Am I way off or what???

[j_rthom]

I just read JamesLovesGod post on Studying the bible too deeply, and I agree that you can. I grew up in a fundamental Christian church and school, very conservative, to the point if you got caught watching tv you could get kicked out. I believe Fundamentalists limit themselves as Christians. They dig so deep into the Bible and come up with a hundred different meanings and rules that it puts them into their own little box. As Christians we are here to evangelize, and how can we do that in our own little shell of a church congregation. You say that doesn't happen?? I remember single mother's being told they could not send their kids to our Christian school because they were born out of wedlock, or had been divorced. People wanting to serve in a ministry being told no because their spouse had walked out on them years ago. I've seen churches whose new believer classes are just a brainwash our rules into you session. They don't want you going into the world and they don't want the world coming in. Their only idea of missions is sending people to some far off jungle all the while ignoring their own backyard. They look down their nose at " Progressive Christian Churches" because they are playing "The Devil's music" and doing the Devil's work. Well while they struggle with their congregation of 40-50 people, the progressive churches are growing into 2 -3 week with 1000 people at each of them. They have outreach ministries throughout their cities serving God at home as well as abroad. The difference is, they don't bombard you with rules and regulations of being a "Good Christian". instead they show you love, and guide you to a deep personal relationship with God. They install the basic rules of the Bible, but don't make up what isn't there. I completely respect anyone's personal relationship with God, and whichever path they want to walk. But Everyone is making this too hard. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any need for deep theological study to grasp the Bible. Its pretty cut and dry. If we live our lives seeking God's purpose for us, and listening to what he tells us through prayer and reading his word. He will lead us in the right direction. We wouldn't need a panel of Elder's to tell us what is right or wrong because we'd be convicted on our own. I may be offending a ton of people here and I'm sorry if I do. I am just so frustrated as I see churches dwindling all over, and liberal society taking over while Christians are busy disputing what the Bible really means and who is more Christian than the other. We have the power behind us to win the world over, but we can't get past ourselves to do it. I'd love any insight anyone has.

 

[Vic C.]

I believe Fundamentalists limit themselves as Christians. They dig so deep into the Bible and come up with a hundred different meanings and rules that it puts them into their own little box.

That's not Fundamentalism, that's legalism. :o

BTW, welcome to the Forums. :smt006

 

[j_rthom]

Thanks

I wasn't sure exactly what to call it? I'm not saying "Progressive churches get it right all the time because you have to be careful not to get so liberal that you become the world and lose all of your example and credibility. I just think there are certain Christians that make it way to difficult to understand or want to have a relationship with God. I completely respect that they are convicted by their faith enough to live like that, but they are not evangelizing which is why we are here.

 

[Vic C.]

Ahh, I wasn't correcting you... though, what you were saying sure did sound a little like legalism to me. 8-)

 

[Soma-Sight]

I just read JamesLovesGod post on Studying the bible too deeply, and I agree that you can. I grew up in a fundamental Christian church and school, very conservative, to the point if you got caught watching tv you could get kicked out. I believe Fundamentalists limit themselves as Christians. They dig so deep into the Bible and come up with a hundred different meanings and rules that it puts them into their own little box. As Christians we are here to evangelize, and how can we do that in our own little shell of a church congregation. You say that doesn't happen?? I remember single mother's being told they could not send their kids to our Christian school because they were born out of wedlock, or had been divorced. People wanting to serve in a ministry being told no because their spouse had walked out on them years ago. I've seen churches whose new believer classes are just a brainwash our rules into you session. They don't want you going into the world and they don't want the world coming in. Their only idea of missions is sending people to some far off jungle all the while ignoring their own backyard. They look down their nose at " Progressive Christian Churches" because they are playing "The Devil's music" and doing the Devil's work. Well while they struggle with their congregation of 40-50 people, the progressive churches are growing into 2 -3 week with 1000 people at each of them. They have outreach ministries throughout their cities serving God at home as well as abroad. The difference is, they don't bombard you with rules and regulations of being a "Good Christian". instead they show you love, and guide you to a deep personal relationship with God. They install the basic rules of the Bible, but don't make up what isn't there. I completely respect anyone's personal relationship with God, and whichever path they want to walk. But Everyone is making this too hard. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any need for deep theological study to grasp the Bible. Its pretty cut and dry. If we live our lives seeking God's purpose for us, and listening to what he tells us through prayer and reading his word. He will lead us in the right direction. We wouldn't need a panel of Elder's to tell us what is right or wrong because we'd be convicted on our own. I may be offending a ton of people here and I'm sorry if I do. I am just so frustrated as I see churches dwindling all over, and liberal society taking over while Christians are busy disputing what the Bible really means and who is more Christian than the other. We have the power behind us to win the world over, but we can't get past ourselves to do it. I'd love any insight anyone has.

