A STUDY OF HELL

[carey]

A STUDY OF HELL

This study of hell will be, in one sense, very difficult, and in another sense, very easy. Difficult, because most Christians have a concept of hell which, in many cases, comes from what was taught them in early childhood. Concepts formed in early childhood are often very difficult to let go of. On the other hand, this study is easy, because to understand hell is simply a matter of understanding how the Bible uses certain words. These words are the Hebrew and Greek words translated "hell" and the Hebrew and Greek words translated "soul".

This study will consist of eight parts.

I. A study of the meaning of the Hebrew word translated "hell".
II. A list of every occurrence of the Hebrew word translated "hell".
III. A study of the meaning of the Greek words translated "hell".
IV. A list of every occurrence of the Greek words translated "hell
V. A study of the scriptural description of death.
VI. A study of "soul".
VII. A list of passages that seem to prove the traditional view.
VIII. Conclusion

PART I

A STUDY OF THE HEBREW WORD TRANSLATED "HELL"

The Hebrew word translated "hell" is "sheol". It is translated "hell", "grave" and "pit". Obviously, the word "hell" has a much different connotation then does the word "grave". How are we to determine what the scriptural definition of "sheol" is?

We determine the meaning of a Hebrew word in the same way we determine the meaning of any word with which we are not familiar. Since we do not have a God-breathed dictionary, we must study each occurrence of the word and, most importantly, discover its meaning by how it used. We can not give the same word a totally different meaning in different contexts and hope to come to knowledge of the truth. That is to say, the same word can not mean "grave", with the connotations we ascribe to it, in one verse, and "hell" with the connotations we ascribe to it, in another verse. We must find a word that fits all verses.

The first occurrence of "sheol" is found in Gen. 37:35, "And all his (Jacob’s) sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave (sheol) unto my son, mourning…". Jacob will be resurrected (Matt. 8:11) which means that he was saved unto eternal life. Therefore, it is obvious that Jacob did not think that he would go down to a place of suffering and torment. In this verse we must interpret "sheol" as "grave".

Gen. 42:38, "…if mischief befalls him (Benjamin) by the way in the which ye go, then shall ye bring down my (Jacob’s) gray hairs with sorrow to the grave". Here again, we must interpret "sheol" as grave.

Job 14:13, "O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave that thou wouldest keep me secret until thy wrath past…". Job was not asking God to hide him in a place of horror and torture, this passage also must refer to the grave.

Job 17:16, "They (destruction and hope) shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together is in the dust". There are several things in this verse which compel the reader to interpret the word "sheol" (translated here "pit") as applying to the grave. 1) "hope" would not be in hell. 2) there is certainly no "rest" in the traditional concept of hell. 3) the grave is of dust, we will see several passages in this study that show us that, upon death, even the saved man returns to the dust from whence he came.

Ps. 9:17, "The wicked return to the grave, all the nations that forgot God". Note the word "return". This suggests the grave, not hell, as we are reminded that "from dust thou art and unto dust thou shall return" (Gen. 3:19).

Ps. 16:9-10, "Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope, Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell….". We know that David will not suffer the torments of what is the traditional view of hell. Also, David would not have been rejoicing if he had thought that he would have had to spend one moment in tradition’s hell. It is clear that a better translation of "sheol" in this verse would have been "grave".

II Sam. 22:6, "The sorrows of hell compassed me (David) about; the snares of death prevented me". Here too, "hell" must refer to the grave, David was a man "after God’s own heart", he was not afraid of being compassed about by eternal torture.

Deut. 32:22, "For a fire is kindled in my anger and shall burn unto the lowest hell." This verse seems to suggest the traditional view of hell but only when taken out of context. Verses 21b-22 reads, "I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation, for a fire is kindled in my anger and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains". This passage is about God’s anger with Israel and speaks of that anger in terms of being poured out on the earth, not somewhere under the earth.

PART II

A LIST OF ALL THE OCCURRENCES OF THE HEBREW WORD TRANSLATED ‘HELL’

I believe that there is sufficient reason to believe that the Hebrew word "sheol" means "grave" and should be translated that way in each occurrence. I have listed below all the verses in the Old Testament in which the word "sheol" appears. I list these verses without comment so that the reader may come to his or her own conclusions. (These verses are quoted from the NIV, which in some cases translates "sheol" as "grave ", where the King James translates it "hell")

Gen. 37:35, "….In mourning will I (Jacob) go down to the grave to my son, …"
Gen. 42:38, "….then you will bring down my (Jacob) gray head, with sorrow, to the
grave".
Gen. 44:29, "…you will bring down my gray head with sorrow to the grave".
Gen. 44:31, "….and your servants will bring the gray head of our father
down to the grave in sorrow".
Numbers 16:28-30, "And Moses said, This is how you will know that the Lord has sent
me to do all these things…. If these men die a natural death,
then the Lord has not sent me. But if the Lord brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, …and they go down alive into the grave, then you will know
that these men have treated the Lord with contempt."

Numbers 16:33, "They ….went down alive into the grave and the earth closed upon over them".

Deut. 32:22, "For a fire is kindled in my anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell,

I Sam. 2:6, "The Lord brings death and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and
raises up".

II Sam. 22:6, "The cords of death coiled around me (David), the snares of death
confronted me".

