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A liberal contradiction? If not, please explain.

Dave...

Member
A liberal contradiction? if not, please explain.

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Sexual preference #1

Homosexuality- One who desires to have sex with someone of the same sex.

Liberal diagnosis- Born that way. The person cannot change.

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Sexual preference #2

Pedophilia- One who desires to have sex with children.

Liberal diagnosis- The person can change with therapy. When crimes are committed, should not spend jail time or should receive very little prison time and must always be accompanied with therapy because they can be reformed.

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Why is one sexual preference able to change, while the other is not?
 
Is this really a fair characterization of the oft-demonized "liberal"? I have my doubts.

I think that the following is probably a more fair representation of a view held by many so-called liberals:

Homosexual behviour is not damaging to society. So whether it can or cannot be changed is not an important issue.

Pedophilia is damaging to society. Pedophiles may have experienced trauma in their own childhoods, or they may indeed have been born with a sexual drive towards children. One thing seems pretty clear - there is indeed a powerful drive present in these people. If a crime has been committed, the pedophile should indeed serve time. If there is evidence that therapy works in treating such people, then such therapy should be applied to avoid recurrence of the behaviour.

So the question:
Why is one sexual preference able to change, while the other is not?
is really the wrong question, precisely because there is no need to change homosexual behaviour (since it is not damaging) whereas there is an obvious need to change pedophile behaviour.

I suspect that the "liberal" who thinks there should be no jail time is a mythical beast (or a very uncommon one).
 
I believe that a homosexual can change if he has God's help. If he tries to change on his own, he may fail or he will have no reason to change at all. With God all things are possible.
I have stated that I believe that at least some of them are born with this, but it does not make sodomy a right choice, the Bible is clear in more than one place about that. We all have sinful natures, and we all must learn to control these natures- And we can only do that with God's help.

And yes, it is a contradiction.
 
Yes, Dave....I believe it is a contridiction, but only to those who see both acts as acts of perversion. Which I believe they are.
One is an act that is inflicted upon an innocent victim, and the other is an act that is usually consensual between adults.
Both pervert the matrimonial bonds between a man and woman which God has clearly given us through His word.
 
I think that Drew's point needs to be considered.

Drew wrote:
Homosexual behviour is not damaging to society. So whether it can or cannot be changed is not an important issue.

I do not think this is accurate at all. I will not list the fact that it goes against what God says, and what God has designed for men and women, and for the parenting of children. This the main reason, and it should tell us that we will not even understand all the consequences of this sin. Secondly, I know that other sin, and lusts, produce similar, and other consequences to individuals, and society, as well. I think fornication, and adultery, are two that seem to be more accepted, when they should not be. That being said, let me continue.

1. Homosexuality has split families. Husbands leaving wives for this specific lust, and wives leaving husbands for it, and in some cases adulterous behaviour that has led to bringing aids to a spouse.

2. Parents turning their backs on homosexual children, and leaving them to fend for themselves as runaways, or just simply kicking them out.

3. Children defying their parents, and dishonoring them to pursue this lust, and never once considering that their parents were trying to protect them.

4. The aids epidemic has cost many homosexuals their lives, and caused them to take the lives of others.

5. The lifestyle promotes unprotected sexual situations, which leads to aids, and other stds.

6. Various health conditions arise out of this perversion of intercourse. Rectal cancer, emotional instability, and so on.

7. Homosexuals have a short life expectancy, and have a high rate of things such as depression, eating disorders, drug abuse, and so on.

8. The homosexual agenda is exploiting those caught up with this lust, and encouraging them in a dangerous lifestyle.

9. Other secondary organizations are also exploiting those engaged in this lust.

10. Government Money is spent on medical programs to support those who have contracted aids for whatever reason. A primary, and secondary, effect.

11. Aids, as a secondary effect, has crept into heterosexual life, and into the lives of our children through blood transfusions, pregnancy, needles, open sores, and so on.

