[_ Old Earth _] Alternate Theory of Intelligent Design

[Chupacabra]

http://www.venganza.org/index.htm

Though I used to believe in evolution, this site has changed my mind. Now I'm officially a Pastafarian. All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

 

[Jimbob]

I think most people here have read that site already.

It's funny, though.

 

[cubedbee]

Archeological evidence: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4335160.stm

 

[MrVersatile48]

This Wed story is timely..

Archeological evidence: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4335160.stm

For any who didn't click, here's the fascinating opening:-

OOPS: paste didn't work, but it said @ the world's oldest noodles being formed in a catastrophic flood @ 4000 years ago

How many readers recall the recent furore @ "The Grand Canyon: A Creationist Viewpoint"?

It was written by 23 scientists of various disciplines, inc hydrologists & geologists, who point out that the order of Earth;s strata - not just in the Grand Canyon, but worldwide - is entirely consistent with the global flood of Genesis 6 & its subsiding

Not only is that why we see strata going from the heaviest rock at the bottom to the lightest soils on top, but the very formation & reservation of fossils rquired the cataclysmic pressure of a global flood

Dr Henry Morris made the same points, in great detail, in his classic book, "Noah's Ark & The Genesis Flood"

As did, "The Revised & Expanded Answers Book", by Drs Ken Ham, Jonathan Sarfati, Carl Wieland, Don Batten, Russell Humphreys, Len Morris & others - chapter 10, pages 149/159 - puiblished by http://www.AnswersInGenesis.org - see homepage menu of articles & links too

See the even more comprehensive menu of articles, boks, etc @ http://www.creationism.org

The site specifically for Intelligent Design is http://www.discovery.org/csc - it als has a good menu f features, etc

All 3 sites have FAQs

Just time to start a thread @ ToE frauds needing the Boot..

Enjoy!

Ian

 

[MrVersatile48]

This Wed story is timely..

Archeological evidence: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4335160.stm

For any who didn't click, here's the fascinating opening:-

OOPS: paste didn't work, but it said @ the world's oldest noodles being formed in a catastrophic flood @ 4000 years ago

How many readers recall the recent furore @ "The Grand Canyon: A Creationist Viewpoint"?

It was written by 23 scientists of various disciplines, inc hydrologists & geologists, who point out that the order of Earth;s strata - not just in the Grand Canyon, but worldwide - is entirely consistent with the global flood of Genesis 6 & its subsiding

Not only is that why we see strata going from the heaviest rock at the bottom to the lightest soils on top, but the very formation & reservation of fossils rquired the cataclysmic pressure of a global flood

Dr Henry Morris made the same points, in great detail, in his classic book, "Noah's Ark & The Genesis Flood"

As did, "The Revised & Expanded Answers Book", by Drs Ken Ham, Jonathan Sarfati, Carl Wieland, Don Batten, Russell Humphreys, Len Morris & others - chapter 10, pages 149/159 - puiblished by http://www.AnswersInGenesis.org - see homepage menu of articles & links too

See the even more comprehensive menu of articles, books, etc @ http://www.creationism.org

The site specifically for Intelligent Design is http://www.discovery.org/csc - it als has a good menu f features, etc

All 3 sites have FAQs

Just time to start a thread @ ToE frauds needing the Boot..

Enjoy!

Ian

 

[ThinkerMan]

23 whole scientists! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/sarcasm]

Here are over 600 scientist who disagree. They are all named Steve.

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articl ... 6_2003.asp

What were the names of those 23?

 

[MrVersatile48]

Research here..

http://www.christianbooks.com

As well as those 23 highly qualified scientists who contributed to that Grand Canyon book, there are hundreds of MSc/PhD-level scientists, from micro-biology to astronomy, who see so much clear evidence of Intelligent Design that they reject the atheistic brainwashing of their education & worship the Almighty Creator

Appropriate place to recommend the helpful menu @ http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp

As promised, I've brought in their "Revised & Expanded Answers Book" by Drs Ken Ham, Jonathan Sarfati, Carl Wieland, Werner Gitt, John Baumgardner, Russell Humphreys, Len Morris, David Catchpoole & others

On the way here, I read their chapters on Carbon/Radiometric Dating & How We Can See Distant Stars In A Young Universe - (pages 75 & 95)

Here's an amazing menu of online evidence for a young Earth & universe:-:-
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/young.asp



Do hit their website - & the comprehensive 1 @ http://www.creationism.org

& a 2nd menu of articles there - http://www.creationism.org/articles/index.htm


& details of 21 books:- http://www.creationism.org/books/index.htm


& the ID one @ http://www.discovery.org/csc

& more books here:-
http://www.discovery.org/csc/essentialReadings.php

Here's their "Top Questions" link:-
http://www.discovery.org/csc/topQuestions.php

i]This 1 may be especially helpful:-[/i]
http://www.discovery.org/csc/topQuestio ... nEvolution

& this 1:-
http://www.discovery.org/csc/topQuestio ... gentDesign

Must go

God bless!

