A decidedly un-Christian response to homosexuality

[DarkHorseRising]

Okay, so I've noticed a lot of posts on here about homosexuality, and I thought I'd post this in a new thread rather than hijack another, or cut and paste a long rambling manifesto.

Rather than a "Christian" response to homosexuality, I'm posting my thoughts on a "how to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with people involved in homosexuality" perspective. Just some thoughts from my experience as a theological Christian who has several good friends involved in homosexuality. This is written with a perspective towards the best way to ultimately share the Gospel with someone involved in this situation and have them come towards Christ.

1. They already know the Bible's position on homosexuality. I promise you, if they live in the USA, Europe, or almost any first world, English speaking country, they are already well aware of it. Reminding them about this fact does nothing except put them on the defensive and increase the distance between you. I'm aware that there is scriptural support for informing people of their sinful ways; however if they already know it's a sin, you aren't going to "double inform" them. They didn't forget, I promise. At some point the conversation will come up organically.

2. Understand that their sexual orientation does not define them. Just as you're not "Bob, that straight guy", they are more than their sexuality. They also have interests, hobbies, jobs, bills to pay, friends, family, and thoughts. If you focus on nothing but one single sinful area, they're not going to take you seriously or allow you into their life. Get to know the real them, show that you care and see them as the complete person that God made them to be; not as the one sinful area that you're tempted to focus on. Nobody will listen to a Gospel preached by someone who doesn't even superficially see them as a human being.

3. Make it clear that this is not an unforgivable sin, nor is it the ultimate sin. Given some of the rhetoric festering in Christian circles, this may be a challenging perception to overcome. When you do have a talk about it, you should make it clear that sin is endemic to the human race. Their sin is not more displeasing to God than your sins are, or your pastor's sins, or the Pope's sins.

This one is really big, because we're not sharing God's love with others from a position of superiority, or as a handpicked elite. We're all fallen, we're all sinful. Every one of us struggles with sin. Some sins are more easily hidden, but they are all there and they're not less serious.

4. Accept that this will possibly be a lifetime struggle for them. Don't be a cut-and-run Christian; nobody benefits from a drive-by sermon. if you care enough about this person to help them as a brother/sister in Christ, be there for them. They'll undoubtedly have better moments than others. Recall how many mistakes we all make that we're ashamed of God seeing. If we can be forgiven and God has a plan for us, why not them?

5. Love the sinner, hate the sin. This is the most important, yet I saved it for last. There truly is a middle ground between condoning their behavior and writing them off as a lost cause for Satan to receive.




So yes, these are entirely my opinions, and you're welcome to take them or leave them. If, however, they go strongly against what people think is correct, I'd encourage them to ask just what is their motivation when dealing with the homosexuality issue? Is it to enjoy their perceived status relative to them, or is it to sincerely help people?

Honestly (and I know there's no way to stop you) but if you're just going to go ahead and throw around proclamations about how unhealthy/sick/evil/wrong homosexuality is, you're better off just dropping the issue and leaving it for other believers who have a reasonable chance of actually connecting with them.

Now, let's see how long before this post gets deleted and I get banned :P

 

[Former Christian]

DarkHorseRising

Before it gets banned, I just want to say that I agree fully with what you said. Gay people, Christian or not, are people just like anyone else. And Christians need to realize that before they go off half-cocked with a sermon against them. My close gay friend is an Atheist. One of many Atheists who are my close friends. She just happens to be also gay. Her problems and victories aren't any worse or better than any Christians that I know. Gays are people too. Just as Christians are. Just as gay Christians are. Christians have no right to judge them for a sin that is no worse than their own.

FC

 

[Mike S]

Okay, so I've noticed a lot of posts on here about homosexuality, and I thought I'd post this in a new thread rather than hijack another, or cut and paste a long rambling manifesto.

