[_ Old Earth _] Abiogenics?

[John]

I see so many thread on evolution, but according to most, Abiogenics and evolution are separate theory's.

So lets discus the first life, how can non living material produce life ?

logically it can't, but i want to see what "evidence" there is for it.

 

[Jayls5]

I see so many thread on evolution, but according to most, Abiogenics and evolution are separate theory's.

So lets discus the first life, how can non living material produce life ?

logically it can't, but i want to see what "evidence" there is for it.

I think before I even bother to discuss this, you should probably explain how it logically can't. I didn't see an argument for that.

 

[jwu]

Abiogenesis (sic!) is a field that doesn't have a real theory yet, it is in the hypothesis state right now.

The very short version would be like this:
polymers -> replicating polymers -> hypercycles -> protobionts -> bacteria

 

[John]

Abiogenesis (sic!) is a field that doesn't have a real theory yet, it is in the hypothesis state right now.

The very short version would be like this:
polymers -> replicating polymers -> hypercycles -> protobionts -> bacteria

then the obvious question is how did they get there ?

Its funny, scientists base all there thoughts and such, and they have no clue how it happened, but it did happen.

It cannot be god : , they are trying so hard to deny god, all in vain.

 

[John]

I see so many thread on evolution, but according to most, Abiogenics and evolution are separate theory's.

So lets discus the first life, how can non living material produce life ?

logically it can't, but i want to see what "evidence" there is for it.

I think before I even bother to discuss this, you should probably explain how it logically can't. I didn't see an argument for that.

Non living to living how the heck can it be ? logically it can't happen. if you can't see that then wow, i mean...o boy..holy crap...OMFG : :-D : :-D

 

[jwu]

then the obvious question is how did they get there ?

Its funny, scientists base all there thoughts and such, and they have no clue how it happened, but it did happen.

Just wondering...how did you get the impression that they have "no clue"? Did you some research about this in the scientific literature? Which journals did you check?

It cannot be god : , they are trying so hard to deny god, all in vain.

How about all those Christian scientists out there?

 

[freeway]

Re: Biogenics?

Oh please jw enlighten us on this theory that is not a theory but they call it a theory... million of years of lighting hitting a puddle of water and then .... wait for it.... LIFE.. now of course they have all the scientific proof one could ask for.... FAITH

 

[freeway]

my theory.... God did it... :-D

 

[Jayls5]

Abiogenesis (sic!) is a field that doesn't have a real theory yet, it is in the hypothesis state right now.

The very short version would be like this:
polymers -> replicating polymers -> hypercycles -> protobionts -> bacteria

then the obvious question is how did they get there ?

Its funny, scientists base all there thoughts and such, and they have no clue how it happened, but it did happen.

It cannot be god : , they are trying so hard to deny god, all in vain.

In all sincerity, what are you talking about?

Abiogenesis is basically a relatively unsupported hypothesis. They created some essential amino acids for life out of non living substances. That's about all the evidence we have for it.

It's not an effort to defy God. It's an effort to understand the world we live in. We came close to creating living substances out of Miller's experiment with relatively little effort. That's all we can say. We have NO interest in disproving God, denying God, or whatever other ridiculous misconception of science you have manifested.

 

[jwu]

Re: Biogenics?

Oh please jw enlighten us on this theory that is not a theory but they call it a theory... million of years of lighting hitting a puddle of water and then .... wait for it.... LIFE.. now of course they have all the scientific proof one could ask for.... FAITH

Well, we'll never know if the postulated hypothesis is how it really happened, just whether it is possible if it happened that way. Did you read my above post? I outlined the rough process there.

 

[Ignatz]

Abiogenesis (sic!) is a field that doesn't have a real theory yet, it is in the hypothesis state right now.

The very short version would be like this:
polymers -> replicating polymers -> hypercycles -> protobionts -> bacteria

then the obvious question is how did they get there ?

Its funny, scientists base all there thoughts and such, and they have no clue how it happened, but it did happen.

It cannot be god : , they are trying so hard to deny god, all in vain.

Nobody is TRYING to deny God, so to speak. They are trying to discover how the natural world works. Not knowing at the present time does not equal "We'll NEVER know", but there is no evidence that life is the result of a supernatural agent.

We don't have a full understanding of how gravity works, either, but invoking the "God-of-the-gaps" does not bring anything to the table.

