music during prayers and the reading of God's word

[miamited]

Hi guys, So, I've had this long running distaste for music being played during prayer. For me, it's a distraction. Especially if it's a song that I like. My mind can't help but go following the music rather than what's being said as the prayer. Now, my fellowship has recently begun playing music, and I'm speaking here of just soft background piano music, during the reading or God's word portion of our service. Again, same distraction. I liken it to be like elevator music, which is designed to entertain the mind while traveling quietly with a group going through the floors as the elevator moves up and down. I have no problem with that, although even the building operators nowadays seem to have stopped that practice. I honestly can't recall the last time I was in an elevator that had such a service, but I live in a small town without many elevators so I could be wrong on that. Does anyone have a testimony as to an elevator that plays music?

But anyway, I looked up the practice and found a site called worshipmatters.com and it gives four examples in the Scriptures where music during a particular service was used that apparently is what this practice is today based on. 1 Chron. 25 beginning in vs 1, 1 Samuel 10 beginning in vs 5, and finally 2 Kings 3 beginning in vs 14. I looked them up. These are all about playing music as people were prophesying, not praying. Finally, it referenced Ephesians 5 beginning in vs 18. This discusses believers generally speaking to one another through psalms, hymns and songs. Still doesn't seem to be addressing the act of praying. In fact, this passage speaks of the music coming through the Spirit. Then it speaks of singing and making music from your heart to the Lord. That's the way I like to use music. Singing and making music from my heart to the Lord. But not so much in times of praying.

So, I'm just curious and would like to find out if others find this practice somewhat annoying, and yes, I understand there may be some that it isn't something to argue over and I'm not trying to start an argument. Just a discussion on the matter. If anyone is willing, how do you feel personally about background music being played during times of prayer and Scripture reading? I mean, if it's to make us behave more spiritually, then why shouldn't we do it throughout the teaching, also? Anything to offer?

 

[WIP]

Hi guys, So, I've had this long running distaste for music being played during prayer. For me, it's a distraction. Especially if it's a song that I like. My mind can't help but go following the music rather than what's being said as the prayer. Now, my fellowship has recently begun playing music, and I'm speaking here of just soft background piano music, during the reading or God's word portion of our service. Again, same distraction. I liken it to be like elevator music, which is designed to entertain the mind while traveling quietly with a group going through the floors as the elevator moves up and down. I have no problem with that, although even the building operators nowadays seem to have stopped that practice. I honestly can't recall the last time I was in an elevator that had such a service, but I live in a small town without many elevators so I could be wrong on that. Does anyone have a testimony as to an elevator that plays music?

But anyway, I looked up the practice and found a site called worshipmatters.com and it gives four examples in the Scriptures where music during a particular service was used that apparently is what this practice is today based on. 1 Chron. 25 beginning in vs 1, 1 Samuel 10 beginning in vs 5, and finally 2 Kings 3 beginning in vs 14. I looked them up. These are all about playing music as people were prophesying, not praying. Finally, it referenced Ephesians 5 beginning in vs 18. This discusses believers generally speaking to one another through psalms, hymns and songs. Still doesn't seem to be addressing the act of praying. In fact, this passage speaks of the music coming through the Spirit. Then it speaks of singing and making music from your heart to the Lord. That's the way I like to use music. Singing and making music from my heart to the Lord. But not so much in times of praying.

So, I'm just curious and would like to find out if others find this practice somewhat annoying, and yes, I understand there may be some that it isn't something to argue over and I'm not trying to start an argument. Just a discussion on the matter. If anyone is willing, how do you feel personally about background music being played during times of prayer and Scripture reading? I mean, if it's to make us behave more spiritually, then why shouldn't we do it throughout the teaching, also? Anything to offer?

I agree. Prayer through music is one thing and that is what I believe hymns and psalms are but prayer time with God personally is something entirely different.

 

[Who Me]

Talk to the minister about why must every reading and 3very pray be accompanied by elevator music.
Do ask what the connection between his prayer/reading was with what ever hymn music was being played, demonstrate by giving the wrong understanding of said prayer or reading.

 

[miamited]

Talk to the minister about why must every reading and 3very pray be accompanied by elevator music.
Do ask what the connection between his prayer/reading was with what ever hymn music was being played, demonstrate by giving the wrong understanding of said prayer or reading.

I have mentioned it to the pastor, but I did have a discussion about it with the music director. I also pulled the pastor aside yesterday and mentioned that I didn't think getting politics involved in the business of the fellowship of believers was a good plan. His response to me was something along the lines that it was going to be.

