another fallen megachurch pastor

[Christ_empowered]

I'm not trying to gloat over someone's fall or anything...but I do think its probably the best thing for him, his family, and the congregation.

check it out: http://www.christianpost.com/news/p...iatric-care-newspring-church-confirms-166260/

I've had some qualms about this place in the past. If you feel like it, you can do some cursory internet digging and you'll see some of the things I"m thinking of, more than likely. My dad really liked this guy, and that...bothered me.

I dunno. I just got this weird feeling that what was being preached wasn't always in line with Scripture, which is why I didn't want to go with my dad to this place. I know the term "bad vibes" isn't Scriptural, but...I dunno...maybe gut-level discernment (?).

My dad never got super involved (Praise God), but I do wonder how this is going to affect his outlook on church, faith, etc.

I'm wondering is mega-churches aren't more prone to scandal and such than small to medium sized churches. What do y'all think? I think...sometimes, I think there can be more ego in big churches. I also think a church can get so big that its not a church in the NT sense of the word.

Anyway...just thought I'd post this and get a little feed back on it. I pray for the Noble family and the people of NewSpring, but...I also pray that God uses this for His own glory and good of those who are called.

 

[reba]

I have known small town preachers who fail .... having affairs.. borrowing money and not paying the bills ... then the higher up covering up for them.. The big churches get the press..

 

[turnorburn]

Get used to it "We Are Sinners" Saved by Grace...

I Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

Only in this guys life it was alcohol...

 

[turnorburn]

Sorry for the rant.. it seems lately every time i log in there is nothing but accusations be thrown around..

 

[Christ_empowered]

you didn't rant. I dunno....I have/had some qualms with this place. They briefly had a 90 day money back guarantee on tithing, which struck me as...not good, lol. The 10 Promises instead of the 10 Commandments. Playing Highway to Hell for Easter. Some of it was good, though...cell groups, study groups; some of the answers Noble would give to hot button issues were well thought out and articulate.

There was a mini-scandal with a local professor's family being harassed by new spring staff and such...it resulted in an out of court settlement. I dunno. I just...had concerns...then again, my primary exposure to the core of Protestant Christianity was thru old school Pentecostals, and they're not without controversy, either.

 

[reba]

sheesh

 

[JohnDB]

There is a heavy burden placed upon those in ministry.
Children actually complicate the matter.
Everyone is full of advice and condemnation for every little thing you do or choice you make.

It's enough to make a person feel like they are in metaphorical quicksand. You are sinking and every move only makes you sink faster.

The stress of these positions isn't for everyone and even if you feel called for a time most never know when that calling ends.
I can understand the reluctance of giving up a position. Especially when it's difficult to get one, difficult to hold, difficult to succeed.
The Satan inside of each one of us always desires to sneak out and show itself regardless of how holy we think we have become. Especially when tired, frustrated or in need of something. (Not wants like a new airplane)

The whole family takes the burden when in ministry. I've seen it destroy many good families and children. The Catholics have a policy of celibacy....understandible considering the family toll. (Don't know as I agree with that either)

But it's a needed job to lead congregations. Don't know as the job is one i would recommend to anyone.

 

[Eugene]

.
That's too bad, and our God of all grace can heal him just as He is doing in us.
I hope his brethren can take the following advice of Jesus by revelation through Paul.

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such
an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

 

[Taniesh]

When a pastor puts themself in the position of leadership it is a high demand responsibility therefore pressuring them to comply to the politics of church activity or movement. Pastors and preachers today are coming out of universities instead of being truly ordained of God. This poses a problem not only for the preacher it does so with those they lead. University taught preachers, church leaders, etc are taught how to talk to congregation to keep people coming back to their church. Anymore it is not about getting saved, searching the scriptures yourself, asking The Holy Spirit to guide you, then after you are developed enough go out and testify to anyone. Now it is about how many shows up in church, how much people donate, how to appear righteous, sign up with world and incorporate technology into church, statistics, etc. I knew a preacher that often said during service how much he would like to be another preacher whom he thought highly off because his favored preacher captured alot of people and baptized umpteen times. The safest way I found is to study scripture myself with help from The Holy Spirit and share my testimony as often as possible no matter where I am.

 

[reba]

I have not known one organization that has not fallen. most to greed and sex..

 

[Christ_empowered]

I shared this link because I've had some...concerns...with this place and what they teach and such. I dunno. I'm wondering now if NewSpring is going to collapse without the dynamic leader who brought in so many people. Maybe, maybe not. We shall see...

I also shared this because it seems that --every-- church, every denomination, has problems with both leaders and the congregants. Churches are made up of human beings, after all, and we're usually pretty messed up. That's what church is for, I think. Problem is...well, I think its good to pray for and then use/apply discernment, but when are you discerning, and when is one hypocritically judging, or being mean-spirited and calling it "contending for the truth," or whatever? Because I've noticed that some of the harshest critics of Christians...are other Christians. The bigger, more popular a leader and/or group becomes, the more other Christians come out and attack, usually with carefully selected Bible verses to prop up their position (and tear down the opposition). This guy--Perry Noble--has tons of fans and lots of critics. Look on the internet, and you'll even see people tearing into Billy Graham (I thought he was the Protestant equivalent of a living saint, lol).

OK. I've rambled a bit. I just think...well, I just think its rough all around. I've been too judgmental of the NewSpring folks and their mission, but I still have some "issues" with them. This incident didn't bring me any joy or anything, but it did make me more suspicious of them, and I don't know if that's right or wrong.