Ian

 

[Barbarian]

How many of those "hundreds" of qualified scientists are PhD biologists named "Steve?"

Science has over 600 of them. How many does creationism have?

Oh, and I quit trusting Answers in Genesis at all, after I discovered that they had doctored the statements of two astronomers to make it appear that they believed something they did not.

Another case of "lying for God", I suppose.

 

[MrVersatile48]

U R not Greek R U??

Unbiased readers can check the menus on all the sites I gave..

& budding Luke Skywalkers out there can use this wintry half term week to help turn more Anakins from Vadering in the Darth dark side...

..of the Evil Empire ruthlessly run by the 1 Jesus called, "the father of lies..the great deceiver..the destroyer" - which last is the meaning of both Apollyon & Abaddon in the Revelation (of Jesus Christ) - aka the Apocalypse (which means unveiling)...

& let the Light of the World shine thru us into their darkened souls & minds (Romans 1:18/32)

"Lord of lords & king of kings: Your Word assures us that You are FAR above all other & we claim the power of prayer to open the eyes of the spiritually blind, thru the "weapons of our warfare, which are not carnal, but mighty to pull down the strongholds of the enemy of souls"

Now to "boot more ToE fraud" thread...

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18585

 

[reznwerks]

Re: U R not Greek R U??

& let the Light of the World shine thru us into their darkened souls & minds (Romans 1:18/32)


http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18585

[/b][/i]

The bible is not a textbook.

 

[Solo]

Re: U R not Greek R U??

& let the Light of the World shine thru us into their darkened souls & minds (Romans 1:18/32)


http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18585

[/b][/i]

The bible is not a textbook.

It is the Word of God the Creator.................Believe it or not. I will trust the Bible over any textbook any time. How about you?

 

[Barbarian]

Solo, on what authority do you take the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God?

On what subjects do you think it is inerrant?

 

[Solo]

Solo, on what authority do you take the Bible to be the inerrant Word of God?

On what subjects do you think it is inerrant?

God's Word is the authority, and his Word is understood by those that are born of the Spirit of God. Jesus' sheep hear his voice, and Jesus knows them.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. John 10:25-30

God's Word is inerrant on all subjects and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto ALL good works.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Many would believe a man's word or doctrine before they believe God's Word. I have never understood this, as God's Word was trustworthy to me, even when I was an unbeliever.


39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? John 5:39-47


20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:20-21

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Matthew 22:29

13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Mark 7:13

5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:12-16

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 2 Corinthians 4:3-7

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:14-16

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. Matthew 24:35

 

[Barbarian]

God's Word is the authority, and his Word is understood by those that are born of the Spirit of God. Jesus' sheep hear his voice, and Jesus knows them.

So your argument is "It's God's inerrent word, because it says it is?" Do you have anything but a circular argument?

God's Word is inerrant on all subjects and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto ALL good works.

I know you believe it to be. But where does it say it's inerrant?

Many would believe a man's word or doctrine before they believe God's Word.

Inerrancy is man's doctrine. It is not in Scripture.

You should me some verses, but none of them said Scripture is inerrant. Do you have even one verse that says this?

 

[Solo]

God's Word is the authority, and his Word is understood by those that are born of the Spirit of God. Jesus' sheep hear his voice, and Jesus knows them.

So your argument is "It's God's inerrent word, because it says it is?" Do you have anything but a circular argument?

[quote:34f0c]God's Word is inerrant on all subjects and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto ALL good works.

I know you believe it to be. But where does it say it's inerrant?

Many would believe a man's word or doctrine before they believe God's Word.

Inerrancy is man's doctrine. It is not in Scripture.

You should me some verses, but none of them said Scripture is inerrant. Do you have even one verse that says this?[/quote:34f0c]

You are wrong again. The inerrancy of God's Word is God's doctrine, not man's. It is in scripture. The Word of God is either the truth and inerrant, or a lie. For those that can't accept the Word of God being inerrant and true, they must invent a reason for themselves to live in darkness apart from what the Word of God says.

God can not lie, nor will he lie. The father of the children of the devil is the father of lies. Is that true or false, according to God's word?


