipwrecked, a vessel which has been cast onto the rocks by the storms of life with the cargo plundered and the main mast at rest. I am a seaworthy vessel, whose Captain steers according to the Christian Scripture which He himself gave us as the instructions for remaining seaworthy vessels.

For you to understand, my dear friends, you, as a church, are a ship what was once guided by the same Captain, but you have replaced the Captain with a first officer who has steered your vessel into a foreign harbor. While you were once a viable vessel which witnessed daily of the authority of your Captain, there has been a mutiny among the members of the crew because a spirit of contention and division has been allowed to enter your vessel.

Now, while you were once serving under the Greatest Captain of all the seas, I fear that you had not pledged your faith in the ability of your Captain to keep you safe from the storms that rage around your vessel. The surety of the vessel was in your faith that the true Captain would evermore be able to guide your ship, to evermore anchor in safe harbors, to evermore be the Eternal Compass which would keep your ship on course.

I fear for you, God forbid--I fear that you have never had that faith else your ship would be on course. You have mutinied and you have told the True Captain that you had no faith in His ability to lead, guide and direct your ship. The Captain of your vessel knows your hearts were filled with evil and your profession of faith was one of public approval rather than one of a personal relationship in obedience to the Captain's call.


The value of your ship will be known by the cargo that she carries, and in the case of the First Church of Galatia, I fear that one bad apple has ruined the whole cargo.

While you appeared for a time to have a spirit that was in submission to the True Captain, and while you performed wonders and miracles in the name of your Captain,

I would remind you of the crewmember named Judas who also appeared for a time to have a submissive and obedient spirit, and who was able to perform miracles and marvelous wonders in the name the Great Captain of your ship--But, by the Captain's own voice, the words were uttered that there was never a profession of faith and loyalty to the name of the Captain. Heaven forbid, but that God has allowed you to possess the same spirit as the crewmember so named Judas, while being able to perform wondrous things and speaking wonderful words, you have done so by deceiving the heart and lying to self. You utter commands at the Captain's will, yet when the Captain is away leaving you at the helm of the ship, you say Stay, to that order and change the course of the ship.

You see, while the Great and Everlasting Captain may be in charge of your vessel while He is present, when the Captain delegates his leave, you have not followed his charge. A disobedient charge is marked to your name in the eternal ship log and the day that the Captain returns to take possession of your ship, that eternal ship log will be opened and the truth will be read from the pages of that eternal book. The mates did not follow the charge of the Captain because their pledge of faith was a lie.

I say now, and it is the desire of my heart to see the First Church of Galatia become what the Captain desires it to be. As the Captain pilots my vessel may He pilot your vessel also. I beseech you to seek out the True Captain and pledge your faith anew, and finally in total submission and obedience to the Captain's beck and call, that He may finally be the pilot, not only of your vessel, but of your whole armada, and that because of you new faith, that even in the absence of the Captain, your vessel will remain on the perfect course, set by the Perfect Captain.


That is the true sign of belonging to the True Captain's crew, that in His leave, you continue on the course that He established for your vessel.


Now the works of the contentious crew are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar, about which I tell you in advance--as I told you before--that those who practice such things will not see their vessels anchored in the eternal harbor of heaven. But the fruit of the Spirit of the True Captain is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to the True Captain have mutinied the flesh with its passions and desires.

May peace be on all those who follow this standard, and mercy also be on the Israel of God! From now on, let no one cause me trouble, because I carry the mark of the True Captain on my body. Brothers, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

 

[Adams son]

How anyone can read Galatians and still be a Calvinist is beyond me.

 

[JM]

Anyone who can read Romans 9 and still not believe in God and God alone for salvation, now that's beyond me.

 

[evanman]

Calvinism did not come into being until after Calvin, and not even Calvin would have called himself a Calvinist!

 

[JM]

Calvinism did not come into being until after Calvin, and not even Calvin would have called himself a Calvinist!

Good point evanman, we agree. I only call myself a calvinist because people like to label...thank you and God bless you for not being one them...God shines in your posts...(even when we disagree.)

 

[Adams son]

Anyone who can read Romans 9 and still not believe in God and God alone for salvation, now that's beyond me.

Only if you put your Calvy glasses on first in order to make sure Romans 9 is read and interpreted to fit Calvinist creeds.

Now can you explain a coupla things here?