Rather than a "Christian" response to homosexuality, I'm posting my thoughts on a "how to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with people involved in homosexuality" perspective. Just some thoughts from my experience as a theological Christian who has several good friends involved in homosexuality. This is written with a perspective towards the best way to ultimately share the Gospel with someone involved in this situation and have them come towards Christ.

1. They already know the Bible's position on homosexuality. I promise you, if they live in the USA, Europe, or almost any first world, English speaking country, they are already well aware of it. Reminding them about this fact does nothing except put them on the defensive and increase the distance between you. I'm aware that there is scriptural support for informing people of their sinful ways; however if they already know it's a sin, you aren't going to "double inform" them. They didn't forget, I promise. At some point the conversation will come up organically.

2. Understand that their sexual orientation does not define them. Just as you're not "Bob, that straight guy", they are more than their sexuality. They also have interests, hobbies, jobs, bills to pay, friends, family, and thoughts. If you focus on nothing but one single sinful area, they're not going to take you seriously or allow you into their life. Get to know the real them, show that you care and see them as the complete person that God made them to be; not as the one sinful area that you're tempted to focus on. Nobody will listen to a Gospel preached by someone who doesn't even superficially see them as a human being.

3. Make it clear that this is not an unforgivable sin, nor is it the ultimate sin. Given some of the rhetoric festering in Christian circles, this may be a challenging perception to overcome. When you do have a talk about it, you should make it clear that sin is endemic to the human race. Their sin is not more displeasing to God than your sins are, or your pastor's sins, or the Pope's sins.

This one is really big, because we're not sharing God's love with others from a position of superiority, or as a handpicked elite. We're all fallen, we're all sinful. Every one of us struggles with sin. Some sins are more easily hidden, but they are all there and they're not less serious.

4. Accept that this will possibly be a lifetime struggle for them. Don't be a cut-and-run Christian; nobody benefits from a drive-by sermon. if you care enough about this person to help them as a brother/sister in Christ, be there for them. They'll undoubtedly have better moments than others. Recall how many mistakes we all make that we're ashamed of God seeing. If we can be forgiven and God has a plan for us, why not them?

5. Love the sinner, hate the sin. This is the most important, yet I saved it for last. There truly is a middle ground between condoning their behavior and writing them off as a lost cause for Satan to receive.




So yes, these are entirely my opinions, and you're welcome to take them or leave them. If, however, they go strongly against what people think is correct, I'd encourage them to ask just what is their motivation when dealing with the homosexuality issue? Is it to enjoy their perceived status relative to them, or is it to sincerely help people?

Honestly (and I know there's no way to stop you) but if you're just going to go ahead and throw around proclamations about how unhealthy/sick/evil/wrong homosexuality is, you're better off just dropping the issue and leaving it for other believers who have a reasonable chance of actually connecting with them.

Now, let's see how long before this post gets deleted and I get banned :P

I doubt you'll be banned. These opinions are shared by many of us here, and have been expressed before.

 

[Kidron]

Okay, so I've noticed a lot of posts on here about homosexuality, and I thought I'd post this in a new thread rather than hijack another, or cut and paste a long rambling manifesto.

Rather than a "Christian" response to homosexuality, I'm posting my thoughts on a "how to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with people involved in homosexuality" perspective. Just some thoughts from my experience as a theological Christian who has several good friends involved in homosexuality. This is written with a perspective towards the best way to ultimately share the Gospel with someone involved in this situation and have them come towards Christ.

1. They already know the Bible's position on homosexuality. I promise you, if they live in the USA, Europe, or almost any first world, English speaking country, they are already well aware of it. Reminding them about this fact does nothing except put them on the defensive and increase the distance between you. I'm aware that there is scriptural support for informing people of their sinful ways; however if they already know it's a sin, you aren't going to "double inform" them. They didn't forget, I promise. At some point the conversation will come up organically.