I Kings 2:6, "Deal with him according to your wisdom, but do not let his gray
head go down to the grave in peace".

I Kings 2:9, "…..Bring his gray head down to the grave in blood".

Job 7:9, "As a cloud vanishes and is gone, so is he who goes down to the grave and
does not return".

Job 11:8, "They (the mysteries of God) are higher than the heavens-what can you do?
they are deeper than the depths of the grave-what can you know?"

Job 14:13, "If only you would hide me in the grave and hide me till your anger has
passed".

Job 17:13, "If the only home I (Job) hope for is the grave,…"

Job 17:16, "Will it (hope) go down to the gates of death? Will we descend together
into the dust?"

Job 21:13, "They (the wicked, see verse 7) spend their years in prosperity and go down
to the grave in peace".

Job 24, 19, "As heat and drought snatch away the melted snow, so the grave snatches
away those who have sinned".

Job 26:6, "Death is naked before God, sheol lies uncovered".

Ps. 6:5, "No one remembers you when he is dead, who praises you from the grave"?

Ps. 9:17, "The wicked return to the grave, all the nations that forgot God".

Ps. 16:10, "You will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see
decay".

Ps. 18:5, "The cords of the grave coiled around me, the snares of death confronted me".

Ps. 30:3, "O Lord, you brought me up from the grave, you spared me from going down
into the pit".

Ps. 31:17, "….let the wicked be put to death and lie silent in the grave".

Ps. 49:14 "Like sheep they are destined for the grave and death will feed on them. ….
their forms will decay in the grave"

Ps. 49:15, "But God will redeem my soul from the grave; He will surely take me to
Himself".

Ps. 55:15, "Let death take my enemies by surprise; let them go down alive to the grave".

Ps. 86:13, "For great is your love towards me, you have delivered my soul from the
depths of the grave".
Ps. 88:3, "For my soul is full of trouble, and my life draws near the grave".

Ps. 89:48, "What man can live and not see death, or save himself from the power of
the grave".

Ps. 116:3, "The cords of death came upon me, the anguish of the grave came upon me".

Ps. 139:8, "If I go up to heaven you are there, if I make my bed in the depths, you are
there…".

Ps. 141:7, "As one plows and breaks up the earth, so our bones have been scattered at
the mouth of the grave".

Prov. 1:12, "lets swallow them alive like the grave, and whole, like those who go down to the pit".


Prov. 5:5, "Her feet go down to the depth, her steps lead straight to the grave".

Prov. 7:27, "Her house is a highway to the grave, leading down to the chambers of
death".

Pro. 9:18, "But little do they know that the dead are there, that her guests are in the
depths of the grave".

Prov. 15:11, "Death and destruction lie open before the Lord, how much more the
hearts of men".

Prov. 15:24, "The path of life leads upward for the wise to keep him from going down
to the grave".

Prov. 23:14, "Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death".

Prov. 27:20, "Death and destruction are never satisfied and neither are the eyes of men".

Prov. 30:15-16, "There are three things that are never satisfied, four that never have
enough: the grave, the barren womb, land which is never satisfied with
water, and fire which never says, ‘Enough’".

Ecc. 9:10, "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it, for in the grave, where you are going,
there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom".

Cant. 8:6, "..for love is as strong as death, its jealousy as strong as the grave".

Isa. 5:14, "…the grave enlarges its appetite and opens its mouth without limit".

Isa. 14:9, "The grave below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits
of the departed- all those who were leaders in the world …".

Isa. 14:11, "All your pomp has been brought down to the grave…".

Isa. 14:15, "But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit".

Isa. 28:15, "You boast, ‘We have entered into a covenant with death, with the grave,
we have made an agreement".

Isa. 28:18, "Your covenant with death will be annulled, your agreement with the grave
will not stand…".

Isa. 38:10, "I said, ‘In the prime of my life must I go through the gates of death and be
robbed of the rest of my years?’"

Isa. 38:18, "For the grave cannot praise you, death cannot sing your praise, those who
go down to the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness".

Isa. 57:9, "….you descended to the grave itself".

Ezek. 31:15, "…on that day it (Lebanon) was brought down to the grave..".

Ezek. 31:16-17, "I made the nations tremble at the sound of its fall when I brought it
down to the grave. …….Those who lived in its shade, its allies among
the nations, had also gone down to the grave with it, joining those
killed by the sword".

Ezek. 32:21, "From within the grave the mighty leaders will say of Egypt and her allies,
‘they have come down and they lie with the uncircumcised, with those
killed by the sword".

Ezek. 32:27, "Do they not lie with the other uncircumcised warriors who have fallen,
who went down to the grave….".

Hosea 13:14, "I will ransom them (Israel) from the power of the grave, I will redeem
them from death. Where, O death, are your plagues? Where, O grave, is
your destruction?".

Amos 9:2, "Though they dig down to the depths of the grave, from there My hand will
take them".

Jonah 2:2, "….From the depths of the grave I (Jonah) called for help, and you listened to
my cry…."

Hab. 2:5, "….Because he is greedy as the grave and like death is never satisfied…".

I believe that after studying all of the occurrences of the Hebrew word "sheol" as given above, the reader can not help but come to the conclusion that "sheol" means the grave. It is imperative that we understand the meaning of "sheol" because the Greek word "hades", as we shall see, means the exact same thing.