1. Why did Paul write to the born again Galatians that they would reap eternal destruction if they sowed to the flesh?

2. Why did Paul warn the Galatians who had began in the Spirit that if they continued in their present behavior that they would not enter the Kingdom of God?

 

[notaxbill]

Anyone who can read Romans 9 and still not believe in God and God alone for salvation, now that's beyond me.

Only if you put your Calvy glasses on first in order to make sure Romans 9 is read and interpreted to fit Calvinist creeds.

Now can you explain a coupla things here?

1. Why did Paul write to the born again Galatians that they would reap eternal destruction if they sowed to the flesh?

2. Why did Paul warn the Galatians who had began in the Spirit that if they continued in their present behavior that they would not enter the Kingdom of God?

I believe if you study further Paul talks a lot about the distruction of the
flesh I don't believe he means eternal damnation. A man is saved as
tho going through a wall of fire . his works will be burned up he shall
be saved.
Now if a man is not saved he is not siver or gold but hay and stubble
then these shall be burned up. You will come back and say I miss the
real point. The truth is out there if you want to condem people to
dante's inferno type hell then you will if you wish to see eternal distruction
that to you can find. which is right. I go with the second one.

 

[Adams son]

Anyone who can read Romans 9 and still not believe in God and God alone for salvation, now that's beyond me.

Only if you put your Calvy glasses on first in order to make sure Romans 9 is read and interpreted to fit Calvinist creeds.

Now can you explain a coupla things here?

1. Why did Paul write to the born again Galatians that they would reap eternal destruction if they sowed to the flesh?

2. Why did Paul warn the Galatians who had began in the Spirit that if they continued in their present behavior that they would not enter the Kingdom of God?

I believe if you study further Paul talks a lot about the distruction of the
flesh I don't believe he means eternal damnation. A man is saved as
tho going through a wall of fire . his works will be burned up he shall
be saved.
Now if a man is not saved he is not siver or gold but hay and stubble
then these shall be burned up. You will come back and say I miss the
real point. The truth is out there if you want to condem people to
dante's inferno type hell then you will if you wish to see eternal distruction
that to you can find. which is right. I go with the second one.

Unfortunately for the Calvinist, Paul in Galatians 6:7-8 contrasts eternal life with eternal destruction. What he means is rather obvious.

Now why would Paul warn born again believers that they might reap eternal destruction and not enter the Kingdom of God?

 

[notaxbill]

The church of Galatia, the Elect Children of the Sovereign God who predestined all things to happen just as they happen, predestined to be born anew monergistically by Him through the particular redemption of his Son for the Elect, effectually called to grace and secure in Christ for eternity.

To Paul, the man who represents himself as an apostle of Christ. Grace and peace to you.

We are astonished and amazed by your last epistle which at first came to us with great joy. But alas! Upon reading your message our joy did quickly turn into great sorrow. You warn us that we may not enter the kingdom of God? How can you say such things to the elect of God! Do you not know that we were chosen by Him for glory before the creation of the world? You warn us, the elect, that God cannot be mocked and that we will reap what we sow! From where do these words come? Do you not know that we are predestined for the kingdom of heaven by God and this destiny is not changeable? How can you say that if we sow to the flesh we will reap destruction? How can you say to us that we will not reap eternal life but eternal destruction if we sow to the flesh? Do you not know that we are the elect and destruction is not our destiny and we already have eternal life? Do you not know we are eternally secure? How can you give such warnings to us? Dear Paul, are you perhaps a reprobate?

I remind you that you said in your letter that we ourselves had 'began in the Spirit.' You yourself reminded us that miracles were done among us through Him supplying the Spirit to us. You yourself reminded us that we are sons of God having been clothed with Christ and because we are sons of God, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts who cries 'Abba Father.' You yourself reminded us in this selfsame letter that we were children of the promise who had been set free. You yourself admit that we were born anew. You yourself even admit that you were witnesses of these things when you were among us.

And now you warn us that we have turned to another gospel and will not enter the kingdom of heaven and we may rather reap destruction based on our behavior rather than God's Sovereign election? How can you tell such a bold lie dearest Paul? Do you seek to deceive us with such falsehoods? For do you yourself not know that we who are saved cannot possibly end in the flesh? Surely, you know. Do you not know that it is impossible for us not to enter the kingdom of God, we who have began in the Spirit? What sense can your words ever make to us? For we all know that we who have been born again cannot escape entering the kingdom of God. For God chose us to heaven and our behavior between now and then cannot change our destiny since it was determined before the creation of the world. Are you not aware of five point Calvinism?