2. Understand that their sexual orientation does not define them. Just as you're not "Bob, that straight guy", they are more than their sexuality. They also have interests, hobbies, jobs, bills to pay, friends, family, and thoughts. If you focus on nothing but one single sinful area, they're not going to take you seriously or allow you into their life. Get to know the real them, show that you care and see them as the complete person that God made them to be; not as the one sinful area that you're tempted to focus on. Nobody will listen to a Gospel preached by someone who doesn't even superficially see them as a human being.

3. Make it clear that this is not an unforgivable sin, nor is it the ultimate sin. Given some of the rhetoric festering in Christian circles, this may be a challenging perception to overcome. When you do have a talk about it, you should make it clear that sin is endemic to the human race. Their sin is not more displeasing to God than your sins are, or your pastor's sins, or the Pope's sins.

This one is really big, because we're not sharing God's love with others from a position of superiority, or as a handpicked elite. We're all fallen, we're all sinful. Every one of us struggles with sin. Some sins are more easily hidden, but they are all there and they're not less serious.

4. Accept that this will possibly be a lifetime struggle for them. Don't be a cut-and-run Christian; nobody benefits from a drive-by sermon. if you care enough about this person to help them as a brother/sister in Christ, be there for them. They'll undoubtedly have better moments than others. Recall how many mistakes we all make that we're ashamed of God seeing. If we can be forgiven and God has a plan for us, why not them?

5. Love the sinner, hate the sin. This is the most important, yet I saved it for last. There truly is a middle ground between condoning their behavior and writing them off as a lost cause for Satan to receive.




So yes, these are entirely my opinions, and you're welcome to take them or leave them. If, however, they go strongly against what people think is correct, I'd encourage them to ask just what is their motivation when dealing with the homosexuality issue? Is it to enjoy their perceived status relative to them, or is it to sincerely help people?

Honestly (and I know there's no way to stop you) but if you're just going to go ahead and throw around proclamations about how unhealthy/sick/evil/wrong homosexuality is, you're better off just dropping the issue and leaving it for other believers who have a reasonable chance of actually connecting with them.

Now, let's see how long before this post gets deleted and I get banned :P

Years ago i was working with a homosexual whose name is Gary.
He's dead now, along with his lover Doug.
At the time i met Gary he was about 56, and had been very active in the homosexual lifesyle for probably 40 years.
He was quite proud of his particular orientation and enjoyed letting "straight" people know that he was gay.
He had worked in 2 of the most famous discos in the 70s as a waiter and had met every star and had story after story.
He was a very smart person, very gifted, with a fabulous sense of humor..'
Dry, very English, very witty.
I recall that he could recite entire chapters from the book of John, and he had the entire "12step program" memorized.
I spoke with him a lot about his need to stop his lifestyle and of course i spoke with him about the Lord, salvation, and the bible.
Like most homosexuals, he could defend his lifestyle using scriptures, or by claiming that most of the bible scriptures related to homosexuality being a sin, were "misinterpreted", etc.
I never talked to him about Sodom & Gomorrah, but im certain that like most homosexuals who are familiar with Genesis, they just assume its a myth, or a mistranslation, or an allegory.
I happen to live in Israel, and ive been to the the site.
Its a real place, discovered and excavated not that long ago,...and its several feet deep in ashes where long ago something burned the place to a crisp.
This of course is not polite speech these days, and so, i wont pursue it.

And regarding homosexuals......well, God would that all men would come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, and this certainly applies to all alternative lifestyle people...asap.
There are ministries which are devoted to helping them escape their addictive sexual lifestyle and many former homosexuals are now out in public for years now talking about how they were delivered from this issue.

Gary was very lonli as he got older, and he always had a deep sense that he was really not accepted in society.
I suspect that this is par for the course regarding even the most "adjusted" homosexual.
He died alone in a hotel room in New Orleans.
His lover Doug was found murdered.

 

[heymikey80]

More in qualification than anything else, I agree, homosexual people are people first. My discussions about God's view of homosexuality are more to clarify God's position than anything else. If I'm not a friend who's going to be listened-to, then what I say doesn't matter, either. And I've no negative reaction to being considered a "friend of sinners"; I'm just another beggar saying where to find bread.