PART III

A STUDY OF THE GREEK WORDS TRANSLATED ‘HELL’

There are three Greek words translated "hell". They are: "hades", "gehenna" and "tartaroo". We shall consider them in that order.

HADES

In Acts 2:25-27 we read Peter’s address to the "men of Israel". "David said about Him, ‘I saw the Lord always before me. Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken. Therefore, my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will live in hope, because you will not abandon me to the grave (hades), you will not let your Holy One see decay". Peter quotes Psalms 16:8-10 in this address. The Greek word "hades" used to translate the Hebrew word "sheol", is the God-breathed translation. In other words, the Greek "hades" is the equivalent of the Hebrew "sheol".

So then, if "sheol" is the grave, then hades is also the grave. Consider I Corinthians 15:53-55, "For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: ‘Death has been swallowed up in victory.’ Where, O hades is your victory? Where, O death is your sting?" The immediate context has to do with the hope promised to believers, i.e. resurrection. There is nothing in this passage of eternal suffering and punishment in hades. Hades is, as sheol is, the grave. I suggest that the reader examine the list of the occurrences of the Greek word, "hades" given below in part IV.

GEHENNA

E.W. Bullinger writes the following paragraphs about Gehenna in his Companion Bible, Appendix number 131. "This is the transliteration of the Heb. Gai Hinnom, i.e. the Valley of Hinnom or ‘the Valley ‘ of [the sons of] Hinom, where were the fires through which children were passed in the worship of Moloch. In the Old Testament Tophet was the Hebrew word used, because it was a place in this valley. In our Lord’s day the idolatry had ceased, but the fires were still continually burning there for the destruction of the refuse of Jerusalem. Hence, "gehenna" was used for the fire of destruction associated with the judgment of God".

We read of this valley in Jeremiah 7:30-34. This portion of scripture gives a very clear picture of Gehenna. "The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the Lord. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name, and have defiled it. They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire -something I did not command nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming declares the Lord, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. I will bring an end to the sounds of joy and gladness and to the voices of the bride and bridegroom in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, for the land will become desolate".

It is clear that the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna, is a very real place on earth. Mark 9:47 is one of the 12 occurrences of "Gehenna". In this verse we read a quote from Isaiah 66:24, "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched and they will be loathsome to all mankind". Two things are important to note in this verse.1) These are dead bodies, not conscious spirits, and 2) These dead bodies are seen, they are on earth, not even in a grave. Gehenna is a very real place on earth in which the refuse of Jerusalem was burnt in the time of our Lord’s ministry on earth. It was associated with judgment, but those burnt there were dead bodies, burnt on earth.

Just as "sheol" and "hades" has just one meaning, i.e. "grave", so "Gehenna", being a real place on earth has just one meaning, i.e. Gehenna, a place where the refuse of Jerusalem was burnt. In my opinion, rather than translate "Gehenna" to "hell" it should have been written "Gehenna". The word "hell" has connotations of living beings being tortured eternally, this is not substantiated by scripture and therefore gives a false picture of the passages where "Gehenna" is translated "hell"

One might object that Gehenna, while a real place on earth, could represent the fires of hell where unbelievers are tortured. This however, is not a valid objection because there are no passages in the Bible that even hint of a place of torture of the unsaved. (Please see the comment on Luke 16 in part seven of this paper). As faithful students of God’s word, we can not make up a place of torture, and then substantiate it with a supposed representation.

TARTAROO

The third Greek word translated "hell" in the New Testament is "tartaroo". It occurs only once, II Peter 2:4, "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell (tartaroo) putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment". Because this word occurs only once, and in the context of the judgment of angels, and never in the context of humans, as students of God’s word we should not, in my opinion, ascribe to tartaroo the traditional picture of hell where there are human beings.


PART IV

A LIST OF THE OCCURRENCES OF THE THREE GREEK WORDS TRANSLATED ‘HELL’

HADES

Matt. 11:23, "And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go
down to the depths".

Matt. 16:18, "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church,
and the gates of hades will not overcome it".

Luke 10:15, "And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted? No, you will go down to the
depths".

Luke 16:23, "In hell, where he (the rich man) was in torment, he looked up and saw
Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side".

Acts 2:27, "because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy
One see decay".

Acts 2:31, "…he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the
grave….."
I Cor. 15:55, "Where, O death is your victory?"

Rev. 1:18, "…I hold the keys of death and Hades".

Rev. 6:8, "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named death and
Hades was following close behind him".

Rev. 20:13, "….and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them".

Rev. 20:14, "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire".

GEHENNA

Matt. 5:22, "…anyone who says, ‘You fool’ will be in danger of the fire of hell".

Matt. 5:29, "…It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body
to be thrown into hell".

Matt. 5:30, "It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body
to be thrown into hell".

Matt. 10:28, "…Rather, be afraid of one who can destroy both soul and body in hell"".


Matt. 18:9, "It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be
thrown into hell".

Matt. 23:15, "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel
over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you
make him twice as much a son of hell as you are".

Matt. 23:33, "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned
to hell?"

Mark 9:43, "…It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into
hell, where the fire never goes out".

Mark 9:45, "It is better to enter into life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown
into hell".

Mark 9:47, "It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have
eyes and be thrown into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire
is not quenched".

