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Bible Study Abortion

StoveBolts said:
Does that clear things up? If you would like, I can give scripture that agree’s in principal with what I’ve stated.
Click to expand...

Not especially but that's okay.
 
Imagican: First one: Since WHEN are WE to trust in OUR judgement OVER that of the God that we PROFESS to LOVE and follow. Isn't it: ''Thy will be done'' that we offer in prayer.

B: And, yet, God didn't give us wings, yet you still obtain transportation on aircraft. The problem with this sort of posturing is it atempts to generalize everything when actually what you are doing is being highly selective.

I: Now, as concerns BIRTH CONTROL. Aren't WE taking OURSELVES above the authority of God when we PREVENT conception?

B: A critic of Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre claimed by advocating social mobility (movement from one class or another) Bronte was opposing "the appointment of God". She was wrong and so are you. You are no more doing that by taking birth control than by taking aspirin. Any claim otherwise is just crawfishin'.

I: ANYTHING that WE DO that usurps the AUTHORITY of God in our lives shows a LACK OF FAITH and through such IGNORING of God's will can ONLY impede one's walk.

B: Then what are you doing typing on a computer keyboard? By taking advantage of this sort of technology but condemning others you show hypocricy.

I: We have an instance offered where a man LITERALLY DIED for 'spilling his seed USELESSLY'. AGAINST God's WILL.

B: Onan? Because by not impregnating Tamar he deprived her of her birthright. Try again.

I: Now, you would indicate that it actually irritates YOU to hear those that STATE that birth control IS NOT OK. Why is that?

B: Because I reject any pretensions of authority in those doing so and believe they harm many with their irresposible utterances.

I: Why would it bother you AT ALL to FACE the truth and that TRUTH BEING that EVERYTHING that WE DO SHOULD BE to the GLORY of God.

B: The above accusation against me is a logical error. I no more nor any less than you take advantage of the products of society. Birth control is "to the Glory of God". So is Microsoft. deal with it.

I: Now EXPLAIN how attempting to BE the ONE IN CONTROL of YOUR LIFE is doing ANYTHING other than usurping the AUTHORITY of God. I would surely LOVE for you to explain to me in a way that SCRIPTURALLY makes SENSE.

B: Your premise is ridiculous. There is no way you are doing that any less than me.

I: Now, IF YOU believe that it's OK for YOU to usurp the authority of God by practicing birth control, the CORRECT thing to DO would be to EXPLAIN the TRUTH to others rather than TRYING to defend something that you should KNOW is against the will of God.

B: You are not competent to declare to me what is the "correct" course of action for me. I will say this and say this unequivocally: birth control is no more 'against the will of God' than macaroni and cheese. If you believe otherwise the burden is on you to prove it. I am not obligated to you in any form. You have chosen to speak to me as if to imply you have some authority over me: you do not, much as you appear to wish otherwise be so. deal with it.

I: Let me ask this: Can you imagine MARY using 'birth control'?

B: Easily.

I: Now compare the answer to this to any feelings or desires that YOU may have.

B: My feelings or desires? What in the Sam Hill are you talking about?

I: IF you desire to aid your brothers and sisters in Christ, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to DO So by encouraging THEM through the wisdom of this WORLD.

B: Like you are doing here with the use of technology?

I: Like ANYTHING else that we DO that separates us from the LOVE of God, one SHOULD be aware that abortion, birth control, ANYTHING that we DO that is AGAINST His WILL

B: there is no evidence of this, merely your uninformed and agressively stated opinion.

FYI, I am an emergency room nurse and not easily intimidated by agressive behavior.
 
Barbara Allan said:
StoveBolts said:
Does that clear things up? If you would like, I can give scripture that agree’s in principal with what I’ve stated.
Click to expand...

Not especially but that's okay.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm not sure what else I can say to the matter then. I would like to thank you for patience and for your etiquette within this thread. I know that you have shown great restraint in other areas of this discussion and I appreciate that. You set a decent example that others could certainly learn from.

I believe that we do share much in common, though your are free to disagree, and in the realm of providing alternative means to abortion, such as health care, daycare, adoption services, education etc, I could see myself supporting you in those causes.

I suppose I'll throw this last item out there. Again, this may make other Christians uncomfortable, but I don't see the prevention of conception as an issue unless it directly destroys that which has already been conceived. Once conception has occurred, the issues of abortion has the potential to get far more complex.

MEC or others that wish to bring into account, "As far as the 'seed' spilling", to use that verse in support of the prevention of conception, it is a farce without taking the whole context and levitical law into account.
 
Stove,

The issue of the 'spilt seed' not only pertains to THIS issue, but to MANY in which those UNWILLING to submit to the Spirit would fare WELL to heed.

