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Ammo for Christians in debates 3

KV-44-v1

No Denomination - Just Christian
Member
look up "Evidence for God" on google, and tell me how MANY results you got."

"Why are you avoiding the evidence? Why are you scared of accepting the Gospel?"

"There's 2 ad infinitum's i saw in evolution: 1. the common ancestor may have evolved from a thing that evolved from a thing... and so on. and another: how many transitional forms? what's between a monkey and a man? a monkeman. and whats between a monke&monkeman, and monkeman&human ? a monkemonkeyman and a monkehumanhuman, and so on. It's no better than the aliens creating aliens thing."

""other beliefs claim to have evidence, why else they believe?"" response: "Oh, so you ADMIT that there IS evidence after all? I'm glad you are humble and smart enough to realize this. It's a "sin" in the athiest "religion" to accept this FACT."

' Hitler believed in evolution. Like from monke to man. He was simply following the logical final outcome of evolution. If God was "fake", and there are 'high evolved human' and 'low evolved human', then why care about the 'low'?? Just because someone uses God's Name occasionally does NOT mean someone follows His commands. Athiests utter 'oh my G' like it's nothing in tvshows and IRL on a regular basis, sadly. The "Christian hitler" argument is one of the weakest arguments EVER. Also, see stalin and other dictators. They followed God-less ideologies, and lok at the rotten fruit those ideologies produced.'

New design argument: Life was obviously created by God. Computer code relies on metal circutry and life's code relies on chemical dna. If you cannot see the similarity, you are deluding yourself. If you keep BELIEEEVING that life is just a bunch of accidents, you are only fooling yourself and confirming Romans 1:20-24. Please accept Christianity as it is more logical, which i have just shown here.



Lazy athiesm: Athiesm really is a position of ignorance. It's also a position of intellectual laziness!! They are usually like 'oh, i don't have to prove my claim, you have to prove yours' as if lack of evidence alone is enough to reject the Gospel Truth which is so much better than worthless athiesm!! So they can't attack, only intellectually retreat & be lazy, so YOU have to do all the thinking YOURSELF. Little or no thought on the noGodist's part! And a youtube commenter called 'logical athiest' is parroting the UNTRUTH that is 'aThiEsM iS tHe MoSt LogiCaL poSitItoN!1!'. The Bible and observation say otherwise, obviously!!



Athiests typically are angry and ragey, and have a 'look down on the thiests' pride attitude. If God was "fake", then WHY are they so angry and devoted to their athiesm? They write whole books, attack Christians verbally and physically, and blog against Christianity and thiesm. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who lacks belief in, say, 4 foot tall gummy worms that want to take over all the planets in our solar system, trying to tell anyone that 'there are no 4 ft tall gummy worms with an agenda', or writing books and blogging about their lack of belief or disbelief in 4ft tall gummy worms. God exists, if He "didn't" , athiests wouldn't be so hyped up about Him and trying to win over converts. Yes, converts. Oh, and you don't usually see space alien rejecters treat space alien believers anywhat similar to how athiests treat Christians. I don't know of ANY world leader who has done horrible things because of their belief or lack of or disbelief in ET space aliens. That's athiesm that produces the rotten fruit. But what is the point of their athiesm? They should know by now that if they were 'right', nobody will care and they'll fade away. But if they are wrong, they will meet eternal fire. THEY chose that destiny, even though God let them live. Why are they soooo proud as to waste their life on athiesm that does NOTHING to TRULY benefit them? Athiests are typically devoted to their athiesm, but yet they CLAIM that it's not a religion. Observation contradicts this CLAIM.





atheist's alleged reliance on empiricism and materialism as sole basis for knowledge and reality can be seen as self-undermining. But the philosophical principles of empiricism cannot be empirically verified themselves, creating a logical paradox.



Additionally, some have argued that atheism's rejection of objective moral truths is problematic, as it makes the atheist's own moral condemnations of things like cruelty or injustice incoherent - if there are no objective moral standards, then such judgments have no grounding.



Another potential selfrefuting element of atheism is the difficulty of accounting for the emergence of human consciousness, reason, and agency within a purely materialistic framework. The argument is that these uniquely human attributes seem to transcend the physical world in ways that challenge atheistic explanations.

They use their free will, that is enabled by the soul, to reject the fact of the soul's existence! Double self defeat!



Blind faith: Illogical Fathiests believe from faith that theres "lack" of evidence for God. They cant prove yet they believe.

Athiests uncaused 1st cause: physics, apparently.

they sometimes believe in an eternal dumb universe but not an Eternal Creator Who knows all and created the universe?? truly crazy and shows human drive for sin.

Human & chimp epigenetic markers very dissimilar. Use cell apoptosis and cell checkpoints to demolish evalooshun.

Athiests're like polythiests. creator gods: time, chance, physics. service god: themself. Naturalism IS a religion; it is an organized set of beliefs. Religions do not need to involve a supernatural to be a religion.

Can athiests define the phrase "evidence of/for God"?? If they can't that's like a kid saying 'there is no fish' when he doesnt know what a fish is.



"Sadly, belief in evolution can erode people’s God-given ability to appreciate beauty because they reject beauty for beauty’s sake. <comment note. If God was "fake", then WHY is it rejecting Him, of all ideological things, that erodes beauty appreciation? Hmmm, mabye it is because humans were MADE to have God in their lives! Evolution nor naturalism have ANY explanation, so far, of this phenomena. More bad fruit of athiesm/naturalism! Cast off chainthiesm, accept Freedom in Jesus! The Gospel is correct and beneficial.> Charles Darwin admitted that he had lost his natural, childlike appreciation for beauty. He said: “I have said that in one respect my mind has changed during the last twenty or thirty years. I have also almost lost my taste for pictures or music . . . . I retain some taste for fine scenery but it does not cause me the exquisite delight which it formerly did.”4

In contrast, belief in creation increases a person’s appreciation of beauty because that person knows beauty is the work of a loving Creator. This is what the hymnist George Wade Robinson said of beauty: “Heaven above is softer blue, Earth around is sweeter green; something lives in every hue Christless eyes have never seen: birds with gladder songs o’erflow, flow’rs with deeper beauties shine, since I know, as now I know, I am His, and He is mine.”" Source: ans. in Genesis .org

What even IS the point in trying to beat around the bush about beauty?? Why are you so scared to admit beauty in creation is from God?? If you insist on rejecting God in light of fact after fact, you are NOT following facts, but foolishly deluding yourself with NoGodism. Psalm 14:1 and Romans 1:20-24 are proven RIGHT, as usual.

“Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. It's merely that when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought. But if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? It's like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London. But if I can't trust my own thinking, of course I can't trust the arguments leading to Atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an Atheist, or anything else. Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought: so I can never use thought to disbelieve in God.” - C.S. Lewis. Athiesm the "most logical" position?? Well, this quote rips that claim apart!!

"no God demonstrated to exist!!" Response: What do you mean by demonstrated? Your thoughts haven't been demonstrated to exist, yet you believe they are real. Same with big bang. And why do you ASSUME that demonstration is the only way to prove something?
"It's a clear case of religion making good people do bad things."

Sounds like that is EXACTLY what the religion of secular humanism (aka self idolatry) & naturalism ("only the physical is real") are doing! Also, how you know what is good and bad if God's fake and you're just a monkey??

"Christian love is exactly why Missions like mercyships and international fellowship of Christians and Jews exist. But your opinion obviously trumps reality, & everything that disagrees with you is hate.

"I guess I should say all of scientific consensus. "

Is this all you have? That's called the appeal to authority fallacy.

"Reality is NOT a democracy in which we can vote on what's real and what's fake!"

"And you're very deluded if you think scientists make distinctions between how things work and how they originate."



Of course they don't these days, because they fallen prey to ASSUMING that the cosmos is all there is & that the universe & life MUST have a natural only explanation. THEN, they make conclusions BASED OFF THAT.
" Like, we know how mountains originate and it has basis in what we know about how tectonics works. These things are tied very often.""
 
Mountains are not the universe and life.
God created the earth and life in the first place. Mountains forming and tectonics are a PROCESS the SUPERNATURALLY-created earth NATURALLY undergoes.
Where do you think the laws of physics came from? Are they a big accident that merely happens to exist, or more logically, God-made?
What evidence (by YOUR standard) would you have for the 'big accident' choice? (i'm assuming youd choose #1.)
if you think scientists make distinctions between how things work and how they originate."

Well then they SHOULD.
It's ERRONEUOS to ASSUME that origins and mechanics are 1 and the same.

Youtube WORKS because of code. But that doesn't mean random bits of code cobbled themselves together over 'ills of years. HUMANS wrote the code.

Same with the code of life, DNA, it did NOT come from nonlife, it was CREATED BY GOD.

Athiattack: "God mean/bad/<whatever accusation here>"
Christian Defense: "If God was "imaginary" (He isn't), then so are all and any claims about Him are too. INCLUDING YOURS, athiests!! You guys try to teach that God is fake but also that He is "mean". You aren't the Arbiter of morality, so please don't act like you are. Also, what is the base of your morality? Your opinion or the Bible? Why don't you take morality as evidence for God? The amoral does not give rise to the moral. Under the naturalistic evolution tale, humans are just chemicals. How would mere chemicals be moral? Who defines "harm"? If humans are just things composed of elements, why don't we try to save welders from welding metal? They are "harming" the metal. See how solid Christian morality is, and how flimsy athiest morals are!! Morality points to God's existence and debunks naturalism."
Athiattack: "Men wrote the Bible!! It's fake!1!"
Christian Defense: By your logic, your claim is fake too. Everybody who told you anything lied to you IF you are using "written by man" to justify your disbelief in the Lord Jesus and the Truth of the Bible. Humans are able to write reliable things. Even more reliable when directed by the True God!
Athiattack: Equating the Bible with 'fairy tale'
Christian Defense: Fairy tales are told knowingly as fiction. They also do NOT teach about salvation or the Creator. They focus on the creatED. Whether they be created by God or made up by man. Why do you believe the Bible is a "fary tale"? Its accounts have been verified countless times, like by archeology.
Athiattack: Reducing God to a "sky dad/fairy". Awful strawman.
Christian Defense: What would God be doing in the sky? Heaven is not in the physical realm. God is much greater than a fairy. Virtually no Christian actually believes such a reductionistic and erroneous view of God.
Athiattack: equating the Bible with 'myth'
Christian Defense: Myths tend to have exaggerated accounts, and their claims are rarely, if ever, verified. But the Bible has no exaggerated accounts or nonexistent events. Biblical accounts and statements it makes are frequently verified, EVEN BY GOD-REJECTERS!! <see similar defense vs. those "fairytale" claims.>
Athiattack: Equate Creation with "magic".
Christian Defense: No, it is not magic. Is it magic when a coder makes videogame characters? No, and it would be dumb for the characters to claim that their creation was just "magic". Just because life and universe were created supernaturally does not mean "magic". That equating assumes that naturalism is true, which it isn't. What's magic is germs morphing into people via time and chance, and matter magically escaping a singularity.
Athiattack: "evidence confirms the Bible like movie confirm spiderman!11"
Christian Defense: Your argument falls flat. In fact, EVOLUTION would have you believe that things can evolve new features. so spiderman fiction should be real if the evolution fiction is! outside movies n comics, we have little evidence of spiderman. also, spiderman is irrelevant to our salvation. i notice athiesps keep reusing this argument. so much for free think!! archeology doesnt confirm spiderman. it does confirm the Bible. there are MANY venues of evidence for God. <---- this defense can be used vs. similar comparison of actual fiction to the Bible. Comment on the Defense: Throw this back. Example: "Dating rocks proves millions of years like spiderman movies prove spiderman!"
Athiattack: "Noo!11 u did it urself!! self self SELLLFFF!!11!"
Christian Defense: "Why are you interested in trying to give the credit to me? That's called humanism, and it breeds narcisissm and pride. What is so terrible about accepting that the loving Creator is doing wonderful favors for us, even tho we dont deserve them, eh?? Also, if that really is true, then why don't ppl who do that succeed more often? The Creator breaks the habits that humans can't! "
Athiattack: "Theres more proof for evo than gravity!!"
Christian Defense: "Oh? What are 3 evidences for evo that you can give me? And besides, it take a lot more effort to attempt to prove a wishywashy speculation-based belief than to prove a fact-based one."
Athiattack: "The traditional notion of God isn't coherent!!"
Christian Defense: Of course it is. Just because something doesn't align neatly with your assumptions does not mean it's "incoherent". It's perfectly coherent to me. So mabye coherence has a degree of subjectivity.
Athiattack: "The failure of theists to come up with a coherent description of God/god is enough by itself to warrant atheism, but there's many more reasons to think no gods exist."
Christian Defense: 1. There is no failure. You just stick to assumptions that you want to believe. Again, coherent does not mean "whatever fits my assumptions". I wonder how he will explain how HIS beliefs are coherent! 2. Nope. Too many arguments and findings warrant Christianity. 3. Nope. They are withOUT excuse + see 2.
Athiattack: "Since the universe is eternal no god could not have created it"
Christian defense: You already start with eternal universe, so you won't be getting good conclusions! There are many arguments against eternal universe theory, I wonder if you have any good arguments against. Obviously, nothing ELSE wouldve created it either. He has NO EVIDENCE of eternal universe, it is his ASSUMPTION. Nobody was there to verify an eternal universe. It is just more of man substituting God's Glory for physicalworld stuff, proving the Bible right. There's literally a verse describing what this man is doing!! He will place faith in an imaginary "eternal" universe rather than in his Savior! Very sad indeed.
Comment on Defense: One can flip this argument and say that "God is eternal so therefore humans never made up the God revealed by the Bible". If nonChristians try rebutting this, flip the argument. NonChristians by default MUST use bad logic to "justify" their nonbelief. They are WITHOUT excuse!