Luke 12:5, "…Fear Him, who, after killing the body has the power to throw you into
hell".

James 3:6," …It (the tongue) corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life
on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell".


TARTARTOO

II Peter 2:4, "For if God did not spare angels when they, sinned but sent them to hell,
putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment…."

PART V

THE SCRIPTURAL DESCRIPTION OF DEATH

If the traditional view of hell is not scriptural, and I believe that it is not, what does happen to the unsaved person at death? Let us see what the Bible says of death.

One of the most succinct pictures of what happens at death is found in Ecclesiastes 3:19-21, "Man’s fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath, man has no advantage over the animal. …..All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?

Another clear picture of death is found in Psalms 146:3-4. "Do not put your trust in princes, in mortal men, who cannot save. When their spirit departs, they return to the ground; on that very day their plans come to nothing".

Let us consider some other scriptural passages that describe death. Ps. 31:17, "Let me not be put to shame, O Lord, for I have cried out to you; but let the wicked be put to shame and lie silent in the grave (sheol)". Ps. 115:17, "It is not the dead who praise the Lord, those who go down to silence". These verses show that there is silence in the grave. There are no scriptures that tell of the traditional view of death, therefore we must conclude that the traditional view of death is unscriptural and therefore false.

PART VI

A STUDY OF "SOUL"

At this point the reader might say, ‘Yes, but what about the soul? "Man is three part", one might object, "where does the soul go?" That is a very good question. What about the soul? As I mentioned at the beginning of this paper, the subject of hell is both difficult and easy to understand. Difficult because most Christians come to it with pre-conceived notions, and yet easy, because it is clearly described in the Bible. The same is true of "soul". Let us look at the concept of man being three part; body, soul and spirit.

Gen. 2:7 describes the creation of man. "And the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul". Note, in this verse, man is two part, i.e. 1) the body from the ground, and 2) the breath of life which was breathed into the body. When these two were combined, man became a living soul. Once again we must see how the words translated "soul" are used in the Bible in order to understand the meaning that the Holy Spirit intended.

The Hebrew word translated "soul" in the verses quoted above is nephesh". Its first occurrences are found in Genesis, chapter one. Gen. 1:20, "And God said, ‘Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature (nephesh) that hath life…". Gen. 1:21, "And God created great whales and every living creature (nephesh) that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly…". Gen. 1:24, "And God said, ‘Let the earth bring forth the living creature (nephesh) …the cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth…". Gen. 1:30, "And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth wherein there is life (nephesh) I have given every green herb for meat…".

The traditional view of soul is something spiritual that man has, that is part of man. But the verses quoted above show something very different. How can we come to a definition of soul that allows for the fact that the first occurrences of the Hebrew word translated "soul", are translated "creature" and "life"?

In the King James Version of the Bible "nephesh" is translated in 45 different ways. In my opinion, every occurrence of "nephesh" can be translated with one of only three words, these are "being", "life" or "person". These three words all have the same connotation and will not contradict the meaning of the others.

Let us go back to the first occurrences in Genesis to see if one of the three words suggested above will adequately translate the Hebrew word "nehphesh". Gen.1:20, "…bring forth the moving beings…". Gen. 1:21, "….God created every living being….". Gen. 1:24, "….bring forth the living beings". In my opinion "beings" is a better translation of "nephesh".

Now let us go back to the creation of Man. Gen. 2:7 "…and man became a living being". This translation allows for the word to have the same connotation in all its occurrences, and will not be a stumbling block to the reader when it is applied in the Bible twenty-two times to the lower animals.

May I suggest to the reader that he or she consult a Hebrew Concordance and look at all 754 occurrences of "nephesh" to see if the meaning of that word is held in tact better by the three words I have suggested, than the 45 translations in the King James.

Let us come back, once again to the creation of man. When God brought body and spirit together man became a living being. May I be allowed a rather mundane example from every day life to clarify my point? If I combine a pie- crust with a pie filling I get a pie. That is to say, by combining the two things they became something else. So, when God combined the breath of life with the body from the dust of the earth, man became something else, he became a living being.

There is only one Greek word translated "soul" in the New Testament, it is "psuche". "Psuche" corresponds exactly to the Hebrew word "nephesh" as can be seen by the following comparison. Deut. 6:5 reads, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul (nephesh) and with all your strenghth". In Mark 12:30, Christ quotes this passage, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul (psuche) and with all your mind and with all your strength". We have in this comparison the God-breathed translation of the Hebrew "nephesh" to the Greek "psuche". We know from this that "psuche" is equivalent to the Hebrew word "nephesh". (The translation of "nephesh" and "psuche" could, in these verses, be translated "being" and convey the meaning intended).

To continue our discussion of "soul", once we understand that man does not have a soul, but that man is a soul, we can take at face value (i.e. we don’t have to add something that is not there) the scriptures in Ecclesiastes and Psalms that we looked at above. That is to say, when we read for example in Psalms 146:4 of man’s spirit departing and the body returning to the dust of the ground, we do not have to add that the soul, which is, of course, not mentioned in these passages, goes somewhere. So then, at death, the body goes back to dust, the breath of life departs.