For it the USURPING of the WILL of God which it pertains to. NOT only in direct reference TO The issue at hand, but in ALL that we would DO in opposition to the WILL of God.

That you are unable to SEE the relevance does NOT mean that it does NOT exist. For OFTEN our DEISRES ARE able to blind us from that which IS truth. We create our Own truth for the sake of will or concience and then become unable to SEE past it.

MEC
 
Funny, he sure looks like a baby to me
CRIB_baby_in_womb.jpg


But I guess its legal to kill him and throw him in the trash, right? Thats the "law" right?
 
Barbara Allan said:
Imagican: First one: Since WHEN are WE to trust in OUR judgement OVER that of the God that we PROFESS to LOVE and follow. Isn't it: ''Thy will be done'' that we offer in prayer.

B: And, yet, God didn't give us wings, yet you still obtain transportation on aircraft. The problem with this sort of posturing is it atempts to generalize everything when actually what you are doing is being highly selective.

There is NO direct indication that US developing the ability to create aircraft in ANY way 'usurps HIS authority. NOT relevant to the WILL of God as we have been OFFERED in scripture.

I: Now, as concerns BIRTH CONTROL. Aren't WE taking OURSELVES above the authority of God when we PREVENT conception?

B: A critic of Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre claimed by advocating social mobility (movement from one class or another) Bronte was opposing "the appointment of God". She was wrong and so are you. You are no more doing that by taking birth control than by taking aspirin. Any claim otherwise is just crawfishin'.

In YOUR opinion I accept the offering. But that OPINION is of a 'worldly scent' that has NO bearing on TRUTH. The individuals that you use for example are NOTHING other than those that would choose their OWN wisdom over that of God's. For I am familiar with your Jane Eyre.............

I: ANYTHING that WE DO that usurps the AUTHORITY of God in our lives shows a LACK OF FAITH and through such IGNORING of God's will can ONLY impede one's walk.

B: Then what are you doing typing on a computer keyboard? By taking advantage of this sort of technology but condemning others you show hypocricy.

No. That is where YOU show your ignorance of what we ARE able to DO without dissention AGAINST God. For NO means that I am able to offer TRUTH through is to be considered a 'bad thing' or 'unrighteous'. Now, if I were using my computer to lead others AGAINST the Word of God, then YES, I would CERTAINLY BE the hypocrite to which YOU refered.

I: We have an instance offered where a man LITERALLY DIED for 'spilling his seed USELESSLY'. AGAINST God's WILL.

B: Onan? Because by not impregnating Tamar he deprived her of her birthright. Try again.

While you may CHOOSE to ELIMINATE the implications of this offering, it is NOT without significance to those ABLE to SEE it.

I: Now, you would indicate that it actually irritates YOU to hear those that STATE that birth control IS NOT OK. Why is that?

B: Because I reject any pretensions of authority in those doing so and believe they harm many with their irresposible utterances.

You didn't answer the question except to offer that YOUR belief is what is MOST important over that which has been offered in Spirit. What you would also consider to BE irresponsible would be for me to offer that our LIVES should BE devoted to God through HIs Son. Correct? And if you refute this statement, EXPLAIN HOW one is ABLE to devote their lives TO God without SUBMITTING to HIS WILL?

I: Why would it bother you AT ALL to FACE the truth and that TRUTH BEING that EVERYTHING that WE DO SHOULD BE to the GLORY of God.

B: The above accusation against me is a logical error. I no more nor any less than you take advantage of the products of society. Birth control is "to the Glory of God". So is Microsoft. deal with it.

Wow, you are indeed of the spirit of Eve, wouldn't you SAY? That it be YOUR WILL be done rather than that of the Father?

I: Now EXPLAIN how attempting to BE the ONE IN CONTROL of YOUR LIFE is doing ANYTHING other than usurping the AUTHORITY of God. I would surely LOVE for you to explain to me in a way that SCRIPTURALLY makes SENSE.

B: Your premise is ridiculous. There is no way you are doing that any less than me.

Really? That I preach that which has been offered in scripture and Spirit MAKES ME doing the SAME as you? yet you REFUTE BOTH...............

I: Now, IF YOU believe that it's OK for YOU to usurp the authority of God by practicing birth control, the CORRECT thing to DO would be to EXPLAIN the TRUTH to others rather than TRYING to defend something that you should KNOW is against the will of God.

B: You are not competent to declare to me what is the "correct" course of action for me. I will say this and say this unequivocally: birth control is no more 'against the will of God' than macaroni and cheese. If you believe otherwise the burden is on you to prove it. I am not obligated to you in any form. You have chosen to speak to me as if to imply you have some authority over me: you do not, much as you appear to wish otherwise be so. deal with it.