"mabye "there's no evidence" for God is a farytale made by athiests."
"no the burden of evidence on Christian"
"oh so you cannot defend against such a statement. Mabye i should still believe that it is farytale?"

Strikes are more "powerful" (convincing) than 'attacks'. But they are still flawed, if they are raised against God's Truth.
Athiestrike: "The problem is that a timeless, changeless being by definition cannot do anything; it's necessarily causally impotent and nonfunctional."
Christian Defense: God created time. The person is attaching arbitrary limits upon God. He seems to ASSUME that if it affects the natural, it "must" affect God too. Say a coder makes a 'time' variable in a game. The coder is controlled by his code if we use the athiest's foolish (Psalm 14:1) "logic". Also, what does being changeless have to do with potence?? Non sequitur found. Take a website, for example. Its code does not change unless its coder changes it. Yet it does stuff when you click various things. But it is not a being! So how much more can the Changeless God do things without needing to change! What's impotent and nonfunctioning is his unBiblical assertions that don't work!
Comment on the defense: And there's still the hurdle of the Incapability Argument. We could not have invented such things, we know about them because of GOD. if God didnt reveal theem to us how would we know??
CounterStrikes: Nonsequitur. Arbitrary limits.
AthieStrike: "The failure of all the "first cause" cosmological arguments for God result from naively taking our everyday notions of how we see the way the universe works and extrapolating from that huge metaphysical first principles!! "
Christian Defense: Well athiests with their naturalistic origin stories do this all the time to try to "prove" them. Thanks for the free ammo! Also again, there is still evidence against eternal universe that does not need extrapolating. Someone press this guy on the origins of matter and energy. Oh wait he may just throw "theyre eternal" or some other.... FUTILE SPECULATION.... at it!
Counterstrikes: Athiests are the ones doing it. Ath&city writer already has bad premise.
 
"P1: Our thoughts (mind or will) is either caused or uncaused, no other option is available" Ok.
"P2: If our thoughts (or whatever caused them) are caused we cannot be in control of them"
No. We literally cause them. Thoughts being caused or uncaused have nothing to do with having or not having freewill. We can choose WHAT to do with said thoughts. Just because we can't control the EXISTENCE or lack of existence of something doesn't mean we have no freewill PERIOD. But we CAN choose or choose to not influence pre-existing things. Limited freewill in no way equates to NO freewill period.
"P3: If our thoughts (or whatever caused them) are uncaused we cannot be in control of them" See rebuttal to his P2. His P3 is also nonsense.
"P4: It is logically impossible to choose our thoughts" Nope. 1, no evidence given. 2, see P2 and P3's takedowns.
"P5: Being in control of our thoughts (mind or will or whatever caused them) is a requirement of libertarian free will
C: Therefore libertarian free will is logically impossible"
Bad premise, bad conclusion. The Bible and Jesus are right again.
WOW!! HE BELIEVES THAT WE ARE JUST SLAVES AND ROBOTS!! Bad Trees Bearing Bad Fruit. He seems to be being logically consistent with athiesm/naturalism WITH THIS ONE. But he's not consistent for other items.
If someone thought that athiesm resulted in free thought and critical thinking, they delude themself. This no-will thinking is kinda similar what Sam Harris uses.
But somehwere else, the writes tries to advocate objective morality. But if we have no freewill so what? People are enslaved and morality is thus INCOHERENT under no-freewill views! This athiest is as shaky as a rattlesnake's rattle.
"The implication of this argument is astounding. If libertarian free will is logically impossible, that means God can't have libertarian free will. A god with no free will is not a God or god any traditional theist would recognize as God or god. God would be omnipotent, yet have no free will." The argument is powerless because it is false. So what we can get from his "point" is that if something is uncaused, then you can't control it. Uncaused just means it always existed and didn't have a cause. But only God can 'control' Himself.
"(The Kalam Cosmological Argument's first premise "Anything that begins to exist has a cause" also entails determinism, which negates free will.)" More illogical hogwash. Just because your will doesnt influence something's existence doesnt mean the will is not there. If my car fails to hit a deer, does the car or the deer cease to exist? If my freewill fails to create something or delete something from existence, does the freewill or the thing cease to exist? You can see how "limited will=no will" is completely crazy hogwash!! Also, nonsequitur.

He cites the Münchhausen trilemma on his 7). But try using that on his whole blog. His razor cuts both ways if that's how he's using the M.u.Trilemma.

"But if our universe is not logically necessary then there's no logically necessary reason God had to desire it be created it. Nothing compelled god to do so or even desire to do so. So why then does god exist timelessly and eternally with the desire to create our universe, and not any other universe, or no universe at all, if each of those other options are just as logically possible, and yet also not logically necessary?"
The illogic continues. God is not a monolithic 1-attribute God. So, the athiests should stop assuming that. He also has love, justice, mercy, and an array of other personality traits. He IS love according to the Bible. There is no reason any trait of His should conflict. There doesn't HAVE to be a logically neccessary reason. God compelled Himself. Apparently A&C W (Ath&city writer) assumes that something MUST be logically NECCESSARY (not just possible but full-on needed) for God to do anything. But it is an assumption, NOT a Biblical or observed fact.
He says 'frozen state' but doesn't go into definition of 'frozen'.
God does NOT have to have the Nature that He has. But He wants to be unchanging and have that Nature. A&C W also cited "Thomistic conception of God the Catholic Church espouses". But the cath's believe a bunch of antiBiblical stuff like pergtory & mary-ism!

"8) Omnibenevolence is incompatible with the natural evil of evolution

The late Christopher Hitchens often argued that any creator to this world is either incredibly incompetent, incredibly indifferent, or incredibly cruel."