PART VII

SCRIPTURES THAT SEEM TO TEACH THE TRADITIONAL VIEWS

Luke 16 is one passage that seems to teach the traditional views of hell and death, I believe that the paper on this web-site on that passage (The Rich Man And Lazarus) will show otherwise.

We read the phrase "weeping and gnashing of teeth" 12 times in Matthew and Luke. That phrase is explained in the paper on this web-site, The Kingdom Of Heaven.

Many Christians believe that the lake of fire spoken of in Revelation 20 and 21 is the same thing as hell. But Rev. 20:14 shows that they are not the same. "Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. If Hades was the same as the lake of fire, how could Hades be thrown into it.

On this same subject let us consider Rev. 14:11 which, as verse 10 shows, speaks of the lake of fire. "And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name". At first reading it appears that those who are cast into the lake of fire suffer eternally, but let us look a bit closer. First, we read that the smoke "rises for ever and ever", this does not mean that the torture is for ever and ever. Secondly, E.W. Bullinger writes in his note in the Companion Bible on this verse, that it is in the present tense. What that tells us is, that there is no rest for those worshipping the beast, i.e. while they are alive worshipping the beast, they will receive no rest. Also, the paper on this web-site (Will Unbelievers Be Raised For Judgment?) will show that the lake of fire is reserved for a specific group of people, and is not for all the unsaved in every dispensation.


PART VIII

CONCLUSION

What I have tried to show in this paper is:
1. The Hebrew and Greek words translated "hell" do not refer to a place of torment where conscious people suffer in torment. It refers to the grave, or in the case of "Gehenna" to a place on earth where there are dead bodies, not living spirits. Or, in the case of "tartaroo" to a place reserved for angels .
2. Man does not have a soul, he is a soul. Therefore, we can not speak of the soul suffering in hell.
3. Sheol/ Hades is described in the Bible as a place of silence, not a place of suffering.

I believe that when man dies his body returns to dust and his spirit departs. The believer will live again in resurrection. The unbeliever in the dispensation of the mystery dies and his body goes back to the dust of the earth and his spirit departs, and that’s the end of him. In the above mentioned paper on the unbeliever (Will Unbelievers Be Raised For Judgment) I give the reasons for my belief that the unsaved of this dispensation are not raised for judgement.

I realize that these views are non-traditional. That fact in and of itself does not make it false, neither does it make it true. My prayer is that each one will search the scriptures to see if these things are true.

God bless,
Carey

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[guibox]

I'm thinking this thread will be moved to Apologetics and Theology.

Carey, I agree with you completely but you will find that no matter how much biblical evidence you put forth, 90% of the people here will merely ignore it completely for adherence and defence to the traditional view regardless of the logic of your position and the illogistics of theirs.

Just to remind you that if you are leaning to a Universalists slant, that topic is forbidden.

However, one doesn't have to be a universalist to deny the gross error of eternal torment and immediate life after death as a disembodied soul.

 

[Vic C.]

It will be moved there.

Also, a reminder:

9 - Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info. We want to respect copyrighted material. Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.

Yes, it was very long.

Thanks.

 

[Vic C.]

In the meantime...

2. Man does not have a soul, he is a soul. Therefore, we can not speak of the soul suffering in hell.

Actually, scripture suggests both. Do a word study of the word soul in the OT and you will see a difference of definition.

Also, here are some verses that suggest the soul is seperate from the body:

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

Luke 12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
Luke 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

I believe that when man dies his body returns to dust and his spirit departs. The believer will live again in resurrection. The unbeliever in the dispensation of the mystery dies and his body goes back to the dust of the earth and his spirit departs, and that’s the end of him. In the above mentioned paper on the unbeliever (Will Unbelievers Be Raised For Judgment) I give the reasons for my belief that the unsaved of this dispensation are not raised for judgement.

That's not true. Scripture does speak of a resurrection of the unbeliever.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[guibox]

Actually, scripture suggests both. Do a word study of the word soul in the OT and you will see a difference of definition. Here are some verses that suggest the soul is seperate from the body:

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

On the contrary, Vic...The soul also means 'life'. Man can kill the body but God can allow us to 'see corruption' and 'leave our life (soul) in Sheol/Hades' hell(Acts 2:34) or destroy us in 'gehenna' hell so we can never come back Only He can take away our eternal life.

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

What folks fail to neglect is the greater anthropomorphic function of man as a wholistic being. The 'soul' was the seat of emotion and the essence of life and thinking. Man can function as a spiritual, thinking, cogitating being thanks to the breath of life which 'sparks' man to function wholly. Nowhere in the scriptures do these 'parts' function without the other.

Matthew 26:38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me....Luke 12:19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry...Luke 12:20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

Again, the 'soul' was considered the emotional feeling part of man's functioning. There is a deeper meaning to the 'soul/nephesh/psuche' that encompassed many parts and functions of man including the mind, heart, and bowels, but nowhere is this the immortal essence of man that survives death.

 

[Vic C.]

What I questioned was this:

2. Man does not have a soul, he is a soul. Therefore, we can not speak of the soul suffering in hell.

I think the verses I quoted show fairly well that the soul is just one part of the whole human being. Is the soul conscious after the first death? That's debatable, as we well know and I won't go into soul mortality/immortality; that's not what I am arguing.

