[_ Old Earth _] Andrea Bocelli and evolution

[Asyncritus]

I had the great pleasure of attanding a concert given by Mr Bocelli recently.

To say I was stunned at the sheer quality of his voice and singing is to put it mildly. The man is a genius, beyond any doubt.

Similarly, I heard Pavarotti in concert before he died, and was also stunned by his voice and singing. These 2 men are incomparable, and there has been nothing like them for the longest while.

I've only heard people like Joan Sutherland and Cecilia Bartolli on disc (and many others), and the same feeling about the sheer magnificence of their voices overtakes me.

Not to mention the composers, who wrote these sublime works that we can now enjoy and admire.

All of which provokes unfriendly thoughts about evolution in my mind.

The sheer stupidity of a theory which claims that such musical instruments as those voices, the minds of those composers which constructed the music, and our inbuilt ability to hear and enjoy the music jointly created by composer and peformer, are all the products of blind, brainless, purposeless chance, is preposterous beyond words.

Of what selective value are these incredible abilities? How does the ability to sing, play an instrument, appreciate music and the thousand and one related facilities and faculties which we all possess to varying degrees, relate to survival and natural selection?

Tha answer must be: there is no relationship at all.

How could a chimp ancestor evolve such sublimities?

The sound of music, the power of the lyrics to stir our hearts, minds and emotions - are all these the productions of mutations and natural selection?

Surely, reader, you can see how nonsensical the very proposition really is. can't you?

There is absolutely no connection between these things.

To think that bow-wow and yo-he-ho abilities can be transformed by mutations and natural selection into the mind of a Beethoven, his mighty Seventh Symphony, and the performance and enjoyment of the same, is to truly enter the realm of fantasy, just as much as imagining a man in a chicken suit learning to fly by running along the ground waving his forelimbs in the air!

Perhaps someone should write an opera about that, and call it 'The Magic Suit'! I guess that's what doing scales produces. Flights of fantasy,and soaring melodies!

Mozart would love it, I'm sure!

 

[Barbarian]

Um, so some people can sing in ways that are amazing to other people (sort of like some other animals can sing in ways that are amazing to them), and so evolution is false?

How... different. "Gee whiz, I'm really smart, and I can't figure out how this evolved, so evolution must be false."

Classic Async.

 

[cupid dave]

Um, so some people can sing in ways that are amazing to other people (sort of like some other animals can sing in ways that are amazing to them), and so evolution is false?

How... different. "Gee whiz, I'm really smart, and I can't figure out how this evolved, so evolution must be false."

Classic Async.

The concept of Musical lntelligence comes to mind.

Analogously, the Logical/Mathematical Intelligence which similarly revels in the beauty of Pure Mathematics is mnore dfifficult to explain or, generally, hard to experience for those with low ability in that area.

But Kinesthetic Intelliegence is foiund in the love of sports and the ability to appreciate excellence in sports like Golf or even Boxing for those who have participated in those sports.

I think the seven intelliegences are equally amazing events all in different kingdoms of Thought.

 

[Asyncritus]

Um, so some people can sing in ways that are amazing to other people (sort of like some other animals can sing in ways that are amazing to them), and so evolution is false?

That wasn't the point. You missed/ducked/avoided whatever again.

Since evolution is a theory of origins (remember Origin of Species?), it should be able to offer at least a desperate attempt at the origin of Mr Bocelli's (and quite a few others') abilities to sing, as well as the surrounding cloud of faculties which make music mean something universal to the human species.

Since it can't (apart from the usual nonsense about baboons beating sticks on the ground or on one another's heads) then it is a failed theory and should (once again, be abandoned).

It explains nothing of any significance in any satisfactory way.

And yes, I am quite smart, and evolution can't account for the origin of that either.

 

[Grazer]

So since evolution can't explain why she can sing so well its false?

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[cupid dave]

So since evolution can't explain why she can sing so well its false?

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

I think Musical Intelligence evolved from a refinement of the sense of Balance.
The sense of Balance, not limited to our posture or physical orientation, evolved over time as the Harmony Archetype.
This archtype was recognized by Jung, who, in 1930, said there seems too little of it in our inter-relationships, and so he inferred it may be one of the least dominant and most weakly expressed in general psychology.

That sense of Balance between (even the internal Archetypal relationships that drive our behavio),r became so dominant in some humans that it dwarfed the other thinking processes. (I am referring to Myers/Briggs Psychology here).
In other words, some people are a function of a dominating sense and drive for Balance in a general expression for Harmony, in all things, but certainly in music.

But because Harmony is founded upon the sense of Balance, in time that Archetype utilized the other six as an auxiliary, some more than others.
In some of us, the gifted, those other six archetypal associates became enhanced by the very nature of Balance, wherein the sense of Timing and sense of Hearing, especially, were incorporated.
The Self archetype, driven bythe sense of Hearing, was not dominated by the Harmony Archetype, but utilized and more equally associated with it.