 

[Taniesh]

There is a difference between judging another or warning others of deception. We are told to be watchful because there are wolves in sheeps clothing. Also when masses think highly of any preacher that preacher or organization is placing themselves in the limelight. John the baptist said "I must decrease and He must increase". That was a very humbling statement for John to say. So by that example we can know it is not how big we can look in the eyes of the masses rather how are we doing in the eyes of God. It is sad to attack one another when we should be uplifting one another in love. The most dangerous thing on earth would seem to be evil and those things attached to it but actually the most dangerous is distortion of truth by those who think they are right without proving it. To question another's belief is like the most offensive thing that a person becomes so personal over then it rolls down hill from there. There is no talking it over and listening to each others ideas to come up with a solution or conclusion. More often than not if a person says something that doesn't match the status pro quo of church system then they are shunned or claimed to be a trouble maker. Ironic how it works that way.

 

[Edward]

I dunno. I just got this weird feeling that what was being preached wasn't always in line with Scripture, which is why I didn't want to go with my dad to this place. I know the term "bad vibes" isn't Scriptural, but...I dunno...maybe gut-level discernment (?).

Bad vibes is scriptural in that you are a spirit being and are to be led of the Spirit...your spirit man has spiritaul senses, and I think that the ability to feel bad vibes is in fact one of these senses.

Call it what you will, but understand what it is.

 

[Kidron]

I'm wondering is mega-churches aren't more prone to scandal and such than small to medium sized churches.

-
I have no idea what type of "denomination" this is......so, i dont know anything about their "doctrines", but i can realize as a human being that 30,000 church members is quite a responsibility that might overwhelm = a drinking problem.

 

[Taniesh]

Edward
Kidron that is alot of people to manage. Why don't all those people go out and evangelize or testify then maybe some may not have to feel the fires of torment. Christ true church is not to be contained in a building while the lost is wondering on the outside.

 

[Kidron]

Edward
Kidron that is alot of people to manage. Why don't all those people go out and evangelize or testify then maybe some may not have to feel the fires of torment. Christ true church is not to be contained in a building while the lost is wondering on the outside.

-
Absolutely.
The real work of the "body of Christ" happens outside the walls of your local Church building.
Each of use is called to "fish and disciple" and not just the "pulpit".

 

[Taniesh]

Kidron I have heard preachers say disciple others but the only one that can make disciples is Jesus but we can fish.

 

[Wrg1405]

Genesis 9:20-21
After the flood, Noah began to cultivate the ground, and he planted a vineyard. One day he drank some wine he had made, and he became drunk and lay naked inside his tent.

Genesis 19:33
So they made their father (Lot) drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

2 Peter 2:6-7
and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked.

I reckon If I was Noah, being on the ark for a year, knowing that everything was being wiped out, people that he knew and would have talked to, I would probably want something to relieve the pain of knowing that and possibly seeing people drowning and dying.

If I was Lot and looked back and saw my wife perish and someone said "Have a few drinks it will take your mind off it" I would probably would have a few drinks.

Let's not forget that these people were just as emotional and susceptible to pain and anguish that they saw and experiences as we are. They didn't have medication, psychiatrists, tv, shopping malls etc to escape the pain and anguish.

Let's be honest. How many of us can hold our hands up and say "I would have been different, I am different"

I read the link in the OP. Founding pastor of a church that has 30,000 attending. I've not researched what they teach,
but fellow Elders have felt it correct to discipline this man and the full details have not been exposed and I thank God (read the full story of Noah for my point) what I do get from it though is that this man realises he is not perfect, and even says if you think you are don't come to this church cause this pastor is going to disappoint you. I do think however he has lost his focus, his focus was 100,000 members. That is sad, that's just numbers. I do get that, I lead a midweek group of 12 people I'm used to get gutted if only 5 turn up.

That's the wrong focus. If the focus is on numbers then it's not on Christ and it's not loving the numbers that Chris has given us. Jesus himself said "Where two or more are gathered I'm there also" so if one in my group turns up that is two and Jesus is with us.

Let's not hang this man out but let us lift him up. Yes he has gone down a path that is not level, yes his focus is wrong. Pray the following for this man and his family.

Jeremiah 31:9
Tears of joy will stream down their faces,
and I will lead them home with great care.
They will walk beside quiet streams
and on smooth paths where they will not stumble.
For I am Israel’s father,
and Ephraim is my oldest child.

 

[smaller]

you didn't rant. I dunno....I have/had some qualms with this place. They briefly had a 90 day money back guarantee on tithing, which struck me as...not good, lol. The 10 Promises instead of the 10 Commandments. Playing Highway to Hell for Easter. Some of it was good, though...cell groups, study groups; some of the answers Noble would give to hot button issues were well thought out and articulate.

There was a mini-scandal with a local professor's family being harassed by new spring staff and such...it resulted in an out of court settlement. I dunno. I just...had concerns...then again, my primary exposure to the core of Protestant Christianity was thru old school Pentecostals, and they're not without controversy, either.

Did he stump against alcohol in the pulpit? How often do we see pastoral hypocrites, exposed for what they are? Think big anti-gay fallen in homosexual scandal ridden preacher Ted Haggerty. Still trying to play the christian game, no less, and get back into the "ministry."

 

[JohnDB]

Did he stump against alcohol in the pulpit? How often do we see pastoral hypocrites, exposed for what they are? Think big anti-gay fallen in homosexual scandal ridden preacher Ted Haggerty. Still trying to play the christian game, no less, and get back into the "ministry."

Ted Haggerd is almost 60?
Sitting on the Chapman's seat on the Evangelical alliance (145,000 congregations) and leading a huge mega church...and now having issues finding a job.
No one will touch him with a ten foot pole. I know I want nothing to do with him.

And I never liked his histrionics anyway. Still don't.
Pew climbing is an automatic NO in my book. So is literal Bible pounding.