That said, no one I know who is homosexual studies what God's Word says in particular about homosexuality. They hear what people summarize about what God's Word says. So I make it a huge point not to summarize, but to quote what Scripture says, and evaluate carefully what homosexuals ask regarding what Scripture says.

I've also found that homosexuals are not certain whether homosexuality defines or does not define them. To me the important thing here is to value people as people, while recognizing sin as sin. Unless you're treating the promiscuous, the adulterous, and the homosexual the exact same way, you're not dealing with homosexuals aright. And unless you're dealing with yourself that exact same way you're a hypocrite.

Sexual sin is forgivable. Homosexuality involves a whole lot of rejection, and being a sin it's not an exception in going through Christ's redemptive process. However, you are indeed dealing with someone who's particularly aware of other people's rejection. I've made it a habit of being clear about both sin and redemption from sin. One cannot go without the other.

Finally, ultimatums are not a way to deal with a lifelong problem. God defines the line beyond which sin is not forgiven, and that occurs at the Last Day. That may be today. But as the sun rises on a new day, I see God is not finished with forgiveness just yet. It is not my responsibility to bring on the Last Day judgment early -- just to warn about it, and to continue the news of redemption from Christ.

 

[reba]

5. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Yup
something to note in this forever ongoing discussion. The difference between the individual and the political movement.

The 'sinner' is the individual the 'sin' is the movement.

 

[westtexas]

This is written with a perspective towards the best way to ultimately share the Gospel with someone involved in this situation and have them come towards Christ.

1. They already know the Bible's position on homosexuality.

DarkHorse, I agree with you to a certain extent but somewhere in our thoughts I believe our beliefs are going to diverge from each other. I won't debate the sin of homosexuality with an unbeliever because, just as you have stated above, they need to come to Christ first. The sin of homosexuality is also acceptable in the secular world because, unfortunately, government is no longer founded upon biblical principals. (But that's another thread altogether).

It's within the church where my problem lies. Homosexuality has become an acceptable practice within todays church and Christians are chastized (from within the church) for speaking out against it. We are labeled as insensitive, racist, bigots, etc...you fill in the blank. While we are are obligated to stand behind the laws of the land, I also believe that as Christians, we should be stating that ANY law homosexual or not, that goes against the Word is wrong. We (as Christians) should not be stating that anybody has a "right" to do anything that goes against scripture. The law of the land may give someone permission but God's Word says NO.

Again, I don't want you to think that I believe their sins are worse than mine. They are not. All of us sin everyday. Their sins are simply different than mine. But the difference is the church will tell you that my sins are just what they are-sins. But it is OK in today's church to have openly gay clergy. If these same clergy were adulterers, alcoholics, thiefs, etc, they would not have their positions long.

I don't articulate my thoughts well sometimes but I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Any thoughts?
Westtexas

 

[DarkHorseRising]

It's within the church where my problem lies. Homosexuality has become an acceptable practice within todays church and Christians are chastized (from within the church) for speaking out against it. We are labeled as insensitive, racist, bigots, etc...you fill in the blank. While we are are obligated to stand behind the laws of the land, I also believe that as Christians, we should be stating that ANY law homosexual or not, that goes against the Word is wrong. We (as Christians) should not be stating that anybody has a "right" to do anything that goes against scripture. The law of the land may give someone permission but God's Word says NO.

See, I known this is a problem with some churches, but others go too far the other way. Like, the Episcopal/Anglican communion, one of the two Lutheran branches, the United church in Canada, perform gay marriage ceremonies or otherwise condone the behavior. That's clearly wrong and should be called out (unlike individuals, I find nothing wrong in badgering an institution) because they're encouraging sinful behavior.