Sadly, and I may have to abandon the Southern Baptist aligned fellowships altogether, but there seems to be this undercurrent now that believers assignment from God is to go out and condemn the world of its sin and tell their followers who to vote for. I am amazed honestly of all the support that has poured forth from the 'church' in this matter.

 

[Whatever]

I have mentioned it to the pastor, but I did have a discussion about it with the music director. I also pulled the pastor aside yesterday and mentioned that I didn't think getting politics involved in the business of the fellowship of believers was a good plan.

This seems to be a ploy (An action calculated to frustrate an opponent or gain an advantage indirectly or deviously; a maneuver) to not having to deal with things - just label it politics.

 

[miamited]

This seems to be a ploy (An action calculated to frustrate an opponent or gain an advantage indirectly or deviously; a maneuver) to not having to deal with things - just label it politics.

Hi Whatever

I'm sorry, but 'what' seems to be a ploy? My asking or the pastor's response? Or the issue of the fellowship getting involved in politics? I'm not clear on what you're referring to as a 'ploy'.

 

[Whatever]

I'm sorry, but 'what' seems to be a ploy? My asking or the pastor's response? Or the issue of the fellowship getting involved in politics? I'm not clear on what you're referring to as a 'ploy'.

The pastor using politics as a reason to not have to deal with it.

I wondered if a Sunday School teacher was teaching witchcraft in her class and you brought it up to him if he would say "he didn't think getting politics involved in the business of the fellowship of believers was a good plan."

A person could label anything as "politics" as a way to avoid dealing with it.

 

[miamited]

The pastor using politics as a reason to not have to deal with it.

Hi Whatever
Again, to not have to deal with 'what'. What is it? I believe that many fellowships are allowing politics to be a battle cry to their fellowships. I'm not clear on what 'it' is that you're saying the introduction of politics, or the pastors response to me concerning the subject is referring to.

I wondered if a Sunday School teacher was teaching witchcraft in her class and you brought it up to him if he would say "he didn't think getting politics involved in the business of the fellowship of believers was a good plan."

There are several errors in that statement. You start off seeming to say that 'you' wondered about a SS teacher teaching witchcraft and referred to the teacher as a 'her'. Your next words were that 'you' brought it up, seeming to be referring to me, and now refer t o the person as a 'he'. Then say that 'he' didn't think that getting politics involved in the business of the fellowship was a good plan, which is a statement that I made. I'm the one who told the pastor that I didn't think getting a fellowship involved in politics was a good plan. Maybe you could write out what you intend to convey in that statement a little more clearly.

 

[Whatever]

Since this is the fellowship lounge and not the debate lounge, I don't know what to say.

What I am saying has nothing to do with you but with the pastor. It seems that he does not want to deal with situation X and thus labels it "politics" and off limits.

Situation X could be anything he simply wants to avoid.

 

[Who Me]

Just keep on commenting how much you enjoyed that song, but what relevance did it have to the sermon!
Or singing whatever song is being played.

 

[miamited]

Or singing whatever song is being played.

Thanks Who Me, but I don't think my starting to sing during a prayer is going to be well received and I'm not interested in making some big show about it. Bottom line, there are plenty of fellowships of believers in my area and I can just go to another one. While I enjoy worship and the friendships that I have made in this fellowship over the last four years, I don't feel any particular allegiance to this particular fellowship if things seem to be going in a careless direction. Last Sunday, you know, new years and all that, he spoke of the future plans and I really was surprised that he feels that the fellowship should somehow be more involved in politics. And I've come to find out that it's a very, very strong Republican leaning group. I keep getting funny looks because I didn't vote for their preferred candidate.

And, as I'm watching what's going on in the news today, I'm confident that it was the right election choice.

 

[Tenchi]

So, I'm just curious and would like to find out if others find this practice somewhat annoying, and yes, I understand there may be some that it isn't something to argue over and I'm not trying to start an argument. Just a discussion on the matter. If anyone is willing, how do you feel personally about background music being played during times of prayer and Scripture reading? I mean, if it's to make us behave more spiritually, then why shouldn't we do it throughout the teaching, also? Anything to offer?

Actually, I find that the more sensual is the approach of a local church community to their "spirituality," the more sense-stimulating things are used to "shore up" spiritual activities, like prayer. Mainly, it seems to me, this is because sensual believers mistake emotionality for spirituality: If they are moved emotionally, they are having a spiritual experience (and the more emotional the experience, the more spiritual it is). This isn't at all biblical, however. In fact, this sensual spirituality is actually, I think, very fleshly and leads away from God rather than toward Him (Galatians 5:17; Galatians 6:7-8; Romans 7:18; Romans 8:5-8, etc.).