Sure, it COULD be God, but Where's the evidence? The fact that the basic constituents of life were so easily created in a lab suggests that maybe life is not that difficult or unlikely.

 

[John]

Last thing i heard the only thing he created was amino acids, he also found out that you can't create life with oxygen or without oxygen.

"The scientist said that there was very little hydrogen within early-earth atmosphere because they escaped into space. How can anything escape into space? How can anything of earth escape earth's gravity? Unless, of course, the object's initial velocity is 11.2 Km/s (while excluding the friction of the atmosphere). So what has propelled the entire Hydrogen atom into space? And after this point, I found it difficult to continue reading. " - The Case For Creation.

How do these people know what the original atmosphere was ? it blows me away that people can makes these assumptions, and have everyone believe thats what happened.

 

[Ignatz]

Last thing i heard the only thing he created was amino acids, he also found out that you can't create life with oxygen or without oxygen.

"The scientist said that there was very little hydrogen within early-earth atmosphere because they escaped into space. How can anything escape into space? How can anything of earth escape earth's gravity? Unless, of course, the object's initial velocity is 11.2 Km/s (while excluding the friction of the atmosphere). So what has propelled the entire Hydrogen atom into space? And after this point, I found it difficult to continue reading. " - The Case For Creation.

How do these people know what the original atmosphere was ? it blows me away that people can makes these assumptions, and have everyone believe thats what happened.

Hydrogen is lighter than air.

 

[Jayls5]

Last thing i heard the only thing he created was amino acids, he also found out that you can't create life with oxygen or without oxygen.

"The scientist said that there was very little hydrogen within early-earth atmosphere because they escaped into space. How can anything escape into space? How can anything of earth escape earth's gravity? Unless, of course, the object's initial velocity is 11.2 Km/s (while excluding the friction of the atmosphere). So what has propelled the entire Hydrogen atom into space? And after this point, I found it difficult to continue reading. " - The Case For Creation.

How do these people know what the original atmosphere was ? it blows me away that people can makes these assumptions, and have everyone believe thats what happened.

No. He just found out that he couldn't make life with his experiment he constructed. He just made the building blocks. That's all.

Abiogenesis is simply not that well studied by comparison to evolution.

 

[John]

There is only 2 models for this as well.

1. God did it

2. Nothing did it, it just happened.

But If God did it, then that means God is real and so is what he says i.e the Bible, But the opposing people that say nothing did it pretty much leave it at that. How can you base your existence on nothing ?

 

[jwu]

But If God did it, then that means God is real and so is what he says i.e the Bible

Someone's interpretation of the Bible still can be flawed though.

And moreover, "God did it" doesn't necessarily mean "the Christian God did it". It could have been Vishnu, Odin, Zeus [insert a long list of names of deities].

 

[John]

But If God did it, then that means God is real and so is what he says i.e the Bible

Someone's interpretation of the Bible still can be flawed though.

And moreover, "God did it" doesn't necessarily mean "the Christian God did it". It could have been Vishnu, Odin, Zeus [insert a long list of names of deities].

My God is the only real one, My Bible Was my First one, everything else was made after because they did not like they way my God was. typical humans for ya, the biggest problem now is the atheist, who believes in no god, this is up there with Hinduism, Jehovah's witness [insert long list of cults]

 

[jwu]

My God is the only real one, My Bible Was my First one, everything else was made after because they did not like they way my God was.

*Shrugs* There are plenty of people who'd say pretty much the same, yet they don't share your beliefs.

I take it that you have no actual evidence that a potential creator-God would have to be the Judeo-Christian one?

 

[Deep Thought]

My God is the only real one, My Bible Was my First one, everything else was made after because they did not like they way my God was. typical humans for ya, the biggest problem now is the atheist, who believes in no god, this is up there with Hinduism, Jehovah's witness [insert long list of cults]

The Bible and Christianity came a long time after many other major religions. There is plenty of research into all of the elements Christianity borrowed from other religions and rituals.

A correction on your definition of an atheist. An atheist is a person who lacks belief in gods (note the plural). John, you are an atheist in respect to Vishnu, Thor, Ra etc, etc. Atheists just go one god further than you do.

 

[John]

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

you shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me,

but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

I no longer am gonna refer to Christian to be a religion. instead its a relationship. i don't like being in the same list as all them false religions/gods.