THIS IS THE BEST POST I HAVE SEEN ON THE FORUMS IN 6 MONTHS!

Seriously man you hit the nail on the head here!

I agree with this post wholeheartedly and that doesnt happen very often!

It is VERY simple!

Love God and your neighbor with all your heart....

Dont screw your neighbor over by taking his wife and car and do the right thing! Pray, meditate, study scripture, philosophy on God, etc......

There is no need to "lock" yourself into any particualr Church group...

Be accepting of others beliefs while stressing what you feel is right in a responsible manner!

There is no need to "evangelize" through guilt, fear, depression and pride! Let people see the Love of Christ in your actions and they will know the Truth!

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Very good post indeed!!!

 

[Klee shay]

Loving the Lord is often a very hard thing to come to grips with for the mere mortal. :wink:

He gets through to us eventually. :D

 

[Petrushka]

Sounds to me like you have a pretty good handle on things j.

 

[stovebolts]

j_rthom

This is a good subject. However...

All parties have their downfalls and their strengths. Legalism, Fundimentalism, Passionism, and other schizms ism's...

We should all seek Christ. But it's not in our nature to do what Christ would have us do. We, as a race are selfish and prideful for starters and honestly, were all pretty messed up and need the help that Christ has to offer. To those who can't control themselves or need to be controlled, legalism holds value for it's the act that leads to their salvation from day to day. Granted, it's a pretty shallow salvation, but it can be [but not inclusive] salvation none the less.

Each 'thing' in our life can be used as a stepping stone to bring us one step closer to Christ. The problem occurs when we find 'truth' that helps us get through that day, and we box and limit that truth and that truth becomes dependant upon another truth, which in turn is dependant upon another truth. What we end up with, is a distorted view of Christ's truth where a doctrine actually will take on man's meaning... man's truth an not Christ's truth because His truth is not dependant upon another truth, rather, it simply is truth.

I know of a man that says if you sing accopella (sp, get used to it) then your sinning because your making the sound of a musical instument. He'd also say that if you let your kids go to the H.S. dance, then you are sinning because dancing is a sin. Now, we all know that dancing isn't a sin. But lusting in your heart for another woman that your not married to is. So it is that some would think that if you don't allow the situation... allow the temptation... then you won't fall into sin. Others distort this truth to say that dancing is the same as lusting therefore, your sinning. I say that we all lust and we all must fall into that trap at least once to truly find our salvation from it through Christ. You see, sin has it's place in this life. It's no accident that sin is here.

Things like lust and pride and selfishness is a part of our very nature. These are the things that we need salvation from right here on earth in this present age. Now, I'm not saying that we should seek lust, selfishness or pride. But to put up ridged distorted rules and regulations is really preventing some [emphasis on some, not all] people to find peace in Christ. I kind of look at it like when I let my kid make a mistake knowing what he needs to learn from himself and he's better off learning from his mistakes. I can't shelter him as it would really do him a dis service.