It is NOT 'my' authority Barb, but God's. Whether you LIKE IT OR NOT, He OWNS You. You ARE obligated to abide by His commandments or suffer the consequences. What disturbs ME is that YOU would come here and state subversive OPINION in TOTAL disregard for your brothers and sisters. That you would encourage THEM to follow the same path of destruction that YOU have followed in your belief that YOUR opinions are relevant in a forum devoted to the discussion of God and HIS will verses OUR OWN. In total disregard of scripture or anything contained within it.

I: Let me ask this: Can you imagine MARY using 'birth control'?

B: Easily.

And I could have answered that question FOR YOU before I even asked it. I just wanted OTHERS to hear you ADMIT IT. And I guess you would have faired JUST as well WITHOUT a Savior if the ABILITY had existed THEN?

I: Now compare the answer to this to any feelings or desires that YOU may have.

B: My feelings or desires? What in the Sam Hill are you talking about?

And I didn't THINK that you WOULD understand.

I: IF you desire to aid your brothers and sisters in Christ, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to DO So by encouraging THEM through the wisdom of this WORLD.

B: Like you are doing here with the use of technology?

I am simply ATTEMPTING to offer what I have BEEN GIVEN through ANY means POSSIBLE. If YOU do the same, then I leaveit up to those that DO have understanding to determine WHO has given YOU what YOU offer, (or me for that matter), for the FRUIT of the Spirit is APPARENT to those that are ABLE to RECOGNIZE it.

I: Like ANYTHING else that we DO that separates us from the LOVE of God, one SHOULD be aware that abortion, birth control, ANYTHING that we DO that is AGAINST His WILL

B: there is no evidence of this, merely your uninformed and agressively stated opinion.

No, Barb, I was ONCE much MORE like you than I am proud to admit. I TOO believed that MY will was MORE important than following that of the Father through His Son. And what you would call 'agressive' I would offer in description as AUTHORITIVE. But I can SEE that you would have an EVEN BIGGER problem with that. So let us stick with YOUR accusation instead; agressive, for I have NO problem 'standing up' in defense of TRUTH verses the 'desires' of this world.

FYI, I am an emergency room nurse and not easily intimidated by agressive behavior.
Click to expand...

If you THINK that i have offered what I have offered to intimidate, you ARE truly confused. What I have offered to both YOU and others that may read these words is UNDERSTANDING. That you are desirous of 'something else' doesn't AFFECT my offering in the least.

Barb, I LOVE you. If I didn't, I would be AGREEING with you.

Forgive me if you percieve that my words are an 'attack AGAINST YOU' for they are NOT, they are an attack against YOUR WORDS. I don't even KNOW you, but your words are CLEAR.

Do I propose that we LINCH those that CHOOSE to have abortions? Absolutely NOT. Do I propose that we OUTLAW abortion? ABSOLUTELY NOT. For I am well aware that it behoves us LITTLE to make physical criminals out of 'mothers' that do NOT wish to BE or the doctors that wish to offer them their WILL. But also understand THIS; what I offer here is NOT 'my WILL'.

I not only BELIEVE, but KNOW that ALL that we DO, WILL one day be judged. And for this very REASON I would offer TRUTH to my brothers and sisters and by all means NOT lead them in ANY direction that I KNOW could be contradictory to THEIR EDIFICATION and that of Our LORD'S.

Barb,

Humor me. Just for MY curiosity, what denomination do you practice....? This is NOT a 'barb', (pardon the pun), it is an HONEST question that I truly desire an honest answer to. For IF I am to attempt an understanding, REGARDLESS of differing OPINION, of 'who' I discuss such issues with, WHAT one professes to follow is pertinent for ME to be ABLE to discuss such issues.

For example: If you proclaim to BE an atheist, then I would understand your replies COMPLETELY. But if you professed to BE a Baptist, then I would KNOW that you are going AGAINST that which the statement of FAITH exists for those that profess such a 'belief'.

And I do NOT hold ANY denomination or lack thereof AGAINST AnYONE. For there are many that have simply NOT come to the TRUTH yet for WHATEVER reason. Their OWN, of course, but NOT that which has been UNIVERSALLY offered through scripture and Spirit.

It's ONLY fair that I offer YOU that I am NOT a Catholic, NOR, in my opinon, a Protestant. I am simply a believer in God, Our Father, and Christ, His Son, OUR Savior. And that we HAVE the Spirit to GUIDE us in UNDERSTANING. i don't EVEN like the title of Christian for I don't REALLY believe that I KNOW what it MEANS.