Obviously, I don't have a problem with music in praise and worship of God. It is, after all, explicitly prescribed in the Bible as part of a believer's glorification of God and as a vehicle for spiritual instruction and admonishment. The problem with music, in particular, in spiritual activity is demonstrated by the following question: Does the "spiritual" song you hear that moves you to tears do the same without the music? Is the divine truth of the song (if there's any actually in the song) alone sufficient to lift your mind and heart to God such that you are moved emotionally? Typically, the answer is no. So, then, what is activating the emotion? Not God's Truth. If this is the case, if the worshipper in song is emotionally moved by the music rather than by God's Truth, how spiritual is their emotion? Not very, in my view and experience.

I've observed that the more emotional a believer desires to be in their worship of God, the more sensual and the less concerned about God's Truth they are. They want "the feels," to be stimulated emotionally, rather than to be convicted by God, and taught by Him, and changed. But lasting transformation rather than momentary emotion is what God is aimed at in our lives. He intends we should be ever-more like Christ, not hyped-up emotionally by sensual (that is senses-oriented) stimulation (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 4:7-11; Galatians 5:22-23).

Particularly in prayer, quietness and stillness is vital, I think. Certainly, if a believer has grown to need background music, or incense, or candles and icons, as they pray, they ought to understand that their prayer is growing dangerously sensual.

Psalm 4:3-4
3 But know that the LORD has set apart the godly for himself; the LORD hears when I call to him.
4 Be angry, and do not sin; ponder in your own hearts on your beds, and be silent. Selah

Psalm 46:10
10 “Be still, and know that I am God...

Isaiah 30:15
15 For thus said the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel, “In returning and rest you shall be saved; in quietness and in trust shall be your strength.”...

Ecclesiastes 9:17
17 The words of the wise heard in quiet are better than the shouting of a ruler among fools.

1 Peter 3:4
4 but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious.

The World offers "sound and fury signifying nothing"; the World panders grossly and unapologetically to our physical senses, urging us to gorge on sensual stimulation, which we can see in the various types of "porn" offered now on t.v.: food porn, drama porn, violence porn, catastrophe porn, fashion porn, as well as the sexual stuff. How opposite the World is the flesh-denying spiritual life into which God calls His children! He offers to them quietness, stillness, rest, peace and stability, not the sensual froth and frenzy of modern, western pop-culture.

But the World has got into the Church in the West in a big way, and inordinate sensuality is commonplace in "Christian" worship. I've seen "Christian" youth holding raves in church sanctuaries, fog, flashing lights, animal costumes and wild dancing to deafening music passing for "worship" of God. I've seen "Christians" treating the Holy Spirit like a bong, or bottle of booze, or a hot-tub, in sessions of blasphemous pretending, behaving as though the Spirit's made them drunk, or high, or is giving them "warm oozies." Yuck. But dim lighting, theater seating and hundreds of thousands of dollars in audio equipment to facilitate "concerts of praise" is just as bad, in my view. None of this stuff was present in the Early Church through which God transformed the evil, pagan empire of Rome. But, then, the Church was led, not by men with seminary credentials and personal charisma, but who were filled with the Spirit, and was constituted primarily of folk who were not luxury Christians but, many times, martyrs for the faith, like Stephen.

Often, now, Christians in North America limp out of the Church, damaged and exhausted by its worldly sensuality and fleshly adherents, looking for a safe harbor spiritually where the "still, small voice" of God can be truly heard. But this type of destructive sensuality in the Church begins with small concessions to sensuality, seemingly harmless "accompaniments" to spiritual activity that make it "nice," "more pleasant," more "powerful," but which are actually subtle, fleshly dilutions of genuine spirituality.

Anyway, as you can probably tell, this area is one of high concern to me as I work in ministry within the very sensualized, modern, North American Church.

 

[miamited]

Hi Tenchi

Anyway, as you can probably tell, this area is one of high concern to me as I work in ministry within the very sensualized, modern, North American Church.

Well, I tend to agree with your exposition on the matter. I joined up with this fellowship about 4 years ago when I moved into the area. I found the overall worship music program to be wonderful and the teaching generally accurate, as I understand the Scriptures.

