A Genuine faith without Born Again Loving OBEDIENCE??

[Elijah674]

Some teach falsely that from Adam before sin on, had no conditions to stay saved. In Rev. 22:18-19 & Eccl. 3:14 we see this CONDITION to even retain a name in the Book of Life was CONDITIONAL!

IN CHRIST means what? Rom. 8:1 & verse 14.
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
.....
[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[14] For as many as are [[led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God]].

Are there NO CONDITIONS SEEN THERE!

And Adam & Eve?
Gen. 3
[7] And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
[8] And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
[9] And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
[10] And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
[11] And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Again, we see a CONDITION for Adam & Eve to stay saved! Think! ‘NAKED & I COMMANDED God said!’ And this was all before they BECAME NAKED! (and LOST!) Naked?? Lets look ahead to Rev. 3:16-17. And in case no one knows who Laodicea were, they were on the scene at the last of Earth’s history & were of the 7 Virgin True Fold Candlesticks in doctrine only. (Rev. 1:19-20)
Rev. 3:16-17

[14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
[15] I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
[16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
[17] BecauI am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

And verse 15 has works being seen for the reason of LUKEWARM Love and rejection + verse 17 [[NAKEDNESS!]] Let find some more on this CONDITION for salvation!
Matt. 22
[1] And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
[2] The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
[3] And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
[4] Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
[5] But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
[6] And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
[7] But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
[8] Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
[9] Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
[10] So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
[11] And when the king came in to see the guests, [[he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment]]
[12] And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
[13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[14] For many are called, but few are chosen.

Only BELIEVE without any conditions is of the devil! (and his Gen. 4:7 desired ones!

)
Heb. 11
[1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
[2] For by it the elders obtained a good report. (they all Obeyed the CONDITIONS! that were freely supplied them per their faith, Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9)
[3] Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
[4] By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
[5] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

And our faith?? The Eccl. 12:13-14 verses will document if we are faithful or not, until then IT IS ONLY BY FAITH!

--Elijah

 

[John O]

Excellent post. Salvation is a free gift but it like all gifts it can be neglected and rejected. A Christian neglects his salvation by thinking that he is saved and can do as he pleases because he is saved. It is rejected when he chooses to not obey the word of God and the promptings of the Holy Spirit. If one continually does this you will reach a point that the small still voice of God is drowned out by the very loud voices of this world and self.

God is very clear that to these people He will send strong delusion that has the effect of them thinking themselves saved when in reality they have doomed themselves through neglect and disobedience.

John O

 

[Elijah674]

Lets just touch on this yet further. The two adult sons of Adam & Eve [were adults]. And until God came to Cain with his message of total REBELLION about to take place, in which He even gave him another chance to repent. And do the correct offering of a Lamb sacrifice! Again Cain was mature. We find in 1 John 5:16-17 & 18 that there is a sin unto death! (and that we are not to pray for it)

How old was Cain, we are not told. But we can see in Gen. 6:3 that it was quite a spell of time that the Holy Spirit 'STROVE' with these pre/flood ones! And surely the builder of the Ark in preaching of his Eternal Gospel that staying outside of the Ark would mean fatal death!

So we find satan with Cain as his full 'FULLTIME' convert. This is how it was stated by God...
Gen.4

[1] And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
[2] And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
[5] But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and [if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.] And [unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.]

Seeing that this is so, surely the devil's first lie has been around since and believed, huh?
[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
[5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
[6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

But how many teach that God did indeed lie?

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

Lets just touch on this yet further. The two adult sons of Adam & Eve [were adults]. And until God came to Cain with his message of total REBELLION about to take place, in which He even gave him another chance to repent. And do the correct offering of a Lamb sacrifice! Again Cain was mature. We find in 1 John 5:16-17 & 18 that there is a sin unto death! (and that we are not to pray for it)

How old was Cain, we are not told. But we can see in Gen. 6:3 that it was quite a spell of time that the Holy Spirit 'STROVE' with these pre/flood ones! And surely the builder of the Ark in preaching of his Eternal Gospel that staying outside of the Ark would mean fatal death!

So we find satan with Cain as his full 'FULLTIME' convert. This is how it was stated by God...
Gen.4

[1] And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
[2] And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
[5] But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and [if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.] And [unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.]