Omnibenevolence?? Define that. Show me ONE Bible Verse that states that He is. I rarely see Christians state that He is ""omnibenevolent"". It's athiests who frequently cite it. Also, hitchens failed to pay attention to the Bible. Bad happens because of HUMAN SIN and due to our SIN NATURE; our ABUSE and MIISUSE of freewill. A&C W assumes biological evolution (BioEvo) to be true. It's not, see refutations of it online, etc. The Genesis 1-11 account is literal historic fact, not the goofy and speculation-packed naturalistic origin stories. Also the problem of evil has been refuted not once, twice, or thrice, but OVER AND OVER AGAIN. 8) is refuted.

"God is the greatest conceivable Being.
I can conceive of a greater being than Yahweh.
Therefore, Yahweh is not God."

Oh really? then concieve. And you'd have to explain HOW it would be 'greater'. A "God beyond God" simply does not exist. Logic and the Bible make this clear. His arg. shows nothing except hot athieair. 9) refuted/rebutted.

His 10) Eu's 'Lemma doesn't work like A&CW thinks it does. Why not BOTH? Mabye it's both? Also, i wonder how A&CW explains the origins of morality. God can just do whatever He wants. The Bible says that God IS love, so A&CW's 10) has another hole.

11) Religious belief is product of the brain
We have evidence that the sense of god is a neurochemical brain state that has evolutionary underpinnings.

HaHaHa - more Axiomatic Evolution right here! By his logic, all his beliefs are mere brain products. And what IS this said evidence? MORE natural-only assumptions??
"Evolution has embedded the predilection to notice patterns and to invoke agents when there aren't any, in a phenomena known as patternicity and agenticity, respectively. Our hominid ancestors lived in a world of danger, and they weren't yet the top of the food chain. If a noise was heard in the grass it was better to assume it might be a dangerous predator than just the wind. If they were wrong, they made a false positive, that is they incorrectly thought something was there that actually wasn't, and no harm was done. If, however, they assumed it was just the wind and it turned out it was a predator, they made a false negative, that is they incorrectly assumed there wasn't something there when there was, and they likely lost their life as a result of it. So evolution has made it so that false positives are much better to have than false negatives." Just-so stories, assumptions, extrapolations, speculations. Also, noticeable lack of evidence for these 'justsoisms'. This in no way explains the jump from 'stuff happens' to 'it was caused!' And why would we upscale a predator into God creating the universe? How illogical. If naturalism is true, WE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO THINK OF ANYTHING BEYOND. This fact singlehandedly annihalates naturalism and proves that God has revealed Himself. See "Argument from Incapability" which argues that God, Namely the God revealed by the Bible, WAS NEVER invented by humans if ANY worldview contradicting Biblical Christianity is true. It also argues that if any counterChristian beliefs are true, Biblical Christianity would not exist OR it would BE Biblical Christianity.

No to his 12). All HIS arguments fail. To fine tuning he says "I don't think gets off the ground". But again, assuming BioEvo. And yes, He CAN create a universe in many ways. To ontological, his "God beyond God" can easily be refuted. The athiest blows hot air but never delivers. The 'greaterness' of this "better-than-God" would have to be objective and NOT opinion-based. God's Unbeatability is still solid.
To use his saying on him: So it appears we've got a bunch of catch-22's here with his whole article. I can't see how atheists would still insist on noGodism after reading all this rebuttal.

"Religious texts are all internally inconsistent, they all fail to be corroborated by history and archaeology, and they all contain the flawed cosmology and superstition endemic of their day. "
But not the Bible. It has never been debunked ONCE. All alleged refutations of it either 1. were debunked or 2. CAN BE debunked. I've yet to see ONE ACTUAL thing debunking ANY part of the Bible.

" The Bible isn't even consistent on why suffering exists," Hogwash. Suffering can come from multiple sources, not only 1. Mr "CritThinker" can't think straight, he's "drunk" on Darwine, Darwin's Wine. and he believes in the folly that's NoGodism. "it's also extremely vague on the details of heaven" What impact does talking or not talking about Heaven's details have on the Christian truth? Also no, not vague. "and it contains several books in the New Testament that aren't even considered authentic (e.g. 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus, Hebrews, etc.). "
 
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Uh, Bibles like the NASB make it clear about extraBiblical scripts/texts. The translators may be unsure if they should or shouldn't be there. New stuff does not lend ANY credibility to his 13). The very best that 13). would "prove", on the topic of the new stuff, would be that the newer stuff is manmade. He ASSUMES a great number of things, and reaches bad conclusions. Apparently he doesnt realize that the Jews went through extreme measures to defend against paganization of Scripture. Mabye that's why God wanted those Cananites gone! A&CW asserts that "theyre backed by no evidence" but this is a brazen lie. Science actually SUPPORTS Genesis (no BioEvo, gene entropy, C.M.B., etc.) and pure sulfur, fish fossils on mountains, and more. This person should visit AiG .org.
"The New Testament wasn't written by any eyewitnesses who could have known Jesus and bears numerous signs of interpolation, alteration, geographic errors, and parallels with Near Eastern mythology" Lack of evidence. Lack of specificity. Lack of TRUTH!!
"why would He do it in such a way that contained all the ignorance extant of that time?" If i had a $1 bill for every time nonChristians used the "but but but the understanding of the Bible's writers!!" argument was used, I might be a millionaire. The Bible was Divinely Inspired. Human understanding is a non-factor and a non-sequitur here. The Bible was and is ALL based on God's ideas. In fact, this argument is a good solid reason why the Bible tells us to NOT lean on our own understanding. Seems like A&CW is assuming non-Inspiration (which asserts that God didn't inspire the Bible) to prove it. Circular, innit?
Why no BioEvo? Because then there WOULD be a farytale. The excuses I've heard for athiesm vary and are all laughable. "Some theists say for example, that God wouldn't to give us too much evidence, because then we couldn't reject Him. What?!? So God purposely makes His revelations ridiculous and unbelievable to test our faith?" What a rarity. No serious, Biblically-based Christian I've known of uses this. Sounds more like a strawman from athiests or from a Christian who isn't skilled at "contending for the Faith".
"the less evidence we have and the less plausible it sounds, the more it's got to be true. It's not worth any intelligent person's consideration." LITERALLY EVO, BBT, ETERNALUNIVERSE, AND DEEP TIME!! He addresses other faiths, but there are other and better ways to refute those.
A&CW's Conclusion: "I've outlined 13 good reasons why I'm an atheist above." And i have proven them to be more worthless firefodder. None of them will give you lasting love, peace, joy, hope, gentleness, or SELFCONTROL. There's MUCH more good ones to be Christian. "Many of them are unique to me, and perhaps, never been argued before." <no comment>. "I am confident that each is true and that together they make an awesomely powerful case against theism that goes far above and beyond a reasonable justification for atheism. Argument (1) by itself is enough to justify one's atheism. Combine that with arguments 2-13 and you have what I see as an irrefutable case that there is no god, and that naturalism is true. When theists complain that atheists are incapable of bearing any burden of proof, they've never been to my blog. Atheists are certainly capable of making positive arguments for atheism, and this blog post is the proof." Well, they have been shredded to shreds. Or at least damaged into disfiguration. If you see my rebuttals, your confidence might crack. Psalm 14:1 proves true time after time.