But what do YOU follow?

Blessings

MEC
 
Imagican said:
Barbara Allan said:
Imagican: First one: Since WHEN are WE to trust in OUR judgement OVER that of the God that we PROFESS to LOVE and follow. Isn't it: ''Thy will be done'' that we offer in prayer.

B: And, yet, God didn't give us wings, yet you still obtain transportation on aircraft. The problem with this sort of posturing is it atempts to generalize everything when actually what you are doing is being highly selective.

There is NO direct indication that US developing the ability to create aircraft in ANY way 'usurps HIS authority. NOT relevant to the WILL of God as we have been OFFERED in scripture.

I: Now, as concerns BIRTH CONTROL. Aren't WE taking OURSELVES above the authority of God when we PREVENT conception?

B: A critic of Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre claimed by advocating social mobility (movement from one class or another) Bronte was opposing "the appointment of God". She was wrong and so are you. You are no more doing that by taking birth control than by taking aspirin. Any claim otherwise is just crawfishin'.

In YOUR opinion I accept the offering. But that OPINION is of a 'worldly scent' that has NO bearing on TRUTH. The individuals that you use for example are NOTHING other than those that would choose their OWN wisdom over that of God's. For I am familiar with your Jane Eyre.............

I: ANYTHING that WE DO that usurps the AUTHORITY of God in our lives shows a LACK OF FAITH and through such IGNORING of God's will can ONLY impede one's walk.

B: Then what are you doing typing on a computer keyboard? By taking advantage of this sort of technology but condemning others you show hypocricy.

No. That is where YOU show your ignorance of what we ARE able to DO without dissention AGAINST God. For NO means that I am able to offer TRUTH through is to be considered a 'bad thing' or 'unrighteous'. Now, if I were using my computer to lead others AGAINST the Word of God, then YES, I would CERTAINLY BE the hypocrite to which YOU refered.

I: We have an instance offered where a man LITERALLY DIED for 'spilling his seed USELESSLY'. AGAINST God's WILL.

B: Onan? Because by not impregnating Tamar he deprived her of her birthright. Try again.

While you may CHOOSE to ELIMINATE the implications of this offering, it is NOT without significance to those ABLE to SEE it.

I: Now, you would indicate that it actually irritates YOU to hear those that STATE that birth control IS NOT OK. Why is that?

B: Because I reject any pretensions of authority in those doing so and believe they harm many with their irresposible utterances.

You didn't answer the question except to offer that YOUR belief is what is MOST important over that which has been offered in Spirit. What you would also consider to BE irresponsible would be for me to offer that our LIVES should BE devoted to God through HIs Son. Correct? And if you refute this statement, EXPLAIN HOW one is ABLE to devote their lives TO God without SUBMITTING to HIS WILL?

I: Why would it bother you AT ALL to FACE the truth and that TRUTH BEING that EVERYTHING that WE DO SHOULD BE to the GLORY of God.

B: The above accusation against me is a logical error. I no more nor any less than you take advantage of the products of society. Birth control is "to the Glory of God". So is Microsoft. deal with it.

Wow, you are indeed of the spirit of Eve, wouldn't you SAY? That it be YOUR WILL be done rather than that of the Father?

I: Now EXPLAIN how attempting to BE the ONE IN CONTROL of YOUR LIFE is doing ANYTHING other than usurping the AUTHORITY of God. I would surely LOVE for you to explain to me in a way that SCRIPTURALLY makes SENSE.

B: Your premise is ridiculous. There is no way you are doing that any less than me.

Really? That I preach that which has been offered in scripture and Spirit MAKES ME doing the SAME as you? yet you REFUTE BOTH...............

I: Now, IF YOU believe that it's OK for YOU to usurp the authority of God by practicing birth control, the CORRECT thing to DO would be to EXPLAIN the TRUTH to others rather than TRYING to defend something that you should KNOW is against the will of God.

B: You are not competent to declare to me what is the "correct" course of action for me. I will say this and say this unequivocally: birth control is no more 'against the will of God' than macaroni and cheese. If you believe otherwise the burden is on you to prove it. I am not obligated to you in any form. You have chosen to speak to me as if to imply you have some authority over me: you do not, much as you appear to wish otherwise be so. deal with it.

It is NOT 'my' authority Barb, but God's. Whether you LIKE IT OR NOT, He OWNS You. You ARE obligated to abide by His commandments or suffer the consequences. What disturbs ME is that YOU would come here and state subversive OPINION in TOTAL disregard for your brothers and sisters. That you would encourage THEM to follow the same path of destruction that YOU have followed in your belief that YOUR opinions are relevant in a forum devoted to the discussion of God and HIS will verses OUR OWN. In total disregard of scripture or anything contained within it.