Seeing that this is so, surely the devil's first lie has been around since and believed, huh?
[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
[5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
[6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

But how many teach that God did indeed lie?

--Elijah

Next on satans agenda? Spiritualism as seen in 1 Sam. 28:3-19 is a for play. (of satans first lie told in Gen. 3:4)

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

Aug 30th, 2013 @ 9:38 PM

How about these verses in Eze. 20:25

[24] Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
[25] Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

Then for histories repeat along with Eze.8

[12] Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.

[13] He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.

[14] Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
[15] Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? [[turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these]].

[16] And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Just a quick thought, what day do you do your thing on??

Matt. 15:7-9?
[7] Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
[8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

--Elijah

 

[Sparkey]

I very much agree with you about obedience as a necessary part of our relationship with Jesus. Song of Solomon includes a verse that I think describes his response to our heartfelt love, as shown in our obedience to his heart. He said, "If you love me? Obey my commandments. (John 14:15)"

Here is the quote from the Song: "I am my beloved's, and His desire is toward me." Song of Songs 7:10

I think this is part of the mystery spoken of by Paul when he talks about two becoming one?

 

[Elijah674]

I very much agree with you about obedience as a necessary part of our relationship with Jesus. Song of Solomon includes a verse that I think describes his response to our heartfelt love, as shown in our obedience to his heart. He said, "If you love me? Obey my commandments. (John 14:15)"

Here is the quote from the Song: "I am my beloved's, and His desire is toward me." Song of Songs 7:10

I think this is part of the mystery spoken of by Paul when he talks about two becoming one?

Very good, who that Loves the Lord would not obey him?

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

Can one just think of a Christian bringing an offering for an old testament sacrifice & then after the killing of the lamb, they just instead of going on further, he or they, just went on back home??

--Elijah

 

[Sparkey]

just went on back home??

No, I don't think so. Somehow that reminds me of a parable of the building of a tower, where the work is left unfinished. It suggests that somebody failed to count the cost.

 

[Elijah674]

Excellent post. Salvation is a free gift but it like all gifts it can be neglected and rejected. A Christian neglects his salvation by thinking that he is saved and can do as he pleases because he is saved. It is rejected when he chooses to not obey the word of God and the promptings of the Holy Spirit. If one continually does this you will reach a point that the small still voice of God is drowned out by the very loud voices of this world and self.

God is very clear that to these people He will send strong delusion that has the effect of them thinking themselves saved when in reality they have doomed themselves through neglect and disobedience.

John O

Well how about LOVE in its singular message then? Based on Matt. 22 ...

[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the [[great commandment in the law?]]

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

My question to you John is this any way to know that God requires love?? And when the next verse is read, who knows when one LOVES ANYONE??? edited , except by the Lords First duty?

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...who knows when one LOVES ANYONE???

except by the Lords First duty?

How does that prove anything?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I suspect, Elijah674, that your struggle with this may be from the fact that you can't help but to think of love for others in human terms....that is mushy feelings. But that is NOT what it means to love others in a practical and meaningful manner. Though it's entirely acceptable that you could love someone according to the practical way the Bible describes and do it with feelings and emotions.

This is how we love others (do them no harm--Romans 13:10 NASB):

"...love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control..." (Galatians 5:22-23 NASB)

It's the hardest thing you'll do as a Christian. That's why these are the mark of the Christian who has the Spirit of God in them to enable them to do these things, not the 'do-good' unbeliever and atheist who doesn't have the Spirit.

When we take a break (a rest) from the hurtful deeds of the flesh (a.k.a our work) we show that we have the transforming power of the Holy Spirit in us through a born-again relationship with God. That's why love is the sign of being in covenant with God, of which literal circumcision and literal Sabbath keeping were only illustrations of.

The 'putting off of the flesh' in literal circumcision and literal Sabbath keeping represent the true circumcision and Sabbath that God commands. The real circumcision and Sabbath rest is the laying aside and putting off of our evil fleshly works (pride, lust, hatred, envy, jealousy, unfaithfulness...) through our faith in Christ. That's how/why faith working through love for others is the fulfillment of ALL the law, including circumcision and Sabbath keeping. And that is also how/why the person who keeps the true Sabbath and circumcision, but doesn't keep the literal outward observances, will condemn the person who does keep them literally but who does not love others.