MY CONCLUSION: Apparently, this athiest can only use logical fallacies like circle reason and non sequitur, start from bad premises (eternaluniverse), and recycle debunked beliefs (etenaluniverse). Psalm 14:1 and Romans 1:20-24 are proven right so often. The athiest keeps using nonsequiturs. So far it and ?begging seem to be his pet fallacies on his article. Mabye even his whole blog. I saw that he tried to prove universe eternality by using... the speed of light and what light does?? That's illogical, i can try to use the speed of turtles to say that turtles are eternal too. Also he said something about "take human level perception and understanding of the way the world works and extrapolate from them gigantic metaphysical principles." So by what he says, his eternal universe belief is extrapolation, too. In fact, many of HIS arguments fail based on that! He ASSUMES that bioevo is true, but bioevo relies heavily on extrapolating. We Christians do NOT exclusively use 'the way it works' to prove the Christian truth. There are other avenues of evidence, like testimonies and the clear benefits that come from the Bible-based Christian worldview. Another thing I noticed is, I don't even have to refute much of his claims. I can take out his premises and his conclusions will crumble. This makes it easy to refute him. As is demonstrated by that site, you cannot find consistency or truth with noGodism. You can with Christianity.

end a&city here))))
 
""Notice that the only things you think are ''only assumptions without evidence'' are all things you want to be magical and no, they're not without evidence."
Okay, so how do you know that the thing(s) that i cited were "assumptions without evidence"? Also, YOU want the Supernatural to just be "magical" instead of fact.
"So you claim we are using circular reasoning by using the Bible to prove the Bible, yet you guys try to prove naturalism by using the natural world. Hmmm inconsistency."
it seems that athiests actually think that the paintings of God and shows depicting Christianity falsely are anywhat decent depictions of God or Christianity. apparently, athiest doesn't think critically and falls for strawmen! Critical thinking and logic are big athiest selling points - but that is the enemy of athiesm, ironically.
Athiesm is a position of ignorance - they typically dont have evidence, but when they do, they do 1 of 3 things: convert, suspend, or just be intellectually dishonest. IDK of any 4th thing. This is demonstrated on r/antithiestcheescake and in "deconversion testimonies". In these, they reject God due to bad beliefs or because emotion. (they were abused, etc.) You will be hardpressed to find any LOGICAL 'reasons', however. Intresting note - athiests sure love their cliches.
VS evolution: "How is believing in bigbang, evo, and millions years critical thinking when the public schools are cranking out ppl who believe the natualistic tales? Many people blindly believe it becuase "school said so". "
It's interesting to note that there's a "science consensus" on naturalistic origin tales and manmade CO2 climatechange - but where is the consensus on the fact of aerodynamics, gravity, and the existence of galaxies?


"Why would the Divine be let in, anyway? "
1. God IS real. May as well claim that air doesnt exist and to try to believe that you can breathe.
2. That's the most logical conclusion.
3. GOD created the laws of physics.
4. Much irrational, absurd mental gymnastics has to be done to attempt to justify DISbelief in God. None of that fluff is needed to be Christian.
5. Why WOULDNT the Divine be let in?
6. People open to God have been the most inventive scientists. What have evolutionists offered us besides worthless GUESSES about the past??
7. Because He loves us and He wants a relationship with us. It's not only stupid and rude but also sinful and evil to reject God!!

"Should we declare leprechauns as science as well? Why not?"
No because if they are supernatural, then the laws of physics dont act on them because they wouldnt be physical beings.
Almost no one argues for the existence of leprecauns.
Science is a body of knowledge. Leprecans are not a body of knowledge. Poor communication by an athiest. Science relates to the PHYSICAL realm.

Try looking for testimonies about God and visions of Heaven and the lake of fire/hell.
Now try searching for testimonies about leprecans.
Evidence for God > evidence for leprechans and evalooshun."

Athiest resorts to believing that the laws of physics can be changed by physical things withOUT the help of the supernatural??! Seems so! *IF* this is so, then Psalm 14:1 is proven right again.

Using the Bible to prove God is NOT circular reasoning. the Bible is a collection of Books, while God is the Creator of all matter. CHARACTERISTICS aren't CLAIMS. using the characteristics of the Bible to prove the Bible's statements right and prove the existence of God are solid. Claims made by humans would prove that humans exist, right?
FAITHIESM: athiests needs Tons and Tons of faith, ironically. they PRIDE themselves on "having no faith at all". Even if they dont explicitly SAY this, they certainly seem to BELIEVE it, judging by their posts.
1. they BELIEVE stuff with less evidence for it (gaygene, life from nonlife, that faith is bad or whatever, etc.), but arbitrarily relegate, in order to believe in God, to have an extremely large or even impossible amount of evidence for God. Clearly they simply WANT God to be "fake". That's just wishful thinking of the "free" thinker (more like FREE BELIEVER!!).
2. they BELIEVE there is NO evidence for God. What convinced them that this ASSUMPTION was true? Say "if there wasnt evidence, i wouldnt believe." and await their response. When you tackle them over the 'no evidence' issue, they will probably give an illogical aswer or none at all. One person stuck "credible" in front of 'evidence', but this does nothing to keep athiesm afloat. How would you determine what's credible? anything that aligns with the natural-only view (which clearly excludes God from the outset)? And still, what causes them to ASSUME that there IS NO credible evidence?? The belief "there IS NO evidence for God" will always be a mere belief with no convincing evidence. It won't be an evidencebacked belief but a blind one.
3. they typically BELIEVE that ALL faith is blind. Ask them for evidence that ALL faith is blind.
"The assent of the mind to the statement or proposition of another, on the ground of the manifest truth of what he utters; firm and earnest belief, on probable evidence of any kind, especially in regard to important moral truth." One definition. Source: Literally the dictionary.
So the BELIEF that ALL faith is blind is itself a FAITH belief. And it is even REFUTABLE and refuted! How ironic! Athiesm results in intellectual dishonesty, willful ignorance (i sometimes call it "ostrichism"), foolishness, irrationally dodging God, and downright immorality.
Attack "manmadeism", their belief that God is 'man'made. Also, posit challenges to their belief that there IS "no" God in the forms of questions and statements.
I, as a Bible-based Creation Christian, am using much logic for debunking and destroying various counterChristian beliefs, and backing up Christianity. To claim that Christianity is illogical is ironic, since athiests have to borrow logic from the Christian worldview, it's not native to their view.
I notice that it is only flawed beliefs that bear the bad fruit of censorship. There is a church that believes and believeD extraBiblical and unBiblical things like 'mary as God's mom', purgatory, etc, called the catholic church. Catholicism is NOT Christianity, it is a compromised warping. They used censorship in times past, anyone can see the fact they tried to basically keep the Bible to themselves, and only let specific people tell others what to think, and leave them in the dark so they couldn't really question the strange teachings of catholicism. And under natsi Germany, ruled by evolutionist hitler, censorship of anti-natsism material was rampant. Under kommunist rule of countries, censorship was and is a majorly significant issue. But Biblical Christianity has no need for censorship of opposing views, because it is founded in FACT. And censorship of views is just bad, PERIOD. Christianity supports good and rejects bad because it is from God, Who loves us and made us.