Then, on the other hand, you have some Baptist churches (Westboro comes to mind, but there's others), and a lot of very conservative denominations that will simply ban homosexuals from attending service and shun them. These institutions also need to be called out, because they're never going to win anyone over to Christ by driving them away.

I said it before and I really like the saying: Love the sinner, hate the sin. In the first example, "progressive" churches are forgetting to hate the sin. In the second example, they're not loving the sinner. Only when both are satisfied will you reach people.

 

[Jesusfreak97]

Okay, so I've noticed a lot of posts on here about homosexuality, and I thought I'd post this in a new thread rather than hijack another, or cut and paste a long rambling manifesto.

Rather than a "Christian" response to homosexuality, I'm posting my thoughts on a "how to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with people involved in homosexuality" perspective. Just some thoughts from my experience as a theological Christian who has several good friends involved in homosexuality. This is written with a perspective towards the best way to ultimately share the Gospel with someone involved in this situation and have them come towards Christ.

1. They already know the Bible's position on homosexuality. I promise you, if they live in the USA, Europe, or almost any first world, English speaking country, they are already well aware of it. Reminding them about this fact does nothing except put them on the defensive and increase the distance between you. I'm aware that there is scriptural support for informing people of their sinful ways; however if they already know it's a sin, you aren't going to "double inform" them. They didn't forget, I promise. At some point the conversation will come up organically.

2. Understand that their sexual orientation does not define them. Just as you're not "Bob, that straight guy", they are more than their sexuality. They also have interests, hobbies, jobs, bills to pay, friends, family, and thoughts. If you focus on nothing but one single sinful area, they're not going to take you seriously or allow you into their life. Get to know the real them, show that you care and see them as the complete person that God made them to be; not as the one sinful area that you're tempted to focus on. Nobody will listen to a Gospel preached by someone who doesn't even superficially see them as a human being.

3. Make it clear that this is not an unforgivable sin, nor is it the ultimate sin. Given some of the rhetoric festering in Christian circles, this may be a challenging perception to overcome. When you do have a talk about it, you should make it clear that sin is endemic to the human race. Their sin is not more displeasing to God than your sins are, or your pastor's sins, or the Pope's sins.

This one is really big, because we're not sharing God's love with others from a position of superiority, or as a handpicked elite. We're all fallen, we're all sinful. Every one of us struggles with sin. Some sins are more easily hidden, but they are all there and they're not less serious.

4. Accept that this will possibly be a lifetime struggle for them. Don't be a cut-and-run Christian; nobody benefits from a drive-by sermon. if you care enough about this person to help them as a brother/sister in Christ, be there for them. They'll undoubtedly have better moments than others. Recall how many mistakes we all make that we're ashamed of God seeing. If we can be forgiven and God has a plan for us, why not them?

5. Love the sinner, hate the sin. This is the most important, yet I saved it for last. There truly is a middle ground between condoning their behavior and writing them off as a lost cause for Satan to receive.




So yes, these are entirely my opinions, and you're welcome to take them or leave them. If, however, they go strongly against what people think is correct, I'd encourage them to ask just what is their motivation when dealing with the homosexuality issue? Is it to enjoy their perceived status relative to them, or is it to sincerely help people?

Honestly (and I know there's no way to stop you) but if you're just going to go ahead and throw around proclamations about how unhealthy/sick/evil/wrong homosexuality is, you're better off just dropping the issue and leaving it for other believers who have a reasonable chance of actually connecting with them.

Now, let's see how long before this post gets deleted and I get banned :P

Dude! I love this! So true! You deffinitly have this down! :D

 

[handy]

Love the sinner, hate the sin. In the first example, "progressive" churches are forgetting to hate the sin. In the second example, they're not loving the sinner. Only when both are satisfied will you reach people.

Yes, yes, and yes!!!!!!

Bears repeating:

Love the sinner, hate the sin. In the first example, "progressive" churches are forgetting to hate the sin. In the second example, they're not loving the sinner. Only when both are satisfied will you reach people.