My argument is that man possesses a God-given soul. Can it be destroyed or sentenced to an eternal seperation before any judgement? I don't think Scripture indicates that at all. I think that anyone who teaches that someone's soul (speaking of nonbelievers now) somehow escapes the final resurrection and judgement and goes straight to it's "final destination" is teaching an untruth. I assume agree with me on that, since you didn't supply a rebuttal on the second half of my post.

Hey, I have a sidebar question... Do you think a cloned human has a soul? ;-)

 

[jgredline]

Lets start with Matthew 5:27

If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Jesus refers here to the bodybeing cast into hell,and the psalmist speaks of bonesbeing scattered at the mouth of hell [sheol](Ps. 141:7). Jacob talked about his gray hairsbeing brought down to hell (Gen. 42:38; cf. 44:29, 31). However, Jesus referred to hell as a place where the soul goes after one dies and is in conscious torment (Luke 16:2223). Is hell just the grave, as the Jehovahs Witnesses and some other cults claim ?

The Hebrew word translated hell(sheol) is also translated graveor pit.It simply means unseen world,and can refer either to the grave, where the body is unseen after burial, or to the spirit world, which is invisible to mortal eyes.

Further, in the Old Testament, sheol often means grave, as indicated by the fact that it is a place where bones(Ps. 141:7), gray hairs(Gen. 42:38), and even weapons (Ps. 76:35) go at death. Even the resurrection of Jesusbody is said to be from hell(i.e., the grave), where it did not see corruption (Acts 2:3031).

There may be allusions to hellas a spirit world in the Old Testament (cf. Prov. 9:18; Isa. 14:9); hell(Greek: hades) is clearly described as a place of departed spirits (souls) in the New Testament. Fallen angels are there and they have no bodies (2 Peter 2:4). Unrepentant human beings are in conscious torment there after they die and their bodies are buried (Luke 16:2223). In the end those in hell will be cast into the lake of fire with the devil where they will be tormented day and night forever(Rev. 20:10, 1415). Jesus spoke many times of hell as a place of conscious and eternal suffering (cf. Matt. 10:28; 18:9; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; 16:23).

For more click here
http://www.pro4machineworks.com/The_doc ... _hell.html

 

[jgredline]

Hey, I have a sidebar question... Do you think a cloned human has a soul? ;-)

Many people are of the opinion that the AntiChrist will be a clone and thus posses no soul. Some even say this of the false prophet as well. The latest person I heard say this was David Hocking.
Seems far fetched to me, but then again :-?

 

[golfjack]

reply

You got that right Jg. If we think living on this earth is torture, I can imagine what hell will be like. No pain pills for sure.



May God bless, golfjack

 

[Gendou Ikari]

I would imagine Clones have Souls. There is no way to tell, but really there is no way to prove we have Souls either.

Another Sidebar question -- Would Artificial Intelligences have Souls?

 

[D46]

Again, one's concept of hell may be impaired depending upon bible version. There is no such word as Hades in the King James bible. Hell translates to hell. According to Webster's Dictionary, Hades is a place for the dead in "Greek mythology"! Did anyone catch that? It's a mythological place for the departed spirits. The word "Sheol" is not there as well.

The first death we all experience consist in the separation of the soul from the body for a season; the second death in the separation of body and soul from God for ever. The first death is that from which there will be a resurrection; the second death is that from which there can be no recovery. By the first the body is destroyed during time; by the second, body and soul are destroyed through eternity in hell. No purgatory, no Hades or Sheol...either Heaven or hell. Remember, Webster believes it to be a myth.

Psalms 16:10 (KJV) For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

NIV (Psalsm 16:10)
10 because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.

Psalms 9:17 (KJV) The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Psalm 9:17 (New International Version)

17 The wicked return to the grave,
all the nations that forget God.

We ALL go to the grave. :roll: I don't believe in a distiniction of a place for the dead who have died without Christ as a "holding tank". One may as well believe in purgatory. There are no levels of "holding". You shut your eyes in death without the Saviour and you're toast! Hades is not always a place of torment or terror! The Assyrian Hades is an abode of blessedness with silver skies called "Happy Fields". In the satanic New Age Movement, Hades is an intermediate state of purification!

The soul does not sleep at death. Paul expected to be with Christ, and to be conscious of the fact--to see him, and to partake of his glory.

Phillipians 1:23 (KJV) For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

It appears only logical then, that when the unsaved die, they are instantly catapulted into hell. No time in purgatory or a "less hot hell".

 

[Bick]

Carey, I commend you on the amount of info you included in your post. It is actually like a small part of a concordance. But, I agree, so much that very few would want to read through it.

I agree with what you are pointing out from the Scriptures regarding "hell".

But, I would like to add that the root meaning of the words "sheol" and "hades", is "unseen" or "unseen state" Young's Concord. page 432.

For example: in Matt. 16:18 the KJV reads "...the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Which, to me, doesn't make sense.

Now, if you substitute "the grave" for "hell" it might read "...the gates of the grave shall not prevail against it". This might make a little more sense; but, since "gates", to me, is a metaphor for "authority" or "power", it could mean the "the powers of the grave shall not prevail..."

But, again, to me, it makes more sense to say "the powers of the unseen shall not prevail against it." For, IMO, Christ was referring to Satan, the unseen adversary, and his kingdom.

Anoither point, Carey. I would like your definition of "the dispensation of the mystery".