"An athiest with morals is like a soldier who rejects the existence of the General Who gave those orders, and follow only SOME of the General's Commands, and also they may even fight the Christians who TRY to FULLY obey the General."
An athiest rejects Christianity, one excuse is that he BELIIEEEVES it's "made up", yet will follow morals he BELIEVES are also "manmade". Quite inconsistnt. He should realize morality is evidence for God.
Strat: Get them to prove/support/defend concepts like freewill and morals, then use that to damage their views and support Christianity.
---------
notes:
Presence of faith in Jesus results in good works. On the other hand, presence of faith in something else over Jesus results in bad works.
The Bible's Old Testament was written in Hebrew. Then the New, in Greek. Jesus spoke Aramaic. I see this as significant, the Old Testament for the Old Covenant with the Israelites, and the New Testament for the New Covenant with the Jews AND Gentiles. The Bible is God's Word.
on china: Today, the Chinese government, through the General Administration of Press and Publication (GAPP), controls all licenses for publication, exercising considerable powers of censorship. This has led to a huge underground publication industry. Perhaps 60 percent of the books currently printed in China are produced illegally.
 
refute an evo "evidence"
twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1779836814162809192?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
evo agendas
twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1780199297268519266?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
UNDERpop is worse:
crev.info/2024/04/falling-birth-rate-crisis/
Credible Creationism:
crev.info/2024/04/apollo-moon-age/
crev.info/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/BM-Consensus-Field.jpg
THE LEGACY OF KEN HAM: twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1782361643415961737?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Scary Evoathiests & their Dirty Tactics: twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1782724871102804059?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Depressing BioEvo/athiesm & nonsense "breakthrough": twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1783438523565023436?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Evolution Religiiiionnnn!!!!! : answersingenesis.org/evolution/are-feathers-one-of-evolutions-cleverest-inventions/
Christianity is NO threat! twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1783797337434755172?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Vehement athiests accuse Christians of "fasism"! twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1779481854376079730?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
EVILution: twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1784540217908559975?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Faith bioevo: twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1784896946034921582?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Evilution story field musem: twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1787066895167856891?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
"if God, why bad" addressed: twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1787452755784655261?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Compromise issues ("Christian" athiesm/Thiestic evo): answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2024/05/03/is-it-really-about-age-of-earth/
Defeat some common athiest talking points. Yes, this is catholic site, but they have good args against athiesm. ncregister.com/commentaries/six-myths-of-atheism

Defeat Purg. + ApocryFAKE: versebyverseministry.org/bible-answers/refuting-purgatory
Defeat Sweborgism: versebyverseministry.org/bible-answers/are-swedenborg-s-teachings-biblical?locale=en

[[Use in 'Evoref + Flood proven' thread:
Darwin ideas contradicting the Bible: twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1786354634614788427?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
raysus darwin: twitter.com/aigkenham/status/1768145135957889297?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
/end ]]
"Atheist communists in the 20th century killed more people than the Church was ever even accused of killing. Killed were some 65 million (and counting) in China; 20 million in the Soviet Union, 2 million (and counting) in North Korea, 2 million in Cambodia, 1.7 million in Africa, 1.5 million in Afghanistan, 1 million in Vietnam, 1 million in communist Eastern Europe and 150,000 in Latin America."

quote: "As I’ve said before, evolution is a religion because it is a belief system about the past. How can an evolutionist believe things without rigorous scientific proof or with proofs that get adjusted radically every few years? The answer is that he wants to. There is a term for this type of belief system—that term is religion."

"All the Darwin-based, materialist social sciences are pseudosciences, as admitted by social scientists and psychologists themselves. For example:

Social Scientists Ashamed but Still Ask for Trust (11 April 2023)
Social Sciences Flunk Science Test (13 April 2022)
Psychologists Are Schizophrenic about Mental Illness (14 April 2022)
Psychotherapy Is Useless (3 Aug 2021)
Evolutionary Anthropologists Fail Big Time (22 July 2020)
Don’t Trust a Secular Shrink (30 May 2020)
Brain Science Needs a Rethink (18 May 2020)
Freud: Celebrity Fraud (22 March 2020)
Psychology’s Fake Superiority Over Religion (16 Feb 2020)
Psychologist, Fix Your Own Problems (6 Oct 2019)
More Criticisms Raised Against Psycho-Science (6 Aug 2019)
Anthropologists and Psychologists Under Fire for Flawed Methods (19 Nov 2018)
Evolutionary Psychologists Deny Their Own Minds (24 Nov 2017)

Notice the reference to “the consensus from anthropologists” in Taylor’s quote above. He does not say, “The whole lot of them were wrong. They were wrong about neo-Darwinism. They warped the secular view of human nature, therefore I have repented. I have quit the field of secular psychology, turned to the Creator who made our minds and souls, and have become a Biblical counselor at a God-honoring church.” If he had said that, it’s almost certain that The Conversation (better, The Indoctrination) would never have published it. No; Taylor is still one of them. He still wants to be part of The Consensus: the new Groupthink party of secular anthropologists, sociologists and psychologists in academia. But guess what. The whole lot of them are still Darwinians!"
Evolutionary expectations Observations
Convergences are rare and less likely with increasing complexity.// Convergences are extremely frequent.
Shape diversity is easily represented in tree diagrams (cladism). //Cladograms are unstable, often changed, controversial, reticular relationships.
“Primitive” forms are (tend to be) recorded fossil before derived forms.// Relatively derived forms at base, presumed ancestors partly “younger” than descendants.
Fossil sequence shows increasing diversity in time. //Fossil sequence shows explosive occurrence.
Known mechanisms explain the way of occurrence of the diversity of forms. //Known mechanisms do not explain sudden occurrence.
 