I: Let me ask this: Can you imagine MARY using 'birth control'?

B: Easily.

And I could have answered that question FOR YOU before I even asked it. I just wanted OTHERS to hear you ADMIT IT. And I guess you would have faired JUST as well WITHOUT a Savior if the ABILITY had existed THEN?

I: Now compare the answer to this to any feelings or desires that YOU may have.

B: My feelings or desires? What in the Sam Hill are you talking about?

And I didn't THINK that you WOULD understand.

I: IF you desire to aid your brothers and sisters in Christ, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to DO So by encouraging THEM through the wisdom of this WORLD.

B: Like you are doing here with the use of technology?

I am simply ATTEMPTING to offer what I have BEEN GIVEN through ANY means POSSIBLE. If YOU do the same, then I leaveit up to those that DO have understanding to determine WHO has given YOU what YOU offer, (or me for that matter), for the FRUIT of the Spirit is APPARENT to those that are ABLE to RECOGNIZE it.

I: Like ANYTHING else that we DO that separates us from the LOVE of God, one SHOULD be aware that abortion, birth control, ANYTHING that we DO that is AGAINST His WILL

B: there is no evidence of this, merely your uninformed and agressively stated opinion.

No, Barb, I was ONCE much MORE like you than I am proud to admit. I TOO believed that MY will was MORE important than following that of the Father through His Son. And what you would call 'agressive' I would offer in description as AUTHORITIVE. But I can SEE that you would have an EVEN BIGGER problem with that. So let us stick with YOUR accusation instead; agressive, for I have NO problem 'standing up' in defense of TRUTH verses the 'desires' of this world.

FYI, I am an emergency room nurse and not easily intimidated by agressive behavior.
Click to expand...

If you THINK that i have offered what I have offered to intimidate, you ARE truly confused. What I have offered to both YOU and others that may read these words is UNDERSTANDING. That you are desirous of 'something else' doesn't AFFECT my offering in the least.

Barb, I LOVE you. If I didn't, I would be AGREEING with you.

Forgive me if you percieve that my words are an 'attack AGAINST YOU' for they are NOT, they are an attack against YOUR WORDS. I don't even KNOW you, but your words are CLEAR.

Do I propose that we LINCH those that CHOOSE to have abortions? Absolutely NOT. Do I propose that we OUTLAW abortion? ABSOLUTELY NOT. For I am well aware that it behoves us LITTLE to make physical criminals out of 'mothers' that do NOT wish to BE or the doctors that wish to offer them their WILL. But also understand THIS; what I offer here is NOT 'my WILL'.

I not only BELIEVE, but KNOW that ALL that we DO, WILL one day be judged. And for this very REASON I would offer TRUTH to my brothers and sisters and by all means NOT lead them in ANY direction that I KNOW could be contradictory to THEIR EDIFICATION and that of Our LORD'S.

Barb,

Humor me. Just for MY curiosity, what denomination do you practice....? This is NOT a 'barb', (pardon the pun), it is an HONEST question that I truly desire an honest answer to. For IF I am to attempt an understanding, REGARDLESS of differing OPINION, of 'who' I discuss such issues with, WHAT one professes to follow is pertinent for ME to be ABLE to discuss such issues.

For example: If you proclaim to BE an atheist, then I would understand your replies COMPLETELY. But if you professed to BE a Baptist, then I would KNOW that you are going AGAINST that which the statement of FAITH exists for those that profess such a 'belief'.

And I do NOT hold ANY denomination or lack thereof AGAINST AnYONE. For there are many that have simply NOT come to the TRUTH yet for WHATEVER reason. Their OWN, of course, but NOT that which has been UNIVERSALLY offered through scripture and Spirit.

It's ONLY fair that I offer YOU that I am NOT a Catholic, NOR, in my opinon, a Protestant. I am simply a believer in God, Our Father, and Christ, His Son, OUR Savior. And that we HAVE the Spirit to GUIDE us in UNDERSTANING. i don't EVEN like the title of Christian for I don't REALLY believe that I KNOW what it MEANS.

But what do YOU follow?

Blessings

MEC
Click to expand...

I shall not reply specifically to the badgering and attempts to personalize the argument by this individual above. The individual speaks only for himself and merely offers up his uninformed and agressive opinion. He most definitely does not speak for God and does not represent God. His above remarks do not violate the rules of this site except in spirit. This sort of cowardly bullying does not merit a reply. If the individual will apologize for his reprhehensible behavior here and ask questions respectfully then I will consider replying.
 
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