"Against us"?

[wavy]

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Is this a reference to the law? How so? What are your proofs?

Thanx.

 

[John the Baptist]

Here is 'one' of my studies on the subject that I had posted here a time ago :wink: ---John

Are you telling me that Paul is talking about Gods 10 Commandments being a curse??
If so, you best check out Galatians 2:11-13 to see what 'the subject' being addressed was about? 'of the circumcism'! Then 16-18 was still pointing to this same topic!

And if that is not clear, read verse 11 for where Paul called Peter down? The reference is seen in Acts 5:1-2 & has absolutely NOTHING to do with Gods Royal Law or ten commandments written in stone!

Notice the verse:
"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said,] Except ye 'be circumcised' after the MANNER OF MOSES, [YE CANNOT BE SAVED]." Can one even suggest that, that was found in the 10 Commandments of God???

But not only was this the Subject, but verse 5 also includes 'other's than just Peter' as well, and take notice that it C-L-E-A-R-L-Y
states in this 'inspired' verse.. COMMAND them to keep 'THE LAW OF Moses'!
"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them [AND] to command them to keep the [Law of Moses]."

It goes on to say that the apostles and the elders came together to consider this matter! What matter was that? READ IT AGAIN until you get it right! (no offence meant!) But you, my friends seem to be just as dense as they? You remind me of Peter's Vision of Acts 10, with the reams & reams of PhD stuff penned! And it seems that most of these still come out with tainted understanding.

Now: What were the Laws of Moses? Paul stated that:

'But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are [found sinners], is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For [if I build the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor].'
[This verse] tells of the Universal Covenant 10 commandment law. For where 'NO LAW IS, THERE IS NO TRANSGRESSION. (Romans 4:15) How could Paul say we could be 'found sinners' if there were [now], no law?

OK: Back in Deut. 31 were see Moses with a LAW contained in a book. Called the [Book of the Law!] We also see it placed in the side of the Ark of God! Not inside of the Ark of God, where His 10 Commandments Royal Universal Covenant was & IS LOCATED!!

It was the law of Moses that was nailed to the Cross! [ALL of the CEREMONIAL LAWS] that pointed to Christ's death on the Cross. These were all added because of sin. Galatians 3:19. What were these law?? God does not leave us ignorant if we will search as He commanded. (2 Tim. 3:16-*Matt. 4:4-Matt. 28:20)

Paul also includes Col. 2:9-20 & Eph. 2:12-15 with these Laws of 'ordinances' and 'holy day' and 'the new moons, and the Sabbath day's'! These 'holy days' are the Sabbath of Moses law. NEVER ARE THEY THE 4TH COMMANDMENT OF THE TEN!!

Notice Deut 30:10 for the [plural] of commandment's'! "If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep [his commandments] and His statues which are written [in THIS BOOK of the law, ..." (both the statues & these commandments are written in the BOOK OF THE LAW)

Again take note in Deut. 31:9 & verses 24-26. And note verse 26 closes with .. "Take [this book of the law] and [put it in the 'side of the Ark'] of the covenant of the Lord (notice these Words, & the Col. 2:14's Words of 'Against us') your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee".

And Paul's choice of Words.. Sabbath day's' plural, feast day's' plural, holy day's' plural? We even see in Acts 12:1-5 that Herod had James killed & Peter was locked up, and it was the Jews of old Israel that were keeping [this Feast Day] that you all keep today, you call it EASTER! (verse 3-4 ibid..) And you say that you are.. 'cursed with a curse'. Gal. 1:6-9!

You can understand Paul if you become the spiritual Jew of Rom. 2:28-38! Born Again.
Notice again the Law of Moses!! 2 Chron.. 8:13
"Even after a certain rate [every day], offering according to the [*commandments of Moses], on [the Sabbath's], and on [the new moon's'], and on the [solemn feast's'], (Easter, huh?) three times in the year, even the [feast of unleavened bread] and the [feast of week's'] and the feasts of [tabernacle's']."

These laws ALL pointed to the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin's of the world. When the Vail rent from top to bottom by an unseen hand, these laws of Moses were FINISHED, (Gal. 3:19) and the way was made into the Most Holy Place itself! Here is where the Ark of God was seen that had His 'TESTIMONY inside of His Ark! See Rev. 11:19.NOW: Bottom line! Notice real good.

"And hallow my Sabbaths; and they shall be a SIGN between [Me and you], that ye [may know that I am the Lord your God]. Notwithstanding the children rebelled [against me: they walked not in my 'STATUES' ... WHEREFORE I GAVE THEM [ALSO] STATUES THAT WERE NOT GOOD, AND JUDGEMENTS WHEREBY THEY SHOULD *NOT LIVE.." Eze. 20:verse 20 & verse 25.
What did that say?? Read it AGAIN!

Just realize that 'just perhaps' you think that you understand Paul? (smile!)

 

[wavy]

Your whole argument is centered on whether or not the ten commandments are a universal standard and that it is a separate law from the law of Moses.

The premise is false. I believe you have committed and anachronistic fallacy (no offense).

 

[Solo]

1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:1-11

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:1-14

21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. Galatians 4:21-31

 

[John the Baptist]

Your whole argument is centered on whether or not the ten commandments are a universal standard and that it is a separate law from the law of Moses.

The premise is false. I believe you have committed and anachronistic fallacy (no offense).

******
All need to forget the person posting the WORD OF GOD, and prove [their] thinking by the Word of God alone. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 & Matthew 4:4 are the first steps. In Psalms 77:13 God tell's the UNIVERSE what the Godheads [WAY] is! It is all there for our understanding, from beyond the outer court of the Gentil world, to the inside of the court for the ones that God wanted to use for the saving of the outer court Gentile ones. Even to the Lamb offering's first requirement of God in FAITH for Eternal life! (Hebrews 11:13) And check Cain in Genesis 4:7.

Were they OSAS? Surely one could see by this Truth that there was much more required, washing at the 'Laver' that they die not! (stated twice for warning!) And still requirements were foreseen after this! And even the offering at the alter of entrance told us that the sinner will become ASHES! (Malachi 4:3 K.J.)

Anyhow all of these laws were for this side of the cross telling us how it would be done on the other side of the cross. The Vail rent at Christ death, remember? The way was made into the Most Holy Place! And what was inside there to be seen? It is all there in this study! And you speak of the Eternal Covenant of God with dis-dain??? See Revelation 11:19! And Hebrews 13:20!! And Revelation 22:8-9! Where on earth do angels ever see any thing such as this except in the Godheads Eternal Covenant??

John who wrote & wrote & wrote even the Revelation.. TELLS US WHAT SIN IS! 1 John 3:4 (K.J.) "Whosoever committeth sin, trangresseth also [the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANGRESSION OF THE LAW]"!!

It does not take a rocket scientist to read where satan first sinned in heaven & where he was one of the covering cherub's who stood above the Ark of the Godhead, which has the Mercy Seat over the Ark where the ETERNAL COVENANT were enclosed. And John was INSPIRED to pen that for any to sin, there was THE ETERNAL COVENANT!

And NO! Moses stuff were not inside this Ark!!

---John