Those other 6 archetypes are founded upon senses which relate to the music we Hear, physically in Dance, and we Feel Pleasure in it.
The Semantical effect of lyrics and the poetry involves the Self, for instance.

To quote the idea of the music of the spheres in the way Aristotle thought of our different levels of mentality is my general idea here.

What I am saying is that, as an example, church music is the song behind the very purpose inherent in Christianity, that even as we strive for Balance and Harmony inside our own mind, where we embrace and equalize the relationships between those several psychic parts,.... so, as men, are we supposed to do among themselves.
Christianity teaches men to love one another, rather than dominant.


The profound accompaniment of music and religion evidences some support for what I see as a theory of beauty.
I base this upon psychology and this unique genius we examine here at work, which brings all our senses to appreciate the results of working together.

That is what is behind an evolution of such ability.
This which has evolved as Harmony, has grown, matured, and developed over the time of the last 40,000 years of more and more civilization, and closer and closer contact in what is now one Global Village.

The seven senses all feed into the Cerebral Cortex and are examined, stored, remembered, and organized into a conglomeration of other parts in the puzzle (to the mind) about how to interpret the inputs.

Those other parts come from the other six sensory inputs.
They, likewise, have a special area of the Cerebral Cortex.
For each sensory input there is such a place that is like a small brain inside the brain.
Each of special Cortex Areas is a place in the brain that thinks only about each input, individually.

It is similar to what we see in dogs, where their sense of smell is a nerve ganglion in their nasal passages as big as a fist.

Working together because of Harmony, they are shepherded in genius so Balanced that every archetype, however dominante in each listener is thrilled

 

[Asyncritus]

So since evolution can't explain why she can sing so well its false?

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Yes.

As Hawking said, a single contrary fact can overthrow a whole great theory.

As I've been showing, there are innumerable things evolution can't explain, and in fact has no hope of ever explaining. Those facts are all contrary to the theory, it can't explain them, and therefore should be discarded, and a better theory put in its place, as I am doing.

 

[Barbarian]

As I've been showing, there are innumerable things evolution can't explain, and in fact has no hope of ever explaining.

You keep starting threads with that theme, but you always bail out of them when facts start showing up.

 

[cupid dave]

The sound of music, the power of the lyrics to stir our hearts, minds and emotions - are all these the productions of mutations and natural selection?

Surely, reader, you can see how nonsensical the very proposition really is. can't you?

There is absolutely no connection between these things.

Like Newton said, We stand on the shoulders of the great men who preceded us.

Newton was referring to what he had added to the growing, evolviung, pile of scientific knowledge.
But Mozart would have said it, I'm sure!


I was very impressed by the comments of a mathematician whose book I had been reading when he expressed is own awe and even reverence for the whole disicpline of Mathematics.
In his introduction and preface, he said that he and all the great mathematicais before him were merely discovering the rules of a vast and beautiful network of logical and rational associations that were bound by interelationships they described.
It was analogous to the network of the Natural Laws of this creation which ALWAYS work together like a sympathy, with the same musical beauty to which you refer.
One Law can not defy the others.

All play in concet together.

Here we see the expression in the field of Mathematics and Science of the same human ability to image God, asthese separate threads of beauty together, have made us capable to demonstrate our ever evolving expertise in demonstrating His Harmony with us.

 

[cupid dave]

We never really completed this idea set forth by Free.

Musical Intelligence can be so clearly perceived and appreciated by those people with a strong and dominant sense of Balance, that Harmony in everything is exemplified and expressed in the perfection of music.

My point was that others experience the beauty of their own strength in Mathematical/Logical Intelligence when they see mathematics expressing the whole world in symbolism that is a language in itself to them.
And the other five areas of Human Intelligent do likewise, as we see the excellence of our athletes on the field and courts display the beauty of there own ability.


But we are remiss in neglecting to express this same evidence and beauty found in the Conscience, which is the door to the Truth locked inside our Unconscious mind.
Conscience is measured in Wisdom, and the Book of Wisdom does great justice to singing out the praises for the Good Shepherd inside us all, but less than dominant in most all cases:


For wisdom is a kindly spirit,
but will not free blasphemers from the guilt of their words;
because God is witness of their inmost feelings,
and a true observer of their hearts, and a hearer of their tongues.
7 Because the spirit of the Lord has filled the world,
and that which holds all things together knows what is said,
8 therefore those who utter unrighteous things will not escape notice,
and justice, when it punishes, will not pass them by.
9 For inquiry will be made into the counsels of the ungodly,
and a report of their words will come to the Lord,
to convict them of their lawless deeds;
10 because a jealous ear hears all things,
and the sound of grumbling does not go unheard.
11 Beware then of useless grumbling,
and keep your tongue from slander;
because no secret word is without result,[a]
and a lying mouth destroys the soul.