12. Homosexuality has torn at the fabric of our nation on certain hot topics such as gay marriage, and has caused much prejudice and hate from both sides of the issue.

13. Now, our schools, and churches, are indoctrinating children, and adults, with acceptance, and normalization, of this lust. Which encourages more people to do it, and fall victim to the effects of it. And, the spiritual consequences result in another deception of satan.

14. Some homosexuals are now "trying" to contract aids to get medical disability, drugs, and free health care...because they are deceived into thinking it is not so bad with all the medicines.

15. Homosexuality is often the result of emotional trauma's, and issues, of an individual who is suffering, and does not need sin as an answer, but healing and compassion.

I do not think that this is all of the effects, and I am sure that not all can even be seen, especially when we speak to children growing up in same sex marriages, and being so indoctrinated with the acceptance...to the point of their own involvement...with a lust of the flesh that is outside of God's plan of marriage, and family.

The Lord bless you.
 
lovely said:
I think that Drew's point needs to be considered.

Drew wrote:
Homosexual behviour is not damaging to society. So whether it can or cannot be changed is not an important issue.
Just so that we're all clear. I never claimed that I believed the assertion that homosexual behaviour is not damaging to society. I speculated that this is what some "liberals" believe.
 
For the record, homosexuality is damaging to the very fabric of our society. It damages family structures and values and when values fall, a nations falls with them.

Sexual preference #2

Pedophilia- One who desires to have sex with children.

Liberal diagnosis- The person can change with therapy. When crimes are committed, should not spend jail time or should receive very little prison time and must always be accompanied with therapy because they can be reformed.
From all the research I've done and the statistics I've seen, this is not true. In many cases, they wind up behind bars again. This is why we have Megan's Law in the USA.

http://www.megans-law.net/

One of the best things Mr. Partyboy Bill did while in office... go figure! 8-)
 
For the record, homosexuality is damaging to the very fabric of our society. It damages family structures and values and when values fall, a nations falls with them.
Thats so true vic. This proverb comes to mind...

When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn. Proverbs 29:2
 
Well...

Here is the problem.

You are all only accoutnign for Christian families. It is also wrong, in a Christian world, to be a familly with atheists, hindu's, or muslims as parents, because they are leading you away from God (or the true God).

right?

I can agre with several of the points you made Lovely, However, I must discredit some, or atleast, alter a few.

1. Homosexuality has split families. Husbands leaving wives for this specific lust, and wives leaving husbands for it, and in some cases adulterous behaviour that has led to bringing aids to a spouse.

Yes, but so has alchol abuse, drug abuse, neglect, pedophilia, Monetary issues, and even change in religous preference. It sort of makes it a moot (mute?) point.

2. Parents turning their backs on homosexual children, and leaving them to fend for themselves as runaways, or just simply kicking them out.

THis is mainly a homophobia issue, and should not be the fault of the homosexual, but of the parent.
3. Children defying their parents, and dishonoring them to pursue this lust, and never once considering that their parents were trying to protect them.

Would it be wrong for a muslim child to defy his parents and convert to christianity? An athiest child? They are defying and dishonoring them. right?


5. The lifestyle promotes unprotected sexual situations, which leads to aids, and other stds.
I agree 100%, and that is exactly why we need education. People think condoms are merely to stop babies, and that just isn't the case. and sadly, it tends to affect the poor and minority groups the most.

7. Homosexuals have a short life expectancy, and have a high rate of things such as depression, eating disorders, drug abuse, and so on.
A majority of this is due to the neglect by parents, familly, friends and society, and the horrible way it makes people feel. Thats why mamny overweight, or disabled people also fall into these things, because society mocks them.
12. Homosexuality has torn at the fabric of our nation on certain hot topics such as gay marriage, and has caused much prejudice and hate from both sides of the issue.