God is not a man, that he should lie; Numbers 23:19

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:2

That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Hebrews 6:18

The Word of God is truth; therefore it is inerrant.


For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth. Psalm 33:4

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:14

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. John 17:17-19

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. 1 Thessalonians 2:13

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 1 Timothy 2:15

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
James 1:18

 

[Barbarian]

You are wrong again. The inerrancy of God's Word is God's doctrine, not man's. It is in scripture.

First, as you demonstrated, it's not in Scripture. Second, you haven't yet shown that Scripture is God's Word. You merely asserted that Scripture say it is. But you simply gave us a circular argument.

"Scripture is inerrant, because it says it is."

"But how do you know that it's right?"

"It says it's right, and it's inerrent."

The Word of God is either the truth and inerrant, or a lie.

Something in Scripture could be a mistranslation. Or a mistake. Or it could be a parable or allegory. You've been misled.

For those that can't accept the Word of God being inerrant and true, they must invent a reason for themselves to live in darkness apart from what the Word of God says.

First, you have to show that it is inerrant. So far, you've been unable to even show that it says so. And even if you did, you're still trying to use circular reasoning.

The Word of God is truth; therefore it is inerrant.

If the Bible is the inerrant word of God, why can't you show any reason to believe that it is? Even if we ignore the problem of circularity, you can't even show that the Bible itself claims to be inerrant.

 

[Solo]

You have made your position clear. Evolutionists can write whatever they observe and it is truth, but God must be questioned as to what he is able to pass on throughout the generations as truth.

It is quaint how unbelief can make fickle the ideas of men. Good luck, you need not say anymore. Your position and posts have declared your unbelief. Thanks for clearing up the questions that I had.

 

[Barbarian]

You have made your position clear.

Nope. So far, I'm asking questions. I haven't told you what I think about it, yet.

Evolutionists can write whatever they observe and it is truth,

Sorry, science doesn't work that way. Evidence is just provisional on further evidence.

but God must be questioned as to what he is able to pass on throughout the generations as truth.

You aren't God. I'm questioning you why you assume Scripture is inerrant. You demonstrated that you can't show that it even says it is, but you continue your circular argument that it's inerrant because it says it is.

Surely, you must understand why other Christians would find this unconvincing.

It is quaint how unbelief can make fickle the ideas of men. Good luck, you need not say anymore. Your position and posts have declared your unbelief.

I worship God, not the Bible. The Bible is His Word, but we know it is not inerrant. It was compiled by men, who relied on scholarship and tradition, and inspiration. But they can be wrong, and have been shown to have been wrong in a good number of places. That's why we have modern translations, in which many of the errors were corrected.

Worship God alone.

 

[Solo]

You have made your position clear.

Nope. So far, I'm asking questions. I haven't told you what I think about it, yet.

[quote:bf3a1]Evolutionists can write whatever they observe and it is truth,

Sorry, science doesn't work that way. Evidence is just provisional on further evidence.

but God must be questioned as to what he is able to pass on throughout the generations as truth.

You aren't God. I'm questioning you why you assume Scripture is inerrant. You demonstrated that you can't show that it even says it is, but you continue your circular argument that it's inerrant because it says it is.

Surely, you must understand why other Christians would find this unconvincing.

It is quaint how unbelief can make fickle the ideas of men. Good luck, you need not say anymore. Your position and posts have declared your unbelief.

I worship God, not the Bible. The Bible is His Word, but we know it is not inerrant. It was compiled by men, who relied on scholarship and tradition, and inspiration. But they can be wrong, and have been shown to have been wrong in a good number of places. That's why we have modern translations, in which many of the errors were corrected.

Worship God alone.[/quote:bf3a1]
When you become saved and intent on worshipping God, you and I can worship as brothers in Christ Jesus. Until then your understanding of scripture is suspect and does not align with the Holy Spirit's inspired word. The Holy Spirit has the only true interpretation of scripture. I would suggest that you come to believe so that He can indwell you and lead you to all truth. Until then all of your God talk is just words. Many lost and false prophets claim a belief in God, but they deny the power of God. That my friend is your state. Until you submit to God's authority, you are lost.

 

[Barbarian]

Solo, I can see you are upset. But disparaging the faith of other Christians will only make things worse for you. You have to accept that God is God, and you are not.

Your anathemae are simply expressions of frustration and anger. They have no binding power on God, any more than your additions to scripture require God to accept them.

Let God be God, and Solo be Solo. And accept His creation, however He chooses to handle it.

And then you will be troubled no more.