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Bible Study Answer This Verse Please

Rollo Tamasi

Rollo Tamasi

Warrior for Christ
Member
Mark 16:16a;
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

It sounds as though one must be baptized in order to be saved.
If you believe this is not true, then can you explain what this verse is saying?
 
It has to be true for it's in the Word. On the other hand (if I read your premise right), it doesn't say anyone who believes but is not baptized wont be saved. Remember the thief on the cross that Jesus saved? He wasn't baptized.
 
Edward said:
It has to be true for it's in the Word. On the other hand (if I read your premise right), it doesn't say anyone who believes but is not baptized wont be saved. Remember the thief on the cross that Jesus saved? He wasn't baptized.
Click to expand...
That's a very good point and a very good answer from a very good man of God.
 
Assuming you are referring to water baptism.

bap·tize
ˈbapˌtīz,bapˈtīz/
verb
past tense: baptised; past participle: baptised
administer baptism to (someone); christen.
"he was baptized Joshua"
synonyms: christen
"he was baptized as a baby"

  • admit (someone) into a specified church by baptism.
    "Mark had been baptized a Catholic"
    synonyms: admit, initiate, enroll, recruit, convert
    "they were baptized into the church"
  • give a name or nickname to.
    "he baptized the science of narrative “narratology.”"
    synonyms: name, give the name, call, dub;
    formaldenominate
    "he was baptized Enoch"

FWIW, nothing there mentions water and I'm not positive but it's possible Jesus was thinking along those lines. Not so much the physical process but what that ceremony really meant.

Luke 3:16 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
 
Kenny_ms said:
Assuming you are referring to water baptism.

bap·tize
ˈbapˌtīz,bapˈtīz/
verb
past tense: baptised; past participle: baptised
administer baptism to (someone); christen.
"he was baptized Joshua"
synonyms: christen
"he was baptized as a baby"

  • admit (someone) into a specified church by baptism.
    "Mark had been baptized a Catholic"
    synonyms: admit, initiate, enroll, recruit, convert
    "they were baptized into the church"
  • give a name or nickname to.
    "he baptized the science of narrative “narratology.”"
    synonyms: name, give the name, call, dub;
    formaldenominate
    "he was baptized Enoch"

FWIW, nothing there mentions water and I'm not positive but it's possible Jesus was thinking along those lines. Not so much the physical process but what that ceremony really meant.

Luke 3:16 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Click to expand...

Hey, that's a good point. The Holy Spirit could very well have meant the scripture to mean more than water baptism. i think I recall a scripture wherein we are all to be...purified with fire, yes? Maybe this is baptism by fire?
 
"For what it's worth" and where is that Glossary?

I've needed it often here. :)
 
Well, it's right up there under my nose, I just needed the nudge to find it.
 
14 Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned
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This portion of one verse of a complete paragraph of a chapter (and I really could go on and on) is such a great example of how heresies grow. Words are useless without context as are portions of statements without their context.

This is a more eloquent wording of the Great Commission that is expressed in verses 18 through 20 of chapter 28. I have witnessed more than one person teach that any that get dunked are saved and any that do not get dunked are not saved, completely ignoring the context and drawing this portion of verse 16 (a) completely out of it's context.
 
Kenny_ms said:
Assuming you are referring to water baptism.

bap·tize
ˈbapˌtīz,bapˈtīz/
verb
past tense: baptised; past participle: baptised
administer baptism to (someone); christen.
"he was baptized Joshua"
synonyms: christen
"he was baptized as a baby"

  • admit (someone) into a specified church by baptism.
    "Mark had been baptized a Catholic"
    synonyms: admit, initiate, enroll, recruit, convert
    "they were baptized into the church"
  • give a name or nickname to.
    "he baptized the science of narrative “narratology.”"
    synonyms: name, give the name, call, dub;
    formaldenominate
    "he was baptized Enoch"

FWIW, nothing there mentions water and I'm not positive but it's possible Jesus was thinking along those lines. Not so much the physical process but what that ceremony really meant.

Luke 3:16 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kenny, can you further explain the past participle meaning here.
 
th1b.taylor said:
This portion of one verse of a complete paragraph of a chapter (and I really could go on and on) is such a great example of how heresies grow. Words are useless without context as are portions of statements without their context.

This is a more eloquent wording of the Great Commission that is expressed in verses 18 through 20 of chapter 28. I have witnessed more than one person teach that any that get dunked are saved and any that do not get dunked are not saved, completely ignoring the context and drawing this portion of verse 16 (a) completely out of it's context.
Click to expand...
It's a Church of Christ doctrine.
 
All I can really tell you Rollo, Is as I mentioned, I'm not positive bout even that and I did well to recall the points I did in hopes it would help some.

Or, I just don't think I can answer your question, sorry..
 
Kenny_ms said:
All I can really tell you Rollo, Is as I mentioned, I'm not positive bout even that and I did well to recall the points I did in hopes it would help some.

Or, I just don't think I can answer your question, sorry..
Click to expand...

We don't need no Hebrew scholar and we don't need no Greek scholar.
What we need is an English scholar.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
We don't need no Hebrew scholar and we don't need no Greek scholar.
What we need is an English scholar.
Click to expand...

What would be nice is if Jesus would make another quick run back down here with some further instruction for the times and to clear a few other things up and then get out before things got ugly. He'd probably say we have all we need so, I'm not going to push it.

Fortunately most of it's pretty clear but important things like this that aren't? Definitely a problem.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Mark 16:16a;
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

It sounds as though one must be baptized in order to be saved.
If you believe this is not true, then can you explain what this verse is saying?
Click to expand...
Maybe the difficulty is that you are looking at it as be baptized 'IN ORDER' to be saved.
How 'bout, whoever believes and obeys the command to be baptized is the one who will be saved?

Perhaps Jesus is saying baptism is an expected and obligatory action of faith that validates that faith as being able to save you. Just as James speaks about that in his letter to the church.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Mark 16:16a;
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"

It sounds as though one must be baptized in order to be saved.
If you believe this is not true, then can you explain what this verse is saying?
Click to expand...

Any physical act of baptism is only symbolic of spiritual repentance. The particulars of the physical act have no importance beyond their spiritual symbolism (Death to the old life then resurrection to new life). If your belief in Jesus Christ reforms your lifestyle for the better then you can know you are saved.
 
First of all, we should note that our early Church Fathers (Origen and Clement of Alexandria) did not recognize Mark 16:9-20 as being in the early manuscripts. Modern theologians agree and point out the fact that Matthew, Luke and John do not include these verses. There are Greek words and expressions that are foreign to Marks writings, and it is surmised that someone added these verses later. Scholars say that these verses, when being used or preached, people should use caution in quoting and instructing from 9-20.

At best, the addition of the word Baptize should pale when considering the word "believe". In verse 16, the word baptize does not appear in the last statement. If this verse is valid, Jesus is merely saying that belief and baptism is the important formula, if you will, in the course of Salvation. Belief is a silent statement to Jesus and His Father coupled with the first "work", baptism. There was no need to include the word baptize if someone refused to believe.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
We don't need no Hebrew scholar and we don't need no Greek scholar.
What we need is an English scholar.
Click to expand...
We don't need an English scholar either, just a grammar book or website will do.
"Every verb also has a past-participial form, which, for most verbs, you create by adding ‑ed, ‑d, or ‑t. As with present participles, you’ll sometimes have to double up an ending consonant: The past participle of occur is occurred. Check the dictionary."
http://www.grammar.com/Past-Participle-The-ed-Verb/
Some completely change though. We don't say 'drinked', we say 'drunk'. That's English for ya'.
 
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