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a little story

R

reznwerks

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"I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' 'No,' said the priest, 'not if you did not know.' 'Then why,' asked the Eskimo earnestly, 'did you tell me?' "Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, 1974
 
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:18-20
 
I have had this same converstion before, here in Philly. Lets say that a kid grows up, not ever being taught about God. But he looks around and sees the world and the trees the birds and so forth. He wonders what made them, but was never taught abot God, He lives in the Amazon, and has never heard about Jesus Christ. Will he go to heaven when he dies ? I mean this kid knows that something greater than him, has made this world. But will he go to heaven at death ? I am very well aware of that Scripture that Solo posted. I know God does take babies to heaven when they go. But what about the age of accountability ? I asked a pastor about this a long time ago. And he said that he would think that God would take them to heaven under the circumstances that were out of that persons control, of never hearing the Gospel. So what say ye ?
 
reznwerks said:
"I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' 'No,' said the priest, 'not if you did not know.' 'Then why,' asked the Eskimo earnestly, 'did you tell me?' "Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, 1974

the priest, 'if you are fated to know it, better through my mouth. OR do you prefer that when you are 78 yrs old and someone tells you that right before your last breath?'. 'consider that you'll go directly to.....under that situation.'

'on the other hand, if you are not fated to know it, you wont even have a chance to meet me here, think about it.'
 
Amazing timing: :o

I've prayed several times @ starting such a thread... 8-)

I'd done a search @ short stories...

& was stunned how few results... :roll:

& little activity.. :oops:

for a postmodern age that loves the power of a good story! :roll:

So..

here's mine...

From a TOG to a Geek in less than a week???? :-D

Dear Diary...

For non-Terry Wogan fans, a TOG is a Terry's Old Geezer: ..

someone...

er......'

of a certain age...

Will my missing keen cadet daughter ever believe i?t

Laura Dawn - named to sound like Lorna Doone...

she of the wiry frame, unusual golden sandy short hair & dtriking big blue eyes, with the attractive turn in 1 of them???

She who needs only be asked by the unsure, 'Laura? Don't you come from Prestatyn/Rhyl area?'

She may well be backpacking anywhere in the world..

Missing Persons Agencies are at a loss - I haven' seen her for over 2 years, & no-one who I subtly asked in her 4 favourite N Wales towns had either..

But..

Believe what exactly? :o

that her daft old doddery dad just managed to learn how to close a browser & ome back o fix the missing letters just now..

But more than that...

Would you believe that a man who moves into sheltered housing got his 1st bargain camera phone today...

gets BT Broadband put in on Fri..

& a full http://www.sky.com system on Sat?

& would YOU believe that none of the 6/7 young folk I asked in town just now know if either BT or Sky can connect my tiny PC to my TV so that I'll have twice the size of screen to work on? :roll:

Would you also believe that I've managed to lose both my distance glasses & my eaders, & am having to rock back & forth & squint in this crowded library to try & read what I'm typing now? :oops:

Funny old life, eh, Tel?


While I do a search @ techno advice, will someone beat me to posting answers to this techno connect question?


Autologout soon, so here's maybe best link??

https://czone.sky.com/customerzone/arti ... 40,00.html

Must go!

Do post YOUR short stories

& see poems @ http://www.christianforums.net/viewforum.php?f=29

My 10 were posted in Nov & only @ 12 on since - just 1 in Jan, when I checked on Wed

Let's see that New Year Resolution to get mre creative for our abundantly creative Creator, yes?

God bless!

Ian

Ian
 
Solo said:
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:18-20

A man, born and raised in a remote tribe in some far off place who has never ever seen anything of civilization or anything or person beyond his tribe; looks up at the heavens and beleives there must be a God.

Now .... how does he learn from *that* about Jesus Christ?
 
reznwerks said:
"I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' 'No,' said the priest, 'not if you did not know.' 'Then why,' asked the Eskimo earnestly, 'did you tell me?' "Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, 1974


That is pretty funny.
 
ÃÂoppleganger said:
Psalm 19:1-6 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.

Again, I ask, how does someone come to know JESUS this way?
 
blueberry pie said:
Solo said:
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:18-20

A man, born and raised in a remote tribe in some far off place who has never ever seen anything of civilization or anything or person beyond his tribe; looks up at the heavens and beleives there must be a God.

Now .... how does he learn from *that* about Jesus Christ?
Jesus is God. Notice in the verse of scripture that the invisable things of the creation of the world can be clearly and understood by the things that are made; the invisable things being God's eternal power and the Godhead.
 
Solo said:
Jesus is God. Notice in the verse of scripture that the invisable things of the creation of the world can be clearly and understood by the things that are made; the invisable things being God's eternal power and the Godhead.

But what exactly do you mean by that? That if he believes in God without knowing the name of Jesus, he is still believing in Jesus because Jesus is God?

The Scriptures say that one must confess the name of the Lord. How can this tribal man confess the name of Jesus and believe that God raised him from the dead, if he's never seen or read the Bible or heard the Gospel (no missionaries have reached them)?
 
blueberry pie said:
Solo said:
Jesus is God. Notice in the verse of scripture that the invisable things of the creation of the world can be clearly and understood by the things that are made; the invisable things being God's eternal power and the Godhead.

But what exactly do you mean by that? That if he believes in God without knowing the name of Jesus, he is still believing in Jesus because Jesus is God?

The Scriptures say that one must confess the name of the Lord. How can this tribal man confess the name of Jesus and believe that God raised him from the dead, if he's never seen or read the Bible or heard the Gospel (no missionaries have reached them)?
You will have to ask God and read his Word for His answer to your question, but my understanding is the following:

Faith in God is what saves anyone. Abraham had faith and is saved and Jesus was before Abraham even though Mary hadn't given birth to Jesus yet.

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58

Hebrews 11 tells us much about faith.

Now, if I may ask you a question. What did Paul mean in Romans 1:18-19?
 
Solo said:
Faith in God is what saves anyone. Abraham had faith and is saved and Jesus was before Abraham even though Mary hadn't given birth to Jesus yet.

I happen to agree. I know many would say though, that one cannot be saved without knowing Jesus Christ.

Solo said:
Now, if I may ask you a question. What did Paul mean in Romans 1:18-19?

Too be honest, I'm inclined to believe that Paul is referring to those who have heard the Gospel. The average person (at least, that I have met), has heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ at one point or another, and they do not believe.
 
Solo said:
Faith in God is what saves anyone. Abraham had faith and is saved and Jesus was before Abraham even though Mary hadn't given birth to Jesus yet.
No, grace saves. We access grace through faith which is manifest in our actions. Faith saves nobody. It is only the grace of God that does that.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10
 
Solo said:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10
Your point?
 
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. 21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones. 23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. 24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. 28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. 29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: 33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Hebrews 11:1-40
 
Lyric's Dad said:
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

And what is your position on Romans chapter one - can a tribal man be "without excuse" from looking at the heavens? How can he know Jesus without ever hearing of Him?
 
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