 

[Elijah674]

I suspect, Elijah674, that your struggle with this may be from the fact that you can't help but to think of love for others in human terms....that is mushy feelings. But that is NOT what it means to love others in a practical and meaningful manner. Though it's entirely acceptable that you could love someone according to the practical way the Bible describes and do it with feelings and emotions.

This is how we love others (do them no harm--Romans 13:10 NASB):

"...love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control..." (Galatians 5:22-23 NASB)

It's the hardest thing you'll do as a Christian. That's why these are the mark of the Christian who has the Spirit of God in them to enable them to do these things, not the 'do-good' unbeliever and atheist who doesn't have the Spirit.

When we take a break (a rest) from the hurtful deeds of the flesh (a.k.a our work) we show that we have the transforming power of the Holy Spirit in us through a born-again relationship with God. That's why love is the sign of being in covenant with God, of which literal circumcision and literal Sabbath keeping were only illustrations of.

The 'putting off of the flesh' in literal circumcision and literal Sabbath keeping represent the true circumcision and Sabbath that God commands. The real circumcision and Sabbath rest is the laying aside and putting off of our evil fleshly works (pride, lust, hatred, envy, jealousy, unfaithfulness...) through our faith in Christ. That's how/why faith working through love for others is the fulfillment of ALL the law, including circumcision and Sabbath keeping. And that is also how/why the person who keeps the true Sabbath and circumcision, but doesn't keep the literal outward observances, will condemn the person who does keep them literally but who does not love others.

The Eternal Gospel has always been in place! (The Duty to God part!) But mankind?? Only was it pre/known such as Rom. 4:17 last part of the verse documents.

EDITED

--Elijah

 

[Sinthesis]

Is there any scriptural evidence of God's expectations for us regarding sabbaths prior to Moses' law? I'm just wondering if it is spelled out or if it is all supposition.

 

[Elijah674]

Is there any scriptural evidence of God's expectations for us regarding sabbaths prior to Moses' law? I'm just wondering if it is spelled out or if it is all supposition.

Surely! Even before man was created. Heb. 13:20 we see the Lord giving His Blessings to His work... Gen. 2
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This was even before Adam & Eve sinned.

--Elijah

OH! And that is what Christ called the FIRST GREAT COMMANDMENT! Matt. 22:37

 

[Pizzaguy]

Is there any scriptural evidence of God's expectations for us regarding sabbaths prior to Moses' law? I'm just wondering if it is spelled out or if it is all supposition.

Surely! Even before man was created. Heb. 13:20 we see the Lord giving His Blessings to His work... Gen. 2
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This was even before Adam & Eve sinned.

--Elijah

OH! And that is what Christ called the FIRST GREAT COMMANDMENT! Matt. 22:37

He didn't in Matt 22:37.

Matt 22:37 says: Jesus said unto him, rThou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Did you mean some other verse by mistake?

 

[Elijah674]

Perhaps! See Matt. 22
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

--Elijah

 

[Pizzaguy]

Matt 22:37 says nothing about the sabbath.
It says that the greatest, that is, the first and greatest commandment is to love God.

 

[reba]

Lets just touch on this yet further. The two adult sons of Adam & Eve [were adults]. And until God came to Cain with his message of total REBELLION about to take place, in which He even gave him another chance to repent. And do the correct offering of a Lamb sacrifice! Again Cain was mature. We find in 1 John 5:16-17 & 18 that there is a sin unto death! (and that we are not to pray for it)

How old was Cain, we are not told. But we can see in Gen. 6:3 that it was quite a spell of time that the Holy Spirit 'STROVE' with these pre/flood ones! And surely the builder of the Ark in preaching of his Eternal Gospel that staying outside of the Ark would mean fatal death!

So we find satan with Cain as his full 'FULLTIME' convert. This is how it was stated by God...
Gen.4

[1] And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
[2] And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
[5] But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and [if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.] And [unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.]

Seeing that this is so, surely the devil's first lie has been around since and believed, huh?
[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
[5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
[6] And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

But how many teach that God did indeed lie?

--Elijah

Is this where legalism brings man.... To say God is a liar?

 

[reba]

OPENED

closed for clean up