A different interpretaion of REVELATION 12:4

[VirginShallConceive]

So, you are saying that GOD condemned the serpent without a trial, unlike Adam and Eve who had a trial?

God condemned all three, basically in the same breath.

Trial? Where are you reading from?

 

[enlightened]

God condemned all three, basically in the same breath.

Trial? Where are you reading from?

Do you not find it convienient that all three happen to be together at once, given you believe there were three, and not two, as i believe. Did GOD not ask Adam for his testimokny of what he had done? And did GOD not ask Eve also. Are these not trials?
(GEN3). Again, if Adam is not the serpent, the it seems the LORD GOD condemned the serpent without a trial. Is this Just, according to scripture? God is just, and must always be so; therefore, the only way GOD can be just is condemning the serpent right after Eve implicated him in her deception is if Adam is the serpent. And the judgment against the serpent is the curse of sin on the soul, for the serpent was the soul of Adam.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

There is nothing ins Scripture that speaks of spiritual death.

So when God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17) and that if he did, he would "surely die," He lied? Because Adam certainly didn't die physically when he ate. The only other choice is that He died spiritually.

Ephesians 4 NASB
17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;
​

What is the "life of God" if not spiritual life? Men walking around in the flesh who have no life in Christ are dead inside. Period. That is spiritual death. If there were no spiritual death, then being "born again" would be meaningless.

Ephesians 21 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
​

How were you dead before knowing Christ, if not spiritually? Surely not physically? Did He resurrect you from physical death? Of course not! Still in Ephesians 2 ...

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),​

Christ can exist in heaven in the flesh and in the spirit simultaneously, but we cannot. Flesh must be cast off to enter heaven. We are ready for heaven now, as we are alive spiritually.

Your comment is obviously in error.

 

[gr8grace]

So when God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:17) and that if he did, he would "surely die," He lied? Because Adam certainly didn't die physically when he ate. The only other choice is that He died spiritually.

Ephesians 4 NASB
17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;
​

What is the "life of God" if not spiritual life? Men walking around in the flesh who have no life in Christ are dead inside. Period. That is spiritual death. If there were no spiritual death, then being "born again" would be meaningless.

Ephesians 21 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
​

How were you dead before knowing Christ, if not spiritually? Surely not physically? Did He resurrect you from physical death? Of course not! Still in Ephesians 2 ...

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),​

Christ can exist in heaven in the flesh and in the spirit simultaneously, but we cannot. Flesh must be cast off to enter heaven. We are ready for heaven now, as we are alive spiritually.

Your comment is obviously in error.

Spot on! I have never had to use your little "bang head here" bullseye yet from what you have said!

I wanted to point out one more thing from Gen 2:17 In going back to the original Hebrew the verse says," and dying you shall surely die." pointing to the first instant death that is spiritual, and then physical death Later on. Which is Gods Grace. letting Adam and Eve live on with the chance to believe Again, The Christ was on His way.

 

[Vanguard]

Has anyone even considered that humans might initially have been immortal, until the fruit was eaten? Is it possible that at THAT point, God gave us a lifespan with numbered days, and when He said "you will surely die" He was not referring to an immdeiate physical death, but an eventual physical death one day in the future?

Just a thought.

 

[gr8grace]

Has anyone even considered that humans might initially have been immortal, until the fruit was eaten? Is it possible that at THAT point, God gave us a lifespan with numbered days, and when He said "you will surely die" He was not referring to an immdeiate physical death, but an eventual physical death one day in the future?

Just a thought.

Thing is, we ARE immortal. we will never stop existing . The thing that is important is about our eternal destiny. Heaven(Christ) Hell(without Christ).

 

[Vanguard]

Thing is, we ARE immortal. we will never stop existing . The thing that is important is about our eternal destiny. Heaven(Christ) Hell(without Christ).

Here we go again...

On second thought, staying out of it. Not worth the headache. Yes, we will all eventually have a final destination.

 

[gr8grace]

Here we go again...

On second thought, staying out of it. Not worth the headache. Yes, we will all eventually have a final destination.

Van I respect your position and your theories and Do not consider talking to you a Headache, I consider everybody to be worthy and would love all to come to Christ. I just disagree with some of your positions but do not consider talking to you as a headache. You might show me something I have overlooked, and I might have something that you have overlooked.

 

[Guest]

There are multiple scriptures in the OT where in one verse it says a person has a soul and a spirit.

I could post the scriptures from the NT that says we are dead in our spirit until we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

Soul - personality, mind, behaviors (dominated by the habits and thoughts of the old nature before accepting the Savior) and will continue to be but hopefully will have the mind renewed by the Word, and allow the Holy Spirit to teach and guide. Can be affected by Satan if we allow it. Will not be completely sanctified until the resurrection.

Spirit - made alive in Christ, made righteous in Christ, one with the Holy Spirit "Walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh/soul.

Very good Deborah, I would like to add to this If I may..
www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/bible-answer-man/appendix/are-soul-spirit-same.html

The function/spirit of the Holy Spirit is conscience, intuition and communion
The nature/soul of the Holy Spirit is will, mind and emotions
Conclusion - If your spirit of conscience, intuition, and communion isn't aligned with your soul of will, mind and emotions of God the Father then..

 

[Vanguard]

Van I respect your position and your theories...I consider everybody to be worthy and would love all to come to Christ...

I also respect people's positions and opinions.

What I don't like, and not saying you're doing this...just in general, is when people argue from a standpoint that is based off a traditional teaching instead of what the Bible actually says. Just because your pastor told you something long ago, and you've heard it repeated by like minded people, doesn't necessarily make it right, especially if you can't actually find it in the Bible. Then those people quote some verses out of context, liberally apply them to their view, and act as if nothing is wrong.

I have seen that all too often. But that is not the topic.

 

[gr8grace]

I also respect people's positions and opinions.

What I don't like, and not saying you're doing this...just in general, is when people argue from a standpoint that is based off a traditional teaching instead of what the Bible actually says. Just because your pastor told you something long ago, and you've heard it repeated by like minded people, doesn't necessarily make it right, especially if you can't actually find it in the Bible. Then those people quote some verses out of context, liberally apply them to their view, and act as if nothing is wrong.



I have seen that all too often. But that is not the topic.

Fair enough, And you can rebuke me and I will try to give thoughtful insight to what you have said and what I have said. I hear you with the traditional teaching also, because the Church and Its buildings And institutions have basically stopped teaching Bible truth.

 

[enlightened]

Has anyone even considered that humans might initially have been immortal, until the fruit was eaten? Is it possible that at THAT point, God gave us a lifespan with numbered days, and when He said "you will surely die" He was not referring to an immdeiate physical death, but an eventual physical death one day in the future?

Just a thought.

i do not believe humans were made immortal from the Beginning, else why would GOD promise Adam he cold have life eternal for obedience to the Commandment, if Adam already was immortal. i beleive that the fruit from the Tree of Life was the means for Adam to live life eternal (hence its name), as long as Adam could acces its fruit, which was lawful to eat. Furthermore, i believe that the death promised in the Commandment (the TRUTH) was a spiritual death since it occurred that very day, even the very moment Adam's conscience was convicted of sin. Eve's conscience was not so convicted (evidenced by her eyes not being 'opened' when she ate)because she had been deceived into believing that both touching the fruit and eating it were not sin. And once they were DRIVEN from the Garden, they could no longer eat from it, and so began to die.

What is bound in Heaven is also bound on earth (and vice versa); therefore, as Adam died spiritual in the literal day, he also die physically in the LORD's day (1000 years).