But from the beginning I was bothered by the music playing during prayer time. I did speak to both the pastor and the music director about my concerns. My second issue came up when I was speaking with the pastor while serving in a ministry effort of the fellowship and I asked him in conversation how old he believed the universe to have existed. His response was, "Oh, I think it's likely been around for millions of years." But now, here just recently, in the last 3 months since the music minister left, they've begun playing the music during the Scripture reading where we all stand up as the Scriptures are read. And just last week, in going over the pastor's vision for the future, he listed that he wanted to have us get more involved in political issues. After the service I went up to him and said that I wasn't really comfortable with that specific piece of his 'view for the future' and he just said, "Well, that's the way it's going to be." And I'm concerned that it may actually be something that the SBA is asking of their affiliated fellowships. I know that Robert Jeffress of the First Baptist mega-church in Dallas has been very vociferous in his support of political leaders as have Franklin Graham and Rick Warren, also. Even holding political rallies at their facilities.

For me, the sanctuary where God's people gather to worship Him should be all and only about Him, His Son and Spirit. Prayer time and Scripture reading should be done in silence, as far as any background music playing. Oh, it's fine when we hold communion, I suppose to have music as the emblems are being passed throughout the people. But even then, I try to be in prayer and reflection, as Jesus asked, of the wonderful, sacrificial work that he did in being beaten and spat upon and then dying a criminal's death on that Roman cross beam. I find myself reflecting on 'why' I'm holding that cup of red juice to represent his blood and that wafer to represent his body. What it really represents, not just some rote thing that we do.

I have no problem with teaching of the ills of abortion and the gay agenda, but to actively push for a certain person that is running for an elected office within the leadership of a fellowship, I find that troubling. But thanks for your words on the matter. God bless.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hi guys, So, I've had this long running distaste for music being played during prayer. For me, it's a distraction. Especially if it's a song that I like. My mind can't help but go following the music rather than what's being said as the prayer. Now, my fellowship has recently begun playing music, and I'm speaking here of just soft background piano music, during the reading or God's word portion of our service. Again, same distraction. I liken it to be like elevator music, which is designed to entertain the mind while traveling quietly with a group going through the floors as the elevator moves up and down. I have no problem with that, although even the building operators nowadays seem to have stopped that practice. I honestly can't recall the last time I was in an elevator that had such a service, but I live in a small town without many elevators so I could be wrong on that. Does anyone have a testimony as to an elevator that plays music?

But anyway, I looked up the practice and found a site called worshipmatters.com and it gives four examples in the Scriptures where music during a particular service was used that apparently is what this practice is today based on. 1 Chron. 25 beginning in vs 1, 1 Samuel 10 beginning in vs 5, and finally 2 Kings 3 beginning in vs 14. I looked them up. These are all about playing music as people were prophesying, not praying. Finally, it referenced Ephesians 5 beginning in vs 18. This discusses believers generally speaking to one another through psalms, hymns and songs. Still doesn't seem to be addressing the act of praying. In fact, this passage speaks of the music coming through the Spirit. Then it speaks of singing and making music from your heart to the Lord. That's the way I like to use music. Singing and making music from my heart to the Lord. But not so much in times of praying.

So, I'm just curious and would like to find out if others find this practice somewhat annoying, and yes, I understand there may be some that it isn't something to argue over and I'm not trying to start an argument. Just a discussion on the matter. If anyone is willing, how do you feel personally about background music being played during times of prayer and Scripture reading? I mean, if it's to make us behave more spiritually, then why shouldn't we do it throughout the teaching, also? Anything to offer?

I suppose it depends upon how loud, and what kind of music. I've been playing an instrumental worship DVD while I pray lately, and I think it helps. I know some of the songs so the lyrics are like subliminally there, but they are not at the forefront of my consciousness. Just that I have some spiritual ambiance in the room while praying.

But maybe you are talking only about corporate prayer rather than private prayer? Not sure.

 

[Tenchi]

But from the beginning I was bothered by the music playing during prayer time. I did speak to both the pastor and the music director about my concerns.

Can you imagine every time you talked with your spouse, you turned on some background music in order to do so? She'd think that strange, I'm sure, and maybe even irritating. And imagine if you became so accustomed to having music playing while you're talking to your wife that it felt weird and even uncomfortable not to have it playing. I know Christians who are like this when it comes to their interactions with God. They just don't "feel good" about unadorned interaction with Him. They want - actually, need - bells and whistles around their "spiritual activity" and get pretty bent out of shape if they don't get it. It's God-plus, though they don't see usually that this is so. All by Himself, meeting Him in quietness and stillness, God is not enough. He's boring, even, to the sensual Christian.

