Alter Girl??

[WIP]

I'm curious about something. Yesterday, I was watching part of a Catholic Mass on television and to my surprise the server was a girl or altar girl. When I was young and serving as an altar boy in our Catholic Mass, it would have been unheard of to even consider a girl for that role. When did this change and on what grounds?

Same is true for women reading the Old Testament or Epistle readings from the New Testament. This too was not allowed.

 

[jasonc]

I'm curious about something. Yesterday, I was watching part of a Catholic Mass on television and to my surprise the server was a girl or altar girl. When I was young and serving as an altar boy in our Catholic Mass, it would have been unheard of to even consider a girl for that role. When did this change and on what grounds?

Same is true for women reading the Old Testament or Epistle readings from the New Testament. This too was not allowed.

In my reformed church .only men lead the Bible reading and devotion . Not sure the argument as it's the elders and that's probably why .yet woman do sing.

 

[WIP]

I see I misspelled Altar in my title. My apologies.

 

[Niblo]

I see I misspelled Altar in my title. My apologies.

Beat yourself with holly branches

 

[Mungo]

I'm curious about something. Yesterday, I was watching part of a Catholic Mass on television and to my surprise the server was a girl or altar girl. When I was young and serving as an altar boy in our Catholic Mass, it would have been unheard of to even consider a girl for that role. When did this change and on what grounds?

Same is true for women reading the Old Testament or Epistle readings from the New Testament. This too was not allowed.

There is a good article on this here:

Are Female Altar Servers Permitted?

Jesus Christ gave his Catholic Church the power to b...

www.catholic.com

 

[WIP]

There is a good article on this here:

Are Female Altar Servers Permitted?

Jesus Christ gave his Catholic Church the power to b...

www.catholic.com

From the reference, maybe I'm not getting it but I fail to see what changed. In other words, did the Catholic church suddenly decide or realize they (the church leadership) had it all wrong for the previous 2,000 or so years?

 

[Mungo]

From the reference, maybe I'm not getting it but I fail to see what changed. In other words, did the Catholic church suddenly decide or realize they (the church leadership) had it all wrong for the previous 2,000 or so years?

Got what wrong?
Restricting altar serves to males is a discipline not a doctrine. Disciplines can change as times change

I'm not very knowledgeable about this but here are some personal thoughts from bit of research..

In the Church there are three major clerical orders - bishop, priest, deacon. These are biblical.

s the article notes "Jesus Christ gave his Catholic Church the power to bind and loose (Matt. 16:18-19; 18:15-18), which includes liturgical disciplinary matters such as permitting or not permitting female altar servers."

In early time there were four 'minor' orders introduced - porter, lector, exorcist, and acolyte (though I hadn't heard about porter until I researched this). They were seen as steps on the way to the priesthood and therefore, since only men could be priests they were not appropriate for women. These four minor order were all mentioned in a letter by Pope Cornelius to Fabian of Antioch in 252.

"The office of altar server was created around a thousand years ago so there would be a group of people who could stand in for acolytes when none were available. Today that is the case in most parishes, and therefore the position of altar server has come to predominate at most Masses."

Is there a distinction between acolytes and altar servers? If so, please explain.

There is a distinction between the two, and the offi...

www.catholic.com

I assume that since only men could be acolytes, only men could stand in for them when one was not available, although alter server was not an ordained ministry like the acolyte.

Moreover most offices in society were only open to men. But times change and as society has opened up to women taking up offices so the Church has opened up to women taking up a prominent role in the Church and in it's liturgy.

 

[Niblo]

Got what wrong?
Restricting altar serves to males is a discipline not a doctrine. Disciplines can change as times change

I'm not very knowledgeable about this but here are some personal thoughts from bit of research..

In the Church there are three major clerical orders - bishop, priest, deacon. These are biblical.

s the article notes "Jesus Christ gave his Catholic Church the power to bind and loose (Matt. 16:18-19; 18:15-18), which includes liturgical disciplinary matters such as permitting or not permitting female altar servers."

In early time there were four 'minor' orders introduced - porter, lector, exorcist, and acolyte (though I hadn't heard about porter until I researched this). They were seen as steps on the way to the priesthood and therefore, since only men could be priests they were not appropriate for women. These four minor order were all mentioned in a letter by Pope Cornelius to Fabian of Antioch in 252.

"The office of altar server was created around a thousand years ago so there would be a group of people who could stand in for acolytes when none were available. Today that is the case in most parishes, and therefore the position of altar server has come to predominate at most Masses."

Is there a distinction between acolytes and altar servers? If so, please explain.

There is a distinction between the two, and the offi...

www.catholic.com

I assume that since only men could be acolytes, only men could stand in for them when one was not available, although alter server was not an ordained ministry like the acolyte.

Moreover most offices in society were only open to men. But times change and as society has opened up to women taking up offices so the Church has opened up to women taking up a prominent role in the Church and in it's liturgy.

This, of course, is correct. It is especially good that you distinguish between doctrine and discipline. The latter is, indeed, subject to change.

 

[WIP]

Got what wrong?
Restricting altar serves to males is a discipline not a doctrine. Disciplines can change as times change

I'm not very knowledgeable about this but here are some personal thoughts from bit of research..

In the Church there are three major clerical orders - bishop, priest, deacon. These are biblical.

s the article notes "Jesus Christ gave his Catholic Church the power to bind and loose (Matt. 16:18-19; 18:15-18), which includes liturgical disciplinary matters such as permitting or not permitting female altar servers."

In early time there were four 'minor' orders introduced - porter, lector, exorcist, and acolyte (though I hadn't heard about porter until I researched this). They were seen as steps on the way to the priesthood and therefore, since only men could be priests they were not appropriate for women. These four minor order were all mentioned in a letter by Pope Cornelius to Fabian of Antioch in 252.

"The office of altar server was created around a thousand years ago so there would be a group of people who could stand in for acolytes when none were available. Today that is the case in most parishes, and therefore the position of altar server has come to predominate at most Masses."

Is there a distinction between acolytes and altar servers? If so, please explain.

There is a distinction between the two, and the offi...

www.catholic.com

I assume that since only men could be acolytes, only men could stand in for them when one was not available, although alter server was not an ordained ministry like the acolyte.

Moreover most offices in society were only open to men. But times change and as society has opened up to women taking up offices so the Church has opened up to women taking up a prominent role in the Church and in it's liturgy.

So you're saying that the disallowing of women to serve in liturgical roles was not Biblical? Then, is it also not Biblical that men serve as Priests?

 

[Mungo]

So you're saying that the disallowing of women to serve in liturgical roles was not Biblical? Then, is it also not Biblical that men serve as Priests?

No, I'm saying that disallowing women to serve in some liturgical roles is Biblical, i.e. those defined in the Bible (bishop priest and deacon). But the Church created other liturgical roles which it can allow women to serve in since it was the Church that created them.

Or put it another way, there are some liturgical roles that only a priest (and therefore a bishop) can perform (i.e forgiveness of sin), and therefore are reserved for men.

 

[WIP]

No, I'm saying that disallowing women to serve in some liturgical roles is Biblical, i.e. those defined in the Bible (bishop priest and deacon). But the Church created other liturgical roles which it can allow women to serve in since it was the Church that created them.

Or put it another way, there are some liturgical roles that only a priest (and therefore a bishop) can perform (i.e forgiveness of sin), and therefore are reserved for men.

I see.