A Problem with Pride

[elijah23]

Jesus said pride is a sin (Mark 7:20-23). I suspect some people see nothing wrong with pride and commit prideful acts anyway.

A problem with pride, I think, is that it makes people say and do mean things to other people. It is always good to obey Jesus, even if we don’t understand the reasons why.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

Jesus said pride is a sin (Mark 7:20-23). I suspect some people see nothing wrong with pride and commit prideful acts anyway.

A problem with pride, I think, is that it makes people say and do mean things to other people. It is always good to obey Jesus, even if we don’t understand the reasons why.

First we have to define "pride." It is healthy to take pride in your accomplishments, but pride becomes a sickness when it is divorced from reality.

 

[ivdavid]

First we have to define "pride."

From Oxford,
Pride is a feeling of pleasure or satisfaction that you get when you or people who are connected with you have done something well or own something that other people admire

I guess you referred to the above "doing something well" as one's 'accomplishments' that one is entitled to be proud about. If not, correct me.

I have no problem with this definition. I don't even have a problem with one being proud of one's "doing something well" given that one does indeed do something well. The truth is, we don't do anything good/well before God and hence there is nothing to be proud of.

..pride becomes a sickness when it is divorced from reality.

Absolutely True. But now we'll have to define what "reality" is.

If you believe the non-Christian worldview to be reality, then you'll also believe that you are accomplishing many good things by yourself and hence you'd entitle yourself to be proud over what you've done.

If you believe the Christian worldview to be reality, then you'll believe that there is nothing good in you[your flesh] and hence you'll rest completely on Christ for your justification. Where then is room for pride? Let no flesh be proud before God, and if one can ever be proud, let him be proud only of what God has done and is doing.

Of course, this deprives man of any self-worth in and of himself - and this is despairing to the natural man. But truth is not dependent on how man feels about it - truth is independent of opinion. What seems like foolishness to the natural man is the power and wisdom of God.

The truth is that we have a 'sickness' of self-pride and rebellion in us - and the good news is that whosoever believes in the sufficiency of Christ's work on the cross for their justification and not in any of their own works, they shall be set free from the guilt and power of sin in their flesh - to have life unto God in spirit and in truth.

A problem with pride, I think, is that it makes people say and do mean things to other people.

One of the effects of pride may be this, yes. But basically, self-pride is evil because it encourages self-dependency instead of relying on God completely. It encourages faith in one's own wisdom/ability rather than complete faith in God's wisdom and ability. This leads one to depart from the will of God and hence walk in the ways of evil. Think about it, the devil became the devil because of self-pride.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

From Oxford,
Pride is a feeling of pleasure or satisfaction that you get when you or people who are connected with you have done something well or own something that other people admire

I guess you referred to the above "doing something well" as one's 'accomplishments' that one is entitled to be proud about. If not, correct me.

I have no problem with this definition. I don't even have a problem with one being proud of one's "doing something well" given that one does indeed do something well. The truth is, we don't do anything good/well before God and hence there is nothing to be proud of.


Absolutely True. But now we'll have to define what "reality" is.

If you believe the non-Christian worldview to be reality, then you'll also believe that you are accomplishing many good things by yourself and hence you'd entitle yourself to be proud over what you've done.

If you believe the Christian worldview to be reality, then you'll believe that there is nothing good in you[your flesh] and hence you'll rest completely on Christ for your justification. Where then is room for pride? Let no flesh be proud before God, and if one can ever be proud, let him be proud only of what God has done and is doing.

Of course, this deprives man of any self-worth in and of himself - and this is despairing to the natural man. But truth is not dependent on how man feels about it - truth is independent of opinion. What seems like foolishness to the natural man is the power and wisdom of God.

The truth is that we have a 'sickness' of self-pride and rebellion in us - and the good news is that whosoever believes in the sufficiency of Christ's work on the cross for their justification and not in any of their own works, they shall be set free from the guilt and power of sin in their flesh - to have life unto God in spirit and in truth.


One of the effects of pride may be this, yes. But basically, self-pride is evil because it encourages self-dependency instead of relying on God completely. It encourages faith in one's own wisdom/ability rather than complete faith in God's wisdom and ability. This leads one to depart from the will of God and hence walk in the ways of evil. Think about it, the devil became the devil because of self-pride.

I suppose I see this world-view as a bit of a double-standard. If we praise God for all the good things we do or that happen to us, does it not logically follow that we should curse God for all the bad things we do or that happen to us?

 

[ivdavid]

If we praise God for all the good things we do or that happen to us, does it not logically follow that we should curse God for all the bad things we do or that happen to us?

Let's isolate the different causes according to the Christian worldview for each of the events you've mentioned -
(i) Event: good thing we do - Cause: God working in us by His grace
(ii) Event: good thing that happens to us - Cause: God's grace
(iii) Event: bad thing we do - Cause: our own rebellion
(iv) Event: 'bad' thing that happens to us - Cause: God's wrath in righteous judgment OR God's grace in teaching us

I am unable to see any double standard here - Everything good is of God while all sin is by me. Accordingly, I am the one redeemed from under the curse during justification while all praise, glory is given to God.