It definately has. Gay rights activists and Fundamentalists seem to have these ongoing battles, and it just makes it worse. People want privacy, and equality, and freedom, But No one in America wants to give up some of their cake, EVEN if they arent going to eat it.
13. Now, our schools, and churches, are indoctrinating children, and adults, with acceptance, and normalization, of this lust. Which encourages more people to do it, and fall victim to the effects of it. And, the spiritual consequences result in another deception of satan.
Acceptance and normalization should be allowed. Accepting a muslim or an atheist should be taught yes? Although it is a sin, and a "deception of satan" yet, if schools didn't teach acceptance and tollerance, where would we be today?

14. Some homosexuals are now "trying" to contract aids to get medical disability, drugs, and free health care...because they are deceived into thinking it is not so bad with all the medicines.
If anyone, ANYONE falls victim to this, then they obviously are well, not very bright. It really shows how well our education is showing us that aids is dangerous. How can you expect someoen to protect themselves, if someone else is going to lie to them about it?
Im srry, but i just can't see anyone really believing that AIDS isn't a bad thing.

I do agree that there are health risks, and dangers involved, of course there are. However, some of the reasons here, aren't really good at all.
 
Dave
Great topic.
I see you have already touched some liberals. :wink:
I will follow this thread and throw in my two cents worth.

First the homosexual. Lets look at:
Gen 18:16–33 After the Lord revealed to Abraham that He was going to destroy Sodom, and while the two angels were walking toward that city, Abraham’s great intercessory countdown beganâ€â€fifty ... forty-five ... forty ... thirty ... twenty ... ten. Even for ten righteous people the Lord would not destroy Sodom! Abraham’s prayer is a wonderful example of effectual intercession. It was based on the righteous character of the Judge of all the earth (v. 25) and evidenced that boldness, yet deep humility which only an intimate knowledge of God can give. Only when Abraham stopped pleading did the Lord close the matter and depart (v. 33). There are many mysteries in life for which the truth of verse 25 is the only satisfying answer.
Don’t miss the tribute God paid to Abraham as an outstanding family man (v. 19). Something worth coveting! Anyway lets continue.
19:1–11 The name of Sodom has become synonymous with the sin of homosexuality or sodomy. But sexual perversion was not the only cause of the city’s fall. In Ezekiel 16:49,50, the Lord describes the sin of Sodom as “pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness.â€Â
Lot received the two angels and insisted that they spend the night in his home, knowing all too well the danger that would face them otherwise. Even then the men of Sodom sought to commit homosexual rape against these heavenly visitors. In a desperate effort to save his guests, Lot shamelessly offered his two daughters. Only a miracle saved the day; the angels struck the Sodomites with a temporary, confusing blindness.

Both in the OT (Gen. 19:1–26; Lev. 18:22; 20:13) and in the NT (Rom. 1:18–32; 1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Tim. 1:10), God condemns the sin of homosexuality. He showed His wrath against it by destroying the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. Under the law of Moses, sodomy was punishable by death. No practicing homosexual will inherit the kingdom of God.
So-called “gays†pay a high price for their immoral lifestyle. Paul says that they receive in themselves “the penalty of their error which was due†(Rom. 1:27b). This includes venereal diseases, pneumocystis, Kaposi’s sarcoma (a form of cancer) and AIDS. It also includes haunting guilt, mental and emotional disturbances, and abnormal personality changes.
Like all other sinners, a homosexual or lesbian can be saved if he or she repents of sin and receives the Lord Jesus Christ as personal Savior. God loves the gay person and the lesbian even if He hates their sin.
There is a difference between being a practicing homosexual and having a homosexual tendency. It is the practice that the Bible condemns, not the orientation. There are many who have an attraction to their own sex but refuse to give in to it. By the power of the Spirit, they have disciplined themselves to resist the temptation and to live in purity. Many Christian persons of homosexual orientation... have regarded their condition with sorrow and contrition, but, unable to change, have drawn on the Spirit for the power of forbearance and chastity, which is sanctification indeed ... . In commitment to Christ, [they] have offered an enduring inner blemish for God’s use that divine power may be perfected in human weakness.