Whoa, dude! What is the purpose in all of the things you've posted in this thread? It's just a tidal wave of...stuff, given in a form that is not a little confusing and actually rather off-putting. Is this just your own personal rambling thread, a sort of stream-of-consciousness series of posts that wanders all over the place? It seems like it, which makes this thread very difficult to read and engage with since there's so much you've written and so little explanation as to why. Do you know how to order your thoughts into coherent, understandable paragraphs? Have you been taught how to write well. If so, it'd be nice to see you post in a more carefully-constructed way. Just a thought.
 
@Tenchi

This was a *bunch* of arguments against athiesm, evolution, etc. that i got down.
It wasnt intended to be organized.
It also has 'warts and all'. If you think i quitted psychology, for example (i never even joined it), well I didnt that was a quote from someone.

in my wall of text, its easy to lose track of if its my words or quote.
but still, you can get material to use in debates.
 
Whoa, dude! What is the purpose in all of the things you've posted in this thread? It's just a tidal wave of...stuff, given in a form that is not a little confusing and actually rather off-putting. Is this just your own personal rambling thread, a sort of stream-of-consciousness series of posts that wanders all over the place? It seems like it, which makes this thread very difficult to read and engage with since there's so much you've written and so little explanation as to why. Do you know how to order your thoughts into coherent, understandable paragraphs? Have you been taught how to write well. If so, it'd be nice to see you post in a more carefully-constructed way. Just a thought.
I want my apologetic content to be out there. Mabye 1 day a Christian will go hunting for a defense of his faith or attack false ideas, and use it.
 
Hey All,
Atheists do not deny all evidence for a creator.
Most that I have spoken with say there is not enough evidence to convince them. They are looking for 100% scientific fact before they believe.

We as believers cannot give them 100% proof.
We simply do not have it to give to them.
No matter how many evidence you have, it still takes faith to receive God's grace.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Mark 4:23
If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

God has to open their ears.

Having said that, you keep going KV-44-v1. You never know who might reas your words. God could use them with someone and open their ears.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
 
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This was a *bunch* of arguments against athiesm, evolution, etc. that i got down.
It wasnt intended to be organized.
It also has 'warts and all'. If you think i quitted psychology, for example (i never even joined it), well I didnt that was a quote from someone.

in my wall of text, its easy to lose track of if its my words or quote.
but still, you can get material to use in debates.

So, imagine your neighbor comes up to you and says, "Hey, if you ever need a set of tools to help you build anything, I got a bunch that you can use. You'll have to dig 'em out of the junk in my garage, though, and then clean them up. They're all covered in dust, and dirt, and grease. And I don't think the table saw has a blade in it... Oh, and I'm not sure where the batteries are for the cordless drill. Anyway, feel free to use my stuff, if you want!"

The next day, another neighbor approaches you and says, "Hello. Just thought you might want to know that I've set up a workshop in my garage and you're free to use it, if you want to. There's lots of space, everything's ordered, and clean, and ready for use. All the tools and equipment you might need to make almost anything are available, and there are clear instructions posted to help you use any of the equipment with which you aren't familiar."

Whose set of tools are you likely to use, if you ever need to? Are you going to rummage around for dirty, maybe-not-working, tools in the junk pile in the first neighbor's garage when you can just walk into the second neighbor's neat, clean, ready-to-go garage workshop and get right to building what you want?

My point is that, if you want folks to really benefit from your apologetic information, offering it to them in the manner of the first neighbor - jumbled, confused, hard to use - is sure to put them off. Especially when they can go to websites like www.reasonablefaith.org, or www.crossexamined.org, or www.johnlennox.org, etc., and find well-arranged, clear, concise, and easily accessible apologetic information, you can be sure they will ignore whatever info. you might have to share when it's delivered in the manner in which you've laid it out in this thread.

I would urge you, then, to do the work of making your posts understandable - that is, properly grammatical, logically and topically cohesive, and engaging. If you have a desire to "boost the signal" concerning Christian apologetics online, great! More power to you! Just learn to do so well.
 
look up "Evidence for God" on google, and tell me how MANY results you got."

"Why are you avoiding the evidence? Why are you scared of accepting the Gospel?"

"There's 2 ad infinitum's i saw in evolution: 1. the common ancestor may have evolved from a thing that evolved from a thing... and so on. and another: how many transitional forms? what's between a monkey and a man? a monkeman. and whats between a monke&monkeman, and monkeman&human ? a monkemonkeyman and a monkehumanhuman, and so on. It's no better than the aliens creating aliens thing."

""other beliefs claim to have evidence, why else they believe?"" response: "Oh, so you ADMIT that there IS evidence after all? I'm glad you are humble and smart enough to realize this. It's a "sin" in the athiest "religion" to accept this FACT."

' Hitler believed in evolution. Like from monke to man. He was simply following the logical final outcome of evolution. If God was "fake", and there are 'high evolved human' and 'low evolved human', then why care about the 'low'?? Just because someone uses God's Name occasionally does NOT mean someone follows His commands. Athiests utter 'oh my G' like it's nothing in tvshows and IRL on a regular basis, sadly. The "Christian hitler" argument is one of the weakest arguments EVER. Also, see stalin and other dictators. They followed God-less ideologies, and lok at the rotten fruit those ideologies produced.'

New design argument: Life was obviously created by God. Computer code relies on metal circutry and life's code relies on chemical dna. If you cannot see the similarity, you are deluding yourself. If you keep BELIEEEVING that life is just a bunch of accidents, you are only fooling yourself and confirming Romans 1:20-24. Please accept Christianity as it is more logical, which i have just shown here.