Therefore, we can only hope that your letter is a result of drinking too much of that Macedonian wine dear friend. Else we fear that you were never saved in the first place and we wonder how it is that God used you to bring us the gospel. We can only pray that no unsuspecting men consider your letter to our Galatian church as inspired by God. For it is impossible for us who were once born again to end up in any other place than heaven and such warnings to us that we children of the promise might not enter the kingdom of God have no partnership with reality. Your letter to us, the Galatian Church, cannot be the word of God. Paul, we suggest you study five point Calvinism.

You have touched on the main subject of works and grace.
Most christians can not believe that God is in total control even to the
point of who will be in the first resurrection and who will be in the last
I was home reading matt 5 thru 7 not looking for salvation at all
when out loud for some reason I said this is the truth this the
way things should be and wham I got it I was cleaned up on the spot.
I was reading the bible because I was bored .

 

[evanman]

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Adams son]

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Let us identify the "they" of 2 Peter 2:20.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers AMONG YOU, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

 

[serapha]

[quote="Adams son":897d9]

Anyone who can read Romans 9 and still not believe in God and God alone for salvation, now that's beyond me.

Only if you put your Calvy glasses on first in order to make sure Romans 9 is read and interpreted to fit Calvinist creeds.

Now can you explain a coupla things here?

1. Why did Paul write to the born again Galatians that they would reap eternal destruction if they sowed to the flesh?

2. Why did Paul warn the Galatians who had began in the Spirit that if they continued in their present behavior that they would not enter the Kingdom of God?

I believe if you study further Paul talks a lot about the distruction of the
flesh I don't believe he means eternal damnation. A man is saved as
tho going through a wall of fire . his works will be burned up he shall
be saved.
Now if a man is not saved he is not siver or gold but hay and stubble
then these shall be burned up. You will come back and say I miss the
real point. The truth is out there if you want to condem people to
dante's inferno type hell then you will if you wish to see eternal distruction
that to you can find. which is right. I go with the second one.

Unfortunately for the Calvinist, Paul in Galatians 6:7-8 contrasts eternal life with eternal destruction. What he means is rather obvious.

Now why would Paul warn born again believers that they might reap eternal destruction and not enter the Kingdom of God?[/quote:897d9]

Hi there!

:smt039


6:7
Don't be deceived: God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows he will also reap,
6:8
because the one who sows to his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.


First of all, you have assumed that while the letter is to the church in Galatia, that all of the members of the church are believers by faith in Jesus Christ. That certainly would not be the case as the Jewish zealots had infiltrated the church with false teachings. That was the problem which was the purpose of the epistle.

Second, "For whatever a man sows that will he reap"... is an proverb which is truth to all people, but there is no distinction that the "man" is eqated to "believer"... again an assumption on your part. Paul is speaking in the imperative when he says "don't be deceived"... and the "you" would be to all of the church of Galatia, true believers and those who were false teachers who were in the church.

because the one who sows to his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.

Again... there can be no assumption that all of the members of the Galatian church were true believers, else there would never have been a reason to send this epistle. But the truth remains... one who sow to his flesh will reap corruption, and the corruption in Greek related to context, so in this case the corruption is relative to the flesh, the decay of the physical body.

And following in verse 9, Paul says that we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. There is no implication there that without a harvest that one is lost, but simply that there is no "gain". Not giving up will produce a harvest, a gain from the previous sowing.


~serapha~

 

[serapha]

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

HI there!


Is the term "known" supposed to mean that they were converts to Christianity? am I to understand that? Knowing about Christ and knowing Christ personally are two differenct concepts. Right?



~serapha~

 

[Khristeeanos]

Is the term "known" supposed to mean that they were converts to Christianity? am I to understand that? Knowing about Christ and knowing Christ personally are two differenct concepts. Right?

The context of the passage has both of these people in mind. Those who know about Christ and those who know Christ personally.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Note that in verse 22 we read the dog turned to the vomit again. These are non-converts who have an apparent relationship with Christ.

The second example is a sow that was washed. These are actual converts to Christianity.


They were *WASHED* and the only way to be washed in to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus.