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An Accursed Covenant

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xicali

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AN ACCURSED COVENANT


Introduction: The call for every believer is to live in the new covenant and to take away the first, knowing that it was defective and accursed.


I. THE END OF THE OLD COVENANT AND THE START OF A NEW COVENANT

Hebrews 7:11-12 – “…the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.â€Â

Hebrews 8:13 – “… A new covenant… hath made the first old…â€Â

Hebrews 8:6-7 – “…if that first covenant had been faultless…no place have been sought for the second.â€Â

Hebrews 10:7–9 - “… He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.â€Â

Romans 7:5-6 - “…we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.â€Â



II. WHAT DOES PAUL SAY ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT/COMMANDMENTS?

2 Cor 3:7 – Ministration of death.
2 Cor 3:9 – Ministration of condemnation.
2 Cor 3:10 – Was Glorious.
2 Cor 3:11 – Had Glory.
2 Cor 3:14 – The old covenant blinds the mind.
Galatians 3:10 – as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse.
Galatians 3:11-12 - The law is not of faith.
Galatians 5:1-4 – Whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from Grace.


You are Blessed

xicali

----------------------------------------------
 
Hi xicali. I'm more a Jesus believer than a Paul believer. I believe that, had the Bible stopped at the 4 gospels, we would have more than enough information to be saved. Remove Paul and we remove a great deal of confusion and hostility among Christians.

A pertinent point, perhaps . . .Paul nor Peter, nor John, etc. had any idea that they were participating in a New Testament of the scriptures. It's interesting - I think - that Jesus NEVER prepared ANYONE for the future appearance of Paul. And yet, Paul has BECOME the New Testament. Doesn't anyone ever wonder about this?
 
SputnikBoy said:
Hi xicali. I'm more a Jesus believer than a Paul believer. I believe that, had the Bible stopped at the 4 gospels, we would have more than enough information to be saved. Remove Paul and we remove a great deal of confusion and hostility among Christians.
Click to expand...
Ok Sput....so you and others seem to have problem with Paul and don’t think he was needed.

I throw out this challenge to you or anybody else who thinks Paul is unimportant..

1. What is your message of salvation today? When you talk to the sinner what exactly do you tell them when it comes to how the sinner is saved? I trust you witness to lost sinnners - what is your message of hope to them? Be precise now.

2. Can you show me from scripture where any common saint (other than a prophet) in the OT and the Gospels knew that Christ was going to die for sins?

3. Explain why Christ’s disciples, of all people, did not know and understand that Christ was to die for sins...:o

Luke 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
Luke 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
Luke 18:34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Thank you and may God bless 8-)
 
xicali said:
AN ACCURSED COVENANT
Introduction: The call for every believer is to live in the new covenant and to take away the first, knowing that it was defective and accursed.
Click to expand...
Thanks xicali for your work - I understand what you are tying to say - Can we fine-tune here? :D

I think if you study the word covenant closely you will find that the body of Chhrist is not associated with covenants - Covenants have been and always will be associated with God and Isreal - especially the much quoted Jer. 31 and Heb. 8.

Covenants can be broken - which Israel was notorious for. Our salvation and standing with God is not based upon covenants - praise God :-D for if the were then we'd break them for sure! :o


God bless.
 
A good thing to do AV is read 2 Peter 3:16. And when you are reading it, if you have always presumed that it is a reference to anyone but you, then you have a serious problem. You will never be able to escape any snares that have been set for you.
 
AVBunyan said:
xicali said:
AN ACCURSED COVENANT
Introduction: The call for every believer is to live in the new covenant and to take away the first, knowing that it was defective and accursed.
Click to expand...
Thanks xicali for your work - I understand what you are tying to say - Can we fine-tune here? :D

I think if you study the word covenant closely you will find that the body of Christ is not associated with covenants - Covenants have been and always will be associated with God and Israel - especially the much quoted Jer. 31 and Heb. 8.

Covenants can be broken - which Israel was notorious for. Our salvation and standing with God is not based upon covenants - praise God :-D for if the were then we'd break them for sure! :o


God bless.
Click to expand...


Thanks AV... Thank you for your insight.

Our beloved brothers [Gentiles] who identified themselves now days as Judaiser believers, love to be included on the covenant given to the children of Israel.

"...God made a covenant with us in Ho'reb. The Lord made NOT this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all alive here today." Deuteronomy 5:1-4

The Christian under Grace [ believers] be it either Jew [ of the remnant] or Gentile are Children of the promise. This promise was given to Abraham as a Gentile in regards to a great nation or a people, like as "never been". Joel 2:2

The Jews [not the remnant] before the cross "... were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed [after the cross].

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us [the remnant] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith [with the Gentile believer ].

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

For as many of you [the elected remnant and gentile] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:22-29


"...what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free."
Galatians 4:30-31

The bonwoman and her son represent one covenant and The Jerusalem that comes from above who are children of the Free [2nd covenant].

Now the second covenant is not really a covenant that languge was of that of the old testament because the future had not been manifested and it's audiance wouldn't be able to understand Free, Jerusalem from above for the children of the free are not boud by contracts on covenants.

My " An Accursed Covenant" post is from the Juidaser beliver point of view since that's what they love to argue.



You Are Blessed

xicali


p.s.

Progressive Revelation? That's gonna be interesting I must say. :smt109
-----------------------------
 
AVBunyan said:
xicali said:
AN ACCURSED COVENANT
Introduction: The call for every believer is to live in the new covenant and to take away the first, knowing that it was defective and accursed.
Click to expand...
Thanks xicali for your work - I understand what you are tying to say - Can we fine-tune here? :D

I think if you study the word covenant closely you will find that the body of Chhrist is not associated with covenants - Covenants have been and always will be associated with God and Isreal - especially the much quoted Jer. 31 and Heb. 8.

Covenants can be broken - which Israel was notorious for. Our salvation and standing with God is not based upon covenants - praise God :-D for if the were then we'd break them for sure! :o


God bless.
Click to expand...

Unbelievable.
 
AVBunyan said:
SputnikBoy said:
Hi xicali. I'm more a Jesus believer than a Paul believer. I believe that, had the Bible stopped at the 4 gospels, we would have more than enough information to be saved. Remove Paul and we remove a great deal of confusion and hostility among Christians.
Click to expand...
Ok Sput....so you and others seem to have problem with Paul and don’t think he was needed.

If you're being totally honest, AV, you would have to acknowledge that, if not for paul, the chances of there being only ONE Christian denomination instead of hundreds of them are very good. We would all basically agree with one another. T'would make the forum a little boring, however! :)

I throw out this challenge to you or anybody else who thinks Paul is unimportant..

1. What is your message of salvation today? When you talk to the sinner what exactly do you tell them when it comes to how the sinner is saved? I trust you witness to lost sinnners - what is your message of hope to them? Be precise now.

The simplest and the most well known scripture that I would point someone to for their message of salvation would be John 3:16. This one says it all quite precisely. Even without Paul, this text seemed to have it figured out.

2. Can you show me from scripture where any common saint (other than a prophet) in the OT and the Gospels knew that Christ was going to die for sins?

The ramifications behind this future act were beyond the scope of most. And that's fine. It doesn't take anything away from the gospels.

3. Explain why Christ’s disciples, of all people, did not know and understand that Christ was to die for sins...:o

Same as above. The magnitude of Jesus' forthcoming sacrifice and the impact that it would have on the world could not possibly have been realized prior to the event by these 'common' Galileans. They were fishermen, not theologians.

Luke 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
Luke 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
Luke 18:34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

But, like Paul, they knew AFTER the event.
Click to expand...
 
If anything, Paul's writings have turned what should be a 'simple faith' into something much more complex.
 
SputnikBoy said:
If anything, Paul's writings have turned what should be a 'simple faith' into something much more complex.
Click to expand...

I agree , spute, but that does not mean it is not useful or not from God. I believe those complicated parts are also test for our faith. He is testing how we interprete; are we going to use it for our selfish motivation or for His purpose? This is just MHO.
 
Meh, I believe you have taken each and everyone of those scriptures out of complete context and have arrived at a ludicrous interpretation.
 
AVBunyan said:
I think if you study the word covenant closely you will find that the body of Chhrist is not associated with covenants
Click to expand...

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
 
Simple Faith

Yes it is Heidi...


God says it, I belive it = The Spirit of Faith.


The simplicity that is in the resurrected Christ at work, without works.



You're Blessed

Xicali
 
I believe we are saved by the Everlasting covenant, where the persons of the Godhead entered into agreement before time to saved the elect. Father God gives the Son, God the Son offers Himself as a perfect sacrifice while God the Holy Spirit administers the covenant. Titus 1:2, Hebrews 13:20 The elect of God are tested according to a particular purpose of God that is to be accomplished, we see a difference among God’s elect, ‘new wine in new wine skins’ Matthew 9:17. With the Old Covenant the elect were gathered out of Israel [mainly], with the New Covenant the elect are gathered out of world. -
The Gospel is the fulfillment of the Covenant made with Abraham. Galatians 3:7 = all who have faith are Abraham’s children, we are blessed with Abraham v.9 because of this faith and Christ died so this blessing might come onto the gentiles v. 14. Abraham experienced the justification of faith in the promise (Gal. 3:6-9, 18), we experience the same justification because we are Abraham’s true seed (Gal. 3:29). In Gal. 3:16 Paul argues for ‘seed’ and not ‘seeds’ and that one seed is Christ. National Israel is a type, the Church is fulfillment.

AV, you know I respect your opinion brother, but I have to ask, how does the church benefit outside of a covenant relationship with God? How is Paul an able minister of the New Covenant 2Co 3:6?

Peace,

jason
PS: KJV at it's best http://www.audiotreasure.com/indexKJV.htm
 
JM said:
AV, you know I respect your opinion brother, but I have to ask, how does the church benefit outside of a covenant relationship with God? How is Paul an able minister of the New Covenant 2Co 3:6?
Peace,
Click to expand...
Well brother for one - I don't mind admitting I don't fully understand all these covenants but here is 2 Cor. 3:6 in the AV...

2 Cor 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The verse says "testament" now "covenant" - so I'm not sure where you get "New Covenant" from - maybe from a book somewhere for I know you are a King James man - praise God!.

Here are the verse in Paul's epistles with the word covenant:

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. -
Dealing with Israel as a nation it apears

Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Nothing here

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Seems to be dealing with the law here.

Don't see where they are tied in with the body of Christ. But I'm easy to do business with - I'll listen.

Also - Here is Webster's 1828 on covenant..
1. A mutual consent or agreement of two or more persons, to do or to forbear some act or thing; a contract; stipulation. A covenant is created by deed in writing, sealed and executed; or it may be implied in the contract.
2. A writing containing the terms of agreement or contract between parties; or the clause of agreement in a deed containing the covenant.
3. In theology, the covenant of works, is that implied in the commands, prohibitions, and promises of God; the promise of God to man, that mans perfect obedience should entitle him to happiness. This do, and live; that do, and die.

God bless
 
AV, I used my KJV with Strongs! lol My KJV Concordance:

G1242

word = diathēkē
Total KJV Occurrences: 33

translated as covenant, 17 times
Luk_1:72, Act_3:25, Act_7:8, Rom_11:27, Gal_3:15, Gal_3:17, Heb_8:6, Heb_8:8-10 (4), Heb_9:4 (2), Heb_10:16, Heb_10:29, Heb_12:24, Heb_13:20

translated as testament, 13 times
Mat_26:28, Mar_14:24, Luk_22:20, 1Co_11:25, 2Co_3:6, 2Co_3:14, Heb_7:22, Heb_9:15-17 (4), Heb_9:20, Rev_11:19

translated as covenants, 3
Rom_9:4, Gal_4:24, Eph_2:12

Covenant and testament are the same word.

The eternal/everlasting covenant is made in the Godhead, not with us, I think Chafer taught that as well.
 
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

John Gill, the great Baptist preacher, wrote:
by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven: by which are intended not the whole universe and fabric of the world, all creatures and things, animate and inanimate, rational and irrational, which have been cursed for the sin of man, and have proved unfriendly to him, but, in consequence of redemption and reconciliation by Christ, will, as some think, in the time of the restitution of all things, be restored to their former state, and to their friendly use to mankind; nor elect men and elect angels, and their reconciliation together, for the apostle is not speaking of the reconciling of these things together, but of the reconciling of them to God, which though it is true of elect men, is not of elect angels, who never fell, and though they have confirming grace, yet not reconciling grace from Christ, which they never needed; nor Jews and Gentiles, for though it is true that God was in Christ reconciling the world of the Gentiles, as well as of the Jews to himself, and the chosen of God among both are actually reconciled to God by the death of Christ, yet the one are never called things in heaven, or the other things on earth, in distinction from, and opposition to each other; but rather all the elect of God are here meant, the family of God in heaven and in earth; all the saints that were then in heaven, when actual reconciliation was made by the blood of Christ, and who went thither upon the foot of peace, reconciliation, and redemption, to be made by his sacrifice and death; and all the chosen ones that were or should be on the face of the earth, until the end of time; all these were reconciled to God by Christ: and then the apostle proceeds particularly to mention the Colossians, as also being instances of this grace, good will, and pleasure of God by Christ.
Click to expand...

It is because of this everlasting covenant we are saved, where God's justice meets God's love at the Cross of Christ.
 
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