Lazy athiesm: Athiesm really is a position of ignorance. It's also a position of intellectual laziness!! They are usually like 'oh, i don't have to prove my claim, you have to prove yours' as if lack of evidence alone is enough to reject the Gospel Truth which is so much better than worthless athiesm!! So they can't attack, only intellectually retreat & be lazy, so YOU have to do all the thinking YOURSELF. Little or no thought on the noGodist's part! And a youtube commenter called 'logical athiest' is parroting the UNTRUTH that is 'aThiEsM iS tHe MoSt LogiCaL poSitItoN!1!'. The Bible and observation say otherwise, obviously!!



Athiests typically are angry and ragey, and have a 'look down on the thiests' pride attitude. If God was "fake", then WHY are they so angry and devoted to their athiesm? They write whole books, attack Christians verbally and physically, and blog against Christianity and thiesm. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who lacks belief in, say, 4 foot tall gummy worms that want to take over all the planets in our solar system, trying to tell anyone that 'there are no 4 ft tall gummy worms with an agenda', or writing books and blogging about their lack of belief or disbelief in 4ft tall gummy worms. God exists, if He "didn't" , athiests wouldn't be so hyped up about Him and trying to win over converts. Yes, converts. Oh, and you don't usually see space alien rejecters treat space alien believers anywhat similar to how athiests treat Christians. I don't know of ANY world leader who has done horrible things because of their belief or lack of or disbelief in ET space aliens. That's athiesm that produces the rotten fruit. But what is the point of their athiesm? They should know by now that if they were 'right', nobody will care and they'll fade away. But if they are wrong, they will meet eternal fire. THEY chose that destiny, even though God let them live. Why are they soooo proud as to waste their life on athiesm that does NOTHING to TRULY benefit them? Athiests are typically devoted to their athiesm, but yet they CLAIM that it's not a religion. Observation contradicts this CLAIM.





atheist's alleged reliance on empiricism and materialism as sole basis for knowledge and reality can be seen as self-undermining. But the philosophical principles of empiricism cannot be empirically verified themselves, creating a logical paradox.



Additionally, some have argued that atheism's rejection of objective moral truths is problematic, as it makes the atheist's own moral condemnations of things like cruelty or injustice incoherent - if there are no objective moral standards, then such judgments have no grounding.



Another potential selfrefuting element of atheism is the difficulty of accounting for the emergence of human consciousness, reason, and agency within a purely materialistic framework. The argument is that these uniquely human attributes seem to transcend the physical world in ways that challenge atheistic explanations.

They use their free will, that is enabled by the soul, to reject the fact of the soul's existence! Double self defeat!



Blind faith: Illogical Fathiests believe from faith that theres "lack" of evidence for God. They cant prove yet they believe.

Athiests uncaused 1st cause: physics, apparently.

they sometimes believe in an eternal dumb universe but not an Eternal Creator Who knows all and created the universe?? truly crazy and shows human drive for sin.

Human & chimp epigenetic markers very dissimilar. Use cell apoptosis and cell checkpoints to demolish evalooshun.

Athiests're like polythiests. creator gods: time, chance, physics. service god: themself. Naturalism IS a religion; it is an organized set of beliefs. Religions do not need to involve a supernatural to be a religion.

Can athiests define the phrase "evidence of/for God"?? If they can't that's like a kid saying 'there is no fish' when he doesnt know what a fish is.



"Sadly, belief in evolution can erode people’s God-given ability to appreciate beauty because they reject beauty for beauty’s sake. <comment note. If God was "fake", then WHY is it rejecting Him, of all ideological things, that erodes beauty appreciation? Hmmm, mabye it is because humans were MADE to have God in their lives! Evolution nor naturalism have ANY explanation, so far, of this phenomena. More bad fruit of athiesm/naturalism! Cast off chainthiesm, accept Freedom in Jesus! The Gospel is correct and beneficial.> Charles Darwin admitted that he had lost his natural, childlike appreciation for beauty. He said: “I have said that in one respect my mind has changed during the last twenty or thirty years. I have also almost lost my taste for pictures or music . . . . I retain some taste for fine scenery but it does not cause me the exquisite delight which it formerly did.”4

In contrast, belief in creation increases a person’s appreciation of beauty because that person knows beauty is the work of a loving Creator. This is what the hymnist George Wade Robinson said of beauty: “Heaven above is softer blue, Earth around is sweeter green; something lives in every hue Christless eyes have never seen: birds with gladder songs o’erflow, flow’rs with deeper beauties shine, since I know, as now I know, I am His, and He is mine.”" Source: ans. in Genesis .org

What even IS the point in trying to beat around the bush about beauty?? Why are you so scared to admit beauty in creation is from God?? If you insist on rejecting God in light of fact after fact, you are NOT following facts, but foolishly deluding yourself with NoGodism. Psalm 14:1 and Romans 1:20-24 are proven RIGHT, as usual.

“Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. It's merely that when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought. But if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? It's like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London. But if I can't trust my own thinking, of course I can't trust the arguments leading to Atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an Atheist, or anything else. Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought: so I can never use thought to disbelieve in God.” - C.S. Lewis. Athiesm the "most logical" position?? Well, this quote rips that claim apart!!

"no God demonstrated to exist!!" Response: What do you mean by demonstrated? Your thoughts haven't been demonstrated to exist, yet you believe they are real. Same with big bang. And why do you ASSUME that demonstration is the only way to prove something?
"It's a clear case of religion making good people do bad things."

Sounds like that is EXACTLY what the religion of secular humanism (aka self idolatry) & naturalism ("only the physical is real") are doing! Also, how you know what is good and bad if God's fake and you're just a monkey??

"Christian love is exactly why Missions like mercyships and international fellowship of Christians and Jews exist. But your opinion obviously trumps reality, & everything that disagrees with you is hate.

"I guess I should say all of scientific consensus. "

Is this all you have? That's called the appeal to authority fallacy.

"Reality is NOT a democracy in which we can vote on what's real and what's fake!"

"And you're very deluded if you think scientists make distinctions between how things work and how they originate."



Of course they don't these days, because they fallen prey to ASSUMING that the cosmos is all there is & that the universe & life MUST have a natural only explanation. THEN, they make conclusions BASED OFF THAT.
" Like, we know how mountains originate and it has basis in what we know about how tectonics works. These things are tied very often.""
Very good post.
I believe it's in the wrong forum.
It should be in APOLOGETICS, but i leave this to you and the moderators.

Too heavy for The Lounge...
 
"Why are you avoiding the evidence?
May I suggest you take a look at how wintery Knight organises and presents his evidence for God and Christianity, link :-https://winteryknight.com/2024/05/19/are-atheists-unbiased-about-the-question-of-gods-existence-2/

And tactics for discussing evidence:-
 
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