Is the paper "Will Unbelievers Be Raised For Judgement?" in a different link in this forum? You say in this paper you give your reasons.

Bick

 

[Bick]

Inevitably a topic like this leads to a study of "soul", and, of course "spirit".

As students of the Bible, we come from different backgrounds and have sat under different teachers.

But...surely, with any topic or doctrine in the Scriptures, one must consider all the scriptures, and make sure they are as literal, as close to the originals as possible.

Now, having said that, after having gone over the verses where Soul (nephesh--Heb.)(psyche--Gk) is used, it is my conclusion that man is a living soul---not a body with an indwelt soul (Gen. 2:7).

Soul could be said to be the consciousness, the feelings, the desires, produced by the breath of life vitalizing the body.

Nowhere in the Scriptures does it say or imply that man's soul is immortal.

But, there are many verses where the soul is said to die or be dead: i.e.,
Lev.19:28; 21:1; 24:17; Num.23:10; Josh.10:28,30,32,35,37; 11:11; Jer.2:34; Ezek.13:19; 22:25-27, and one which is often quoted:

"The soul that sinneth , it shall die", AV. Ezek. 18:4.

In the Bible, just as today, many times a person is called a soul. We say
"Oh, that poor soul." See Gen.12:5; Acts 2:41, 43; 7:14; 27:37; etc.

Obviously a "soul" can't sin as if it were something apart from the body.
If the soul sins, it is because the whole man sins; if the soul dies, it is because the person dies.

All for now. Let's study about "spirit" later. Bick

 

[Bick]

The study of hell

Hi jgredline, in interpreting Matt.5:29 let's look at the context. (Not 5:27).

Starting in Ch.5 Jesus is teaching the multitudes up in a mountain.

First, maybe we should lay down a foundation: Jesus came unto his own, Israel, preaching, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." AV
He was offering the kingdom, the hope of Israel, who were looking for a Messiah to come in power and great glory, not knowing the scripture that he had to suffer first.

Gehenna was a literal place outside the wall of Jerulalem, where the fires were continually burning for the destruction of the refuse of the city. Companion Bible, Appendix 131, pp 163. This was true during Jesus earthly ministry. Hence, geenna was used for the fires of destruction associated with the judgement of God. Sometimes "geenna of fire" was a phrase used.

It was considered the worst kind of judgement, having ones body cast into geenna of fire after having been stoned to death.

IMO, geenna will again be outside the wall of the rebuilt Jerusalem in the Millennium, the coming kingdom age. For Jesus in Matt.5,6 & 7 is teaching about the coming blessings and warnings or rules for righteous living, and of course, most of them applied right then.

Now, Matt. 5:29 and 30. Whether or not these verses mean to literally destroy some part of you body, because it offended (made you sin?), you must be the judge of that. But, in the kingdom to come, Jesus is teaching how stringent, how careful one must live.

At any rate, the compilers of the KJ and other versions used "hell" for "Gehenna". And, to find out the truth, one should use a good concordance and more literal translations.

All the places in the AV and most others, wrongly have Jesus warning about the fires of hell instead of Gehenna.

 

[carey]

Carey, I commend you on the amount of info you included in your post. It is actually like a small part of a concordance. But, I agree, so much that very few would want to read through it.

I agree with what you are pointing out from the Scriptures regarding "hell".

But, I would like to add that the root meaning of the words "sheol" and "hades", is "unseen" or "unseen state" Young's Concord. page 432.

For example: in Matt. 16:18 the KJV reads "...the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Which, to me, doesn't make sense.

Now, if you substitute "the grave" for "hell" it might read "...the gates of the grave shall not prevail against it". This might make a little more sense; but, since "gates", to me, is a metaphor for "authority" or "power", it could mean the "the powers of the grave shall not prevail..."

But, again, to me, it makes more sense to say "the powers of the unseen shall not prevail against it." For, IMO, Christ was referring to Satan, the unseen adversary, and his kingdom.

Anoither point, Carey. I would like your definition of "the dispensation of the mystery".

Is the paper "Will Unbelievers Be Raised For Judgement?" in a different link in this forum? You say in this paper you give your reasons.

Bick

Thanks bick this is just info from someone else that has similar beliefs to mine.
The link if you want it I can get but you will ahve to remind me in an e-mail.

God bless,
Carey

 

[mutzrein]

More fuel to the fire huh :-?

 

[carey]

agreed

What I questioned was this:


I think the verses I quoted show fairly well that the soul is just one part of the whole human being. Is the soul conscious after the first death? That's debatable, as we well know and I won't go into soul mortality/immortality; that's not what I am arguing.

My argument is that man possesses a God-given soul. Can it be destroyed or sentenced to an eternal seperation before any judgement? I don't think Scripture indicates that at all. I think that anyone who teaches that someone's soul (speaking of nonbelievers now) somehow escapes the final resurrection and judgement and goes straight to it's "final destination" is teaching an untruth. I assume agree with me on that, since you didn't supply a rebuttal on the second half of my post.

Hey, I have a sidebar question... Do you think a cloned human has a soul? ;-)

This study was not done by me the original poster of the thread.
I agree with much of the study.
But disagree with people that have intentionally turned away from the Gospel. I think they will be Judged then destroyed.
but I think the ones who never heard the Gospel will have a chance to hear it in the 1000 year reign.

God bless,
Carey

 

[jgredline]

Re: The study of hell

Hi jgredline, in interpreting Matt.5:29 let's look at the context. (Not 5:27).

Yes, I always do.
Starting in Ch.5 Jesus is teaching the multitudes up in a mountain.

First, maybe we should lay down a foundation: Jesus came unto his own, Israel, preaching, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." AV
He was offering the kingdom, the hope of Israel, who were looking for a Messiah to come in power and great glory, not knowing the scripture that he had to suffer first.

Gehenna was a literal place outside the wall of Jerulalem, where the fires were continually burning for the destruction of the refuse of the city. Companion Bible, Appendix 131, pp 163. This was true during Jesus earthly ministry. Hence, geenna was used for the fires of destruction associated with the judgement of God. Sometimes "geenna of fire" was a phrase used.

It was considered the worst kind of judgement, having ones body cast into geenna of fire after having been stoned to death.


Yes. I agree. I am quite familiar with what you have said. Jesus Often used real places and things people of the day would understand. This is why church history and customes of the day are vital to true bible understanding and interpretaion.

IMO, geenna will again be outside the wall of the rebuilt Jerusalem in the Millennium, the coming kingdom age. For Jesus in Matt.5,6 & 7 is teaching about the coming blessings and warnings or rules for righteous living, and of course, most of them applied right then.

Now, Matt. 5:29 and 30. Whether or not these verses mean to literally destroy some part of you body, because it offended (made you sin?), you must be the judge of that. But, in the kingdom to come, Jesus is teaching how stringent, how careful one must live.

Bick
This is something I have not thought about, but in the quick reading, makes sense. I will study it a little further and see what I come up with. Pretty good.

At any rate, the compilers of the KJ and other versions used "hell" for "Gehenna". And, to find out the truth, one should use a good concordance and more literal translations.

All the places in the AV and most others, wrongly have Jesus warning about the fires of hell instead of Gehenna.

Very true. This is why I took Greek and entry level biblical Hebrew.
with many discussions though, we need to meet people where they are at. Some understand more and so we can introduce more theology, some that are on milk, then we need to meet them where they are at, Anyway its good.
Thanks,
javier

 

[carey]

sorry

What I questioned was this:


I think the verses I quoted show fairly well that the soul is just one part of the whole human being. Is the soul conscious after the first death? That's debatable, as we well know and I won't go into soul mortality/immortality; that's not what I am arguing.

My argument is that man possesses a God-given soul. Can it be destroyed or sentenced to an eternal seperation before any judgement? I don't think Scripture indicates that at all. I think that anyone who teaches that someone's soul (speaking of nonbelievers now) somehow escapes the final resurrection and judgement and goes straight to it's "final destination" is teaching an untruth. I assume agree with me on that, since you didn't supply a rebuttal on the second half of my post.

Hey, I have a sidebar question... Do you think a cloned human has a soul? ;-)

I forgot to answer your question in my last response to this post.
But if God allows a Human to be cloned and it works. I believe that human will have a soul.

 

[guibox]

The first death we all experience consist in the separation of the soul from the body for a season; the second death in the separation of body and soul from God for ever.

Please support this conclusion with scripture..

a) by the nature of the word 'soul' - nephesh/psuche'
b) that my soul is the thinking part of man that survives my physical death and goes to heaven
c) and the actual verses that say my immortal soul goes to heaven at death.

Please remember that the 'spirit' is not the 'soul...

The first death is that from which there will be a resurrection; the second death is that from which there can be no recovery. By the first the body is destroyed during time; by the second, body and soul are destroyed through eternity in hell.

Unfortunately, people try to make 'death' mean 'eternal conscious torment' when the Bible doesn't use it this way. Death is death, not eternal conscious separation and torment'. The first death and the second death are tied in in that one is resurrected from the first, but the second is eternal 'death'.

No purgatory, no Hades or Sheol...either Heaven or hell. Remember, Webster believes it to be a myth....We ALL go to the grave. :roll: I don't believe in a distiniction of a place for the dead who have died without Christ as a "holding tank". One may as well believe in purgatory. There are no levels of "holding". You shut your eyes in death without the Saviour and you're toast! Hades is not always a place of torment or terror! The Assyrian Hades is an abode of blessedness with silver skies called "Happy Fields". In the satanic New Age Movement, Hades is an intermediate state of purification!

I'm really confused as to your posting. Are you trying to separate 'hell' from the words Hades and Sheol and make the terms void but allow 'hell' to remain? That makes no sense linguistically. You cannot fall on the English hell and interpret it as a stand alone term when this term has only come about by the Greek Hades and Hebrew Sheol. They are used constantly to refer to the grave where all men go...., hence in the instances where Hades and Sheol are used for hell, they mean 'the grave' and not some conscious afterlife. The metaphorical uses of these places does occur but the literalness of the language is to describe the grave is used all over scripture. Other than 'gehenna' in the NT, where 'hell' is used for Hades and Sheol, it means 'the grave'.

Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying.

It appears only logical then, that when the unsaved die, they are instantly catapulted into hell. No time in purgatory or a "less hot hell".

No, as the bible says, all go to their grave and await resurrection to judgment. The righteous at the second coming, the wicked at the second resurrection spoken of in Revelation 20.