Some blame God that they were born with this tendency, but the fault does not lie with God but with human sinfulness. Every fallen child of Adam has evil tendencies. Some have a weakness in one area, some in another. The sin is not in being tempted, but in yielding to the temptation.
There is deliverance from homosexuality or lesbianism, as there is from any form of lust. However, ongoing godly counseling assistance is very important in nearly every case.
Christians should accept gays and lesbians as persons without approving their lifestyle. Because they are people for whom Christ died, believers should seek in every possible way to win them to a life of “holiness, without which no one will see the Lord†(Heb. 12:14).




Ok now the pedofile
This would be very difficult for me to comment on. I personally believe that all pedofiles should be casteraded. I mean there is no excuse for this maddness that is totally demonic. The bible says to tie a mill stone around their neck and toss them in the ocean.

When my daughter was 15 years old she just escaped the clutches of a pedofile. When this guy was caught they let him out in 6 months and he did it again to another young girl. She was not lucky and she was 11 years old. Turns out he had a history of doing this ( nine other kids) and that the DA said at most this guy would get is three years !!
I live in a well to do area with a great pd and it shows me that this could happen anyplace, antime. The devil never sleeps and never rest.

Look at what Michael Jackson got away with..
:evil: Still no jail time. If he had no testicales then he would be ok. WELL maybe not. He needs Jesus.

Well, I said enough.
Jg
 
Hi peace,

I agree that there are many factors involved when we discuss the consequences of homosexuality. Did you see this part of my post?

lovely wrote:
Secondly, I know that other sin, and lusts, produce similar, and other consequences to individuals, and society, as well. I think fornication, and adultery, are two that seem to be more accepted, when they should not be. That being said, let me continue.

I was making the point that a life that is caught up in homosexuality is unhealthy, and is not without consequences...like the other things that are sinful, and against the natural.

The Lord bless you, peace.
 
In 2004, Bush and the Republican Party made their opposition to gay marriage the centerpiece of their campaign. They put anti-gay marriage amendments on state ballots to turn out homophobic voters. They furiously attacked John Kerry for pointing out (in a supportive way) that Dick Cheney's own daughter is openly gay.

Now we know Bush's White House waved a gay male prostitute - Jim Guckert - into White House press conferences nearly every day for two years. Guckert, like many closeted gay Republicans, engaged in vicious gay-bashing himself: during the 2004 campaign, he wrote articles accusing John Kerry of running to be the "first gay president."

Should we expose every Republican gay-basher who is gay. Dave why do you keep bringing up the subject. You seem facinated with it.
 
Yep lovely. I thought that was one of the good points of your article. I just didn't mention it in my reply. Not every christian is homophobic, some are just, against all sins :-P
 
Several posts use the vague term, 'society'

It tends to mask the risk of deadly STI dideases, broken hearts, etc: did anyone see the news, just in the past 1/2 days, that an amazingly high % of people have had condoms slip & snap

Even if they don't, the rectum is an exit for toxic waste, whose germs & bacteria can cross the outside of the condom & spread deadly disease anyway


Just time to say that the origin of paedophilia is the forbidden occult pagan cults of mother & child - Isis/Osiris, etc - paganism is satanic, designed to destroy folk, not to help or empower them

See 1 Timothy 4:1 etc

Must go!

Ian
 
definately did aqgoogle news search for condoms, and well, found pretty much nothing (cept an article abotu a man with a phobia of them)

when you say "cross the outside of a condom" do you mean they actually can permeate the condom?
 
peace4all said:
definately did aqgoogle news search for condoms, and well, found pretty much nothing (cept an article abotu a man with a phobia of them)

when you say "cross the outside of a condom" do you mean they actually can permeate the condom?
That's what he is saying, though it is much less a problem with latex than it is with a natural material like lambskin.
 