I ran a martial art training club (i.e. dojo) for over twenty years. Among the many who trained with me, there were those who were training because of the environment and japanese culture that surrounded the training. There were gis, belts and hakamas to wear (training outfits), and ritual bowing, and japanese words and phrases, and tatami mats on which we trained. We used swords and staffs in training, too. All these things, though, were peripheral to the jujitsu I was teaching and practicing. The core of what I was doing was the corpus of techniques that constituted the art. These were the really important thing. But, some who trained didn't think so. What they were most interested in wasn't the art but the "flavor" of training, the peripheral stuff, that provoked in them romantic notions of being like an ancient samurai, and gave their training a certain Far East mystique, and made them feel special.

When I'd take training out-of-doors and all the peripherals were absent, these folks just wouldn't train. "It doesn't feel right," they'd say to me, by which they meant, "I'm really only training for the feelings of specialness I get when I wear my training uniform, and hold a katana (sword) in my hand, and stand on tatami mats in a dojo." Christians, too, can be like this when it comes to knowing and walking with God. They want, as I said, "the feels," they want sensual and emotional stimulation, not God, really. And you can tell this is so when they don't like to pray, or meditate on Scripture, or sing praises to God without lots of "ambience": soft music, candles, incense, mood lighting, etc.

For me, the sanctuary where God's people gather to worship Him should be all and only about Him, His Son and Spirit.

Yup. Definitely.

And just last week, in going over the pastor's vision for the future, he listed that he wanted to have us get more involved in political issues. After the service I went up to him and said that I wasn't really comfortable with that specific piece of his 'view for the future' and he just said, "Well, that's the way it's going to be."

??? Clearly, you're participation in the church isn't important to him and/or he believes himself above having to justify his decisions to you. Neither of these attitudes in a pastor is right. In fact, they are very dangerous spiritually. What other things might he decide unilaterally to institute in the church? If he doesn't answer to his congregants, anything he wants.

I have no problem with teaching of the ills of abortion and the gay agenda, but to actively push for a certain person that is running for an elected office within the leadership of a fellowship, I find that troubling.

Yes, me too. I know of no politician presently who is not a lying rotter, in the politics racket only for power and profit. No pastor, then, ought to be dictating to his congregants their fidelity to a particular politician. As you said, some moral issues have been made political and Christians ought to refuse this politicization, standing against abortion, and the LGBTQ agenda, and Woke "progressivism" in whatever political party these things are found.

 

[miamited]

Hey Tenchi

Well, just as an aside and I don't know how you feel about it, but as I was leaving the worship service and I'd already made my comment to the pastor, I passed by our outreach leader. He sets up a lot of programs where we go out into the community and do 'church' stuff within the community. And I said to him, "You know, when I vote for someone to fill a position, I vote for the person. I don't vote for the party. As I look at the two major contenders that were in the arena, I find that Mrs. Harris shows a much more 'christian' history in her life. I mean she's married to a Jew, and I don't know if he's a Messianic Jew or not, but she herself is active in a local fellowship of believers and I think has been for a lot of her life. I believe that she understands what it means that believers know that they are sinners saved by the grace of God. When I look at the other contender, the only thing I can recall of his position on faith and God is that he's said publicly that he doesn't need forgiveness. That he's never felt like he's done anything wrong. I know that he is a 'member' of a fellowship, but I don't think he ever participates.

So, based on just the person, not the party, I found Mrs. Harris to be the one who was more in line with christian values. Here's what I found as regards public records of Kamala Harris' faith:

How Kamala Harris And Doug Emhoff Bond Over Their Different Religions

“Kamala has connected me more deeply to my faith.”

www.womenshealthmag.com

vs.

Trump: 'Why Do I Have to Repent or Ask for Forgiveness If I Am Not Making Mistakes?' (Video)

Following Donald Trump s appearance last week at the Family Leadership Summit in Iowa, CNN s Anderson Cooper sought out clarification on Trump s assertion that he s unsure if he ever asks God s

www.christianpost.com

So yes, my faith in God said that I should vote for Mrs. Harris. And he looked at me like I had three heads. So, I've got a gut feeling where this new push to 'politicize' this fellowship with which I participate is going to be going. We're going to turn into the kind of fellowship that Robert Jeffress and Franklin Graham and Rick Warren have raised up. That's not for me. I vote. I participate in our election process. But I try not to mix worldly politics with the time spent in the place of worship to my Father who is head over all. But I don't believe that God doesn't want us to participate in the election process of our government, no matter that many government agendas may not be in keeping with His commands to us. And from what I'm reading these days, I 'm pretty anxious about where we're going to end up, as a nation, in four years or less.

God bless you and I'm just letting off a bit. I know that we aren't supposed to get into political discussions so I'm stopping here. That's another point though, even CF has banned politics on its boards.