On the other side of the fence, look at Unitarian Universalism. There's a free for all... Believe in Budda? Your saved. Believe in Yen and Yang, your saved... Believe in God? Your saved. Believe in humanism, you guessed it... your saved... There's peopleism at it peak... and then you have psychology that seems to go unnoticed. It's yet another tool of satan that mixes truth with lies that feed our flesh.

But when we truly seek God's will... When we finally break down and let it all go and give it all to him... The very essence of who we are... when we stop trying to put God in a box, then you can't study His word deep enough and you can't get to legalistic with His laws, for they will truly be written in your heart and the peace that only comes through Christ, will manifests it's salvation in your life and your rewards will transfer from this life, to the next.

Now, I realize that this is a bit off the wall for some and by no means is it complete and it's probably not written in the best context as it was written in hast.

God Bless

 

[lovely]

I know that I will not be popular after this post, but I must say what is in my heart anyway.

I do not feel that we can study Scripture too deeply. How can we know Him too well? We must remember that reading, and loving, God's word is what we do when we are in love with Him. I love His law, and it does not bind me, but helps protect me. His law, as in Psalm 119, is loved by His children. It is also evidence of our love towards Him, see John 14:15. Our obedience to Him serves as an umbrella of protection. I desire to be set apart for His purpose, and completely given over to His will in all areas. I fail a great deal, but He is merciful, and faithful to forgive me if I only ask.

Many are accused of being legalistic for speaking truthful things they have learned in His Word. That is such a shame. Why can't we all be honest, even if we have differences, in sharing what God is teaching us? It we are truly listening to the things of God, we can all benefit from hearing one another, as long as what we are saying aligns with His Word. We are supposed to sharpen ourselves, are we not?

Our bond is in Christ, and He is the head of the body. However, the body is made up of different parts, and I do not understand why the part that wants to study earnestly, and obey Scripture is always peceived as the pharisee, or the prideful and judgemental part, lacking charity and love. Honestly, I have gotten use to such attacks by my brothers and sisters in Christ, those who emphisize we are free from the law, before they even care to know my heart. Sometimes they are the ones who do not hesitate to judge the brothers and sisters who find great joy, and rest, in their obedience to God, while understanding that it is only by His grace.

On the other hand, I will say that I have met some who are quite legalistic, and frankly do not have an accurate understanding of God's Word, or His grace, in many cases...and in other cases, it is seems to be true pride and arrogance that motivates them, but if they are speaking truth, I want to listen. I want to check my heart and make sure that God is not speaking a truth to me...even if the source is not being sincere in their love for me. I have also met some who live as they please with no thought of what God wants for them, and do it all in the name of grace, while not having a real understanding of the Word. This is not correct either.

We should think before we divide our brothers and sisters into two categories and leave them there. And though in some cases it may be accurate, it is not in many others. I desire to just look to the God's grace and mercy to teach me because I have not learned everything yet, and I certainly can not sum all of it up in a single post. I can not size a person up by a post, or even a few meetings. I am happy when I meet another believer, and I do not want to judge them unrighteously.

I want to humble myself before Him more than anything, and ask Him to grow all of us as a church, in the light of His Truth, and the nourishment of His love. It would be amazing if we were all desiring to do this in one mind and in one accord, wouldn't it? I pray that for us all. What a testimony for God we would be to this world.

Blessings.

 

[stovebolts]

Lovely,
I think your right on the mark. I also think that what you said is in direct alignment with scripture.

People,
It's not about being popular. It's about the relationship YOU have with the Savior. We are each on a journey and God has a plan and a road for each and everyone of us...

For me, I'm not always right and I often speak too close to my heart or I speak to quickly without enough though. We are all fallable...

enough said...

Jeff

 

[Vic C.]

...People,
It's not about being popular. It's about the relationship YOU have with the Savior. We are each on a journey and God has a plan and a road for each and everyone of us...

But, but, acording to peace4all, you are cool though. :

 

[stovebolts]

Vic,

I'm sure I'm a lot of things to a lot of people...

Are you making a general observation or do you actually have a point?