Yes, one personally.
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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Wearing the right shoes, and properly clothed spiritually?
Join Elected By Him for a devotional on Ephesians 6:14-15
https://christianforums.net/threads/devotional-selecting-the-proper-shoes.109094/
23 Minutes In Hell (video)
- Thread starter lesjude
- Start date
westtexas
Member
I'd like to hear about it. Can you tell us a little more?
Please read my testimony thread "Testimony/Normal Christianity"
This sounds like 7th Day Adventist cult doctrine i.e. soul sleep and no eternal punishment of the wicked. I am sure when the demons come for them at death to take them to the evil side of sheol they will give all the proof texts why this is not possible and should not be happening.^
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THIS
If you are just confused on these issues I will gladly give many verses to indicate the above stated errors are wrong.
Where are the Patriarchs, Daniel and David are they not gathered unto there people in Sheol and now sleep awaiting to be awakened? Sheol is Sheol, scripturally very little information is given. We know it has gates, locks, boundaries, its segragated, and dark tnere is no thougt or knowledge there. Though at times some are given the gift to rejoice when enemies are defeated.
The idea 'good' people go to heaven and 'bad' people go to hell is, well, very Greek to me.
But please give your references.
Where the word sleep is used to describe death in the Bible to mean death it is a figure of speech for the appearance the body as of one sleeping.
Here are the scriptures that state one is awake and aware in the intermediate state in either the dark/punishment part of sheol or in shoel/paradise:
Matthew 17:1-3, Luke 16:19-31, Luke 23:40-43, Philippians 1:21-23, 2 Corinthians 5:1-9, Psalm 73:24, Revelation 6:9-11
It has nothing to do with good or bad as to where one goes. It is dependent on if one receives Jesus as His Lord and savior or not. The thief on the cross did, but it is not advisable to wait as long as He did. Luke 23:39-43. It also indicates both would be awake and aware in paradise.
Hi lesjude,
Ok it seems then we agree when we die we go down to Sheol. You say there are two sides to it one the paradise side the other a dark/punishment side where on either side people are aware of their place. And you base this upon the letters of the 'new' testement.
Speaking for myself, I tend to think the scriptures we must search are the ones which were available to the Bereans, namely the teachings currently found in the Tanakh. Now I dont really know what to say about the idea of a two part sheol other than what I found in scripture which states there is no work, nor scheme, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, to which you are going.. It is simple enough for me to understand nothing goes on there, it is nighty nighty tucked in tighty. A place where the soul will sleep until it is awakened and we are joined to our bodies to face judgment.
Paradise that is what I think might be confusing. I dont think Paradise is heaven nor is it some ethreal plane or a part of Sheol. Being created in the image of God I believe means Adam and Eve were created immortal. Wd were designed to have an eternal relationship with the Father in and dwell in the Paradise he created for us and I believe Paradise was the Garden of Eden.
When Yeshua said to the malefactor today you will be with me in Paradise. It was a promise he made to him. A promise which ithink means that on the day of the ressurection that malefactor will be counted among the rightoues. However the ressurection has yet to happen and that malefactor is still resting in sheol but he is it seems assured a place in Paradise and will live forever as men were intended to live.
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell in it for ever.
Ok it seems then we agree when we die we go down to Sheol. You say there are two sides to it one the paradise side the other a dark/punishment side where on either side people are aware of their place. And you base this upon the letters of the 'new' testement.
Speaking for myself, I tend to think the scriptures we must search are the ones which were available to the Bereans, namely the teachings currently found in the Tanakh. Now I dont really know what to say about the idea of a two part sheol other than what I found in scripture which states there is no work, nor scheme, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in Sheol, to which you are going.. It is simple enough for me to understand nothing goes on there, it is nighty nighty tucked in tighty. A place where the soul will sleep until it is awakened and we are joined to our bodies to face judgment.
Paradise that is what I think might be confusing. I dont think Paradise is heaven nor is it some ethreal plane or a part of Sheol. Being created in the image of God I believe means Adam and Eve were created immortal. Wd were designed to have an eternal relationship with the Father in and dwell in the Paradise he created for us and I believe Paradise was the Garden of Eden.
When Yeshua said to the malefactor today you will be with me in Paradise. It was a promise he made to him. A promise which ithink means that on the day of the ressurection that malefactor will be counted among the rightoues. However the ressurection has yet to happen and that malefactor is still resting in sheol but he is it seems assured a place in Paradise and will live forever as men were intended to live.
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell in it for ever.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Some how i read Peter saying this is the prophecy completed not so much one to come...
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Some how i read Peter saying this is the prophecy completed not so much one to come...
The OT Jews had a very limited knowledge of the intermediate state. See Luke 20:27-40. It also clearly says they are awake and aware and made an appearance with Jesus. see Mark 9:1-13. It seems you did not read or study the OT/NT passages I gave you.
What part of "today" in the passage is not clear?
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Elijah674
Guest
I find your 2 Cor. 4:2 remark bordering on much love! 'that we are all like 7th Day Adventist!' (and being very 'cute';)) It must be because you think that they are hated, huh? so here comes your very sound assesment!
--Elijah
The 7th day Adventists do not have the doctrine of Christ so they come under 2 John 7-11. They say Christ's atonement is unfinished. They also put themselves under the curse of the law by saying some of it must be kept for salvation, teach annihilation instead of eternal punishment and soul sleep.I find your 2 Cor. 4:2 remark bordering on much love! 'that we are all like 7th Day Adventist!' (and being very 'cute';)) It must be because you think that they are hated, huh? so here comes your very sound assesment!
--Elijah
Not hated but they are deceived/deceivers very in much in need of salvation.
The limited knowledge of an intermediate state?. Limited knowledge of sheol stems from the fact limited scriptural information is given about sheol. This has lead many of the ancient and modern sages to reason that what is done life is more important than what is done in death.
Now if you claim to have more knowledge, fine. But I am still obligated to search the same scriptures the Bereans did to see if what you say is so. You speak of awarness and two sides to sheol. I find sheol has gates, chains, locks, it segregated according to the people who go there and its dark. No knowledge work or wisdom happens which in essence means to me you are asleep. Hence the well known term rest in peace.
But if you believe the stories found in the new testement then be my guest. But keep in mind if you do then it stands to reason you have a contradiction on your hands. OR they have nothing to do with Sheol and mean something entirely different.
As far as today. I told you my thoughts on that. Yeshua promised today you will be with me in Paradise. It was a promise. Paradise is a physical place on this world or it was atleast until the fall. Remember supposedly there will be a new earth and we will be given new bodies. And we well dwell on earth (not heaven, or flitting about in some ethereal plane or intermediate state) forever.
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Yes!!