I think the fact that some think that one is acceptable behavior and the other is not, is actually irrelevant.

Both are sexual preferences. Why is on sexual preference born that way, in other words, not able to change, yet the other sexual preference is able to change? Why aren't pedephiles born that way also?

Another question...Why hasn't evolution removed homosexuality from the face of the earth. Clearly, heterosexuality is superior in creating more people, according to evolutionists, this mutation that makes homosexuals different should eliminate them. Why hasn't it happened?
 
Dave... said:
Both are sexual preferences. Why is on sexual preference born that way, in other words, not able to change, yet the other sexual preference is able to change? Why aren't pedephiles born that way also?
Who knows. But it certainly could be the case that homosexuals are born as such and pedophiles are not. We cannot tell nature how it is to behave - we have to let it tell us what is actually the case.

[quote="Dave...]Another question...Why hasn't evolution removed homosexuality from the face of the earth. Clearly, heterosexuality is superior in creating more people, according to evolutionists, this mutation that makes homosexuals different should eliminate them. Why hasn't it happened?[/quote]
From "Talk Origins" (I do not vouch for this site - the following is simply one response to your question):

Possible explanations as to why evolution has not eliminated homosexuality:

1. Although homosexuality probably has a genetic component, much of its cause, perhaps most of it, appears to be nongenetic (Haynes 1995; Kendler et al. 2000; Kirk et al. 2000). To the extent it is not genetic, selection would not affect it.

2. Homosexuals still have children. Sexual orientation is not an either-or trait but exists as a continuum (Haynes 1995). Those with some heterosexual orientation can still contribute homosexual genes (to the extent it is genetic; see above). And even the most extreme homosexuals sometimes have children.

The most manifest heterosexuals may have homosexual tendencies, too. Homophobic male heterosexuals showed more arousal to homosexual images than did nonhomophobic heterosexuals (Adams et al. 1996). Societal condemnation of homosexuality may contribute to its genes being propagated by causing latent homosexuals to behave heterosexually.

3. Genes for homosexuality could be beneficial on the whole. In bonobo chimpanzees, homosexual interactions are a form of social cement. It is possible that homosexuality evolved to serve social functions in humans, too (Kirkpatrick 2000). After all, social cohesion is still a main function of sex in humans.

The genetic etiology of homosexuality may come from a collection of traits that, when expressed strongly and in concert, result in homosexuality; expressed less strongly or without supporting traits, these traits contribute to the robust nature of our species. The genes for these traits persist because they usually combine to make us better at survival and reproduction.

Genetic factors linked to homosexuality in men apparently boost fertility in women. Female relatives of gay men, on their mother's side of the family, had more children than female relatives of heterosexual men. (Corna et al. 2004)

It should be noted that the question of explaining homosexuality is not limited to humans. Homosexuality exists in hundreds of animal species (Bagemihl 1998).
 
Dave... said:
I think the fact that some think that one is acceptable behavior and the other is not, is actually irrelevant.

Both are sexual preferences. Why is on sexual preference born that way, in other words, not able to change, yet the other sexual preference is able to change? Why aren't pedephiles born that way also?

Another question...Why hasn't evolution removed homosexuality from the face of the earth. Clearly, heterosexuality is superior in creating more people, according to evolutionists, this mutation that makes homosexuals different should eliminate them. Why hasn't it happened?

Dave, same thign occurs from teh use of vaccines. When christians/catholics refuse vaccines, and then are mroe prone to disease, they too should die out faster than those who are vaccinated (although i doubt there has been a study on this, it is probably happening slowly)

Humans live in such an enviroment now,that ourselves evolving does very little. 500 years ago, if you got your foot cut off, you would probably die. Now, you will mos tlikely live, and walk, and run and drive a car, and possibly even become a soccer star. Evolution gets lost due to our technilogical advances.
 
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