So,
God's grace being the cause of man's good works
does not Logically imply that,
God's lack of grace is the cause of man's bad works

In other words,
the king's mercy being the cause of the condemned man's freedom
does not logically imply that,
the king's lack of mercy is the cause of the condemned man's death - the cause was his own crime for which he was condemned in the first place.

I hope I've explained adequately...

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

God's Direct Involvement

Doesn't the sun shine on the good and the bad? Are not time and chance factors that influence eah of our lives? With these truths of the Bible in mind, does it make sense to fault or credit God for everything that happens as if he is the direct cause?

Folks we need to come to a proper understanding of the contexts of passages like the one that tells us every good and perect gift comes from the Father of lights and not through opinions out there as if they were fact.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

Let's isolate the different causes according to the Christian worldview for each of the events you've mentioned -
(i) Event: good thing we do - Cause: God working in us by His grace
(ii) Event: good thing that happens to us - Cause: God's grace
(iii) Event: bad thing we do - Cause: our own rebellion
(iv) Event: 'bad' thing that happens to us - Cause: God's wrath in righteous judgment OR God's grace in teaching us

I am unable to see any double standard here - Everything good is of God while all sin is by me. Accordingly, I am the one redeemed from under the curse during justification while all praise, glory is given to God.

So,
God's grace being the cause of man's good works
does not Logically imply that,
God's lack of grace is the cause of man's bad works

In other words,
the king's mercy being the cause of the condemned man's freedom
does not logically imply that,
the king's lack of mercy is the cause of the condemned man's death - the cause was his own crime for which he was condemned in the first place.

I hope I've explained adequately...

So, God's grace is within me? A secular humanist?

 

[ivdavid]

So, God's grace is within me? A secular humanist?

Let's use a working definition of "grace" as - any unmerited and undeserving act of God towards us.

Now, God is just and right to condemn any rebel against Him - because He is good and anyone against that is necessarily evil.
So, all of the following are indeed by God's grace - which He's not obligated to do at all, at any given time - and which He yet does according to His will, to show forth His grace, mercy, love, righteousness and wrath.

The fact that God permits such rebels to live for a time is in itself by His grace.

The fact that God has given them a conscience which upholds a law unto each one - pointing him/her in the way of right and not wrong is a further act of grace.

His grace is seen continuously in His constant exhortation/chastisement of us to do what's good so we may have life.

We still choose to reject His grace in the law because we embrace the evil in and around us. And still, He sends His own begotten Son to die on the cross, by His grace alone. This is to work out forgiveness and salvation, that whosoever believes in the sufficiency of Christ for life, receives the promises of God.

This is a free offer to stop our striving in our works and to depend entirely on Christ's work on the cross for our justification into eternal life. And this too we reject because we want to hold on to our evil deeds and not be freed from them. We never have had a heart to love God.

These are multiple acts of His grace in that He constantly makes known the Gospel of Christ to us, so we may believe in Him and have life and freedom. While we ignore, He reminds. While we scoff, He is patient. While we taunt, He endures. While we revel in our own foolishness, He holds forth His wisdom. Why all this if not by grace - and yet we cling on to our lusts of the eye, lusts of the flesh and pride of life instead of Jesus in whom is life.

Observing a Christian, we find that God further, by His grace, removes this stubborn heart of stone in him/her and regenerates him/her with a heart of flesh that can love good and renews his/her understanding in the inner man to be able to discern truth and walk in the ways of God. By His grace, the promise of blessing is fulfilled in all who believe in Him. Here begins the Christian walk, where all good things are worked in him by God's grace alone, through faith alone, unto God's glory alone.

In all the above, God's grace is not an obligatory work and yet our rejection of it shows all the more clearly our desire to remain in rebellion and evil - we are left without excuse.

I have presented truth as seen in God's Word here - you can now answer your question by yourself.

 

[dobro]

Hi Gendou God must be doing a work on you over a 1000 posts in a christian forum praise the lord. Why dont you accept the grace of God what have you got to lose if you dont like it dont continue with it but I think you will be surprised.

 

[Eventide]

I can recall a brother once telling me that RELIGIOUS pride is one of the most stubborn types of pride.. and that was a long time ago.. and it seems to be very true in many cases..

Even though the Christian life is supposed to be a continuous life of correction.. it's not often that you can see a Christian get corrected.. because everyone seems to think that their take on the matter is the 'correct one'.. and correction is difficult for many people.. it's not something that we enjoy.. ie, being corrected..

John Madden once said this.. "A Good COACH is a person who can correct you WITHOUT the feeling of resentment."

But not many people like to be corrected when it comes to the bible.. strange, isn't it ?