[_ Old Earth _] Archaeologists Discover Remains of Egyptian Army From the Biblical Exodus in Red Sea

[Edward]

So what was fraudulent?

 

[turnorburn]

No fraud here Edward...

Exodus 14:24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,

25 And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the LORD fighteth for them against the Egyptians.

26 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians, upon their chariots, and upon their horsemen.

27 And Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to his strength when the morning appeared; and the Egyptians fled against it; and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.

28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.

29 But the children of Israel walked upon dry land in the midst of the sea; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

30 Thus the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians; and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore.

31 And Israel saw that great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians: and the people feared the LORD, and believed the LORD, and his servant Moses.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

No fraud here Edward...

Exodus 14:24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,

25 And took off their chariot wheels, that they drave them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the LORD fighteth for them against the Egyptians.

26 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians, upon their chariots, and upon their horsemen.

27 And Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to his strength when the morning appeared; and the Egyptians fled against it; and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.

28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.

29 But the children of Israel walked upon dry land in the midst of the sea; and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.

30 Thus the LORD saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians; and Israel saw the Egyptians dead upon the sea shore.

31 And Israel saw that great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians: and the people feared the LORD, and believed the LORD, and his servant Moses.

Things happen in the passed. People look for evidence for proof. Lack of evidence does not mean it didn't happen. It means that the evidence is long since gone or has not been found yet.

I am sure some would like to find hundreds of chariot parts on the sea floor, combined with the skeletons of hundreds or thousands of Egyptian soldiers. However, there may only be but a few remaining. There have been legitimate finds in this area.

But, that's not enough for the skeptics. They want a smoking gun, tonnes of evidence, mounds of bones, hundreds of chariot wheels.... or, in their world, it didn't happen.

Some, in a quest for fame or in order to be "the ones" who found such evidence, will report fraudulent finds and observed evidence.....

None of this changes the truth of the event. It is written in the cannon of scripture. The Bible states it. It is an integral part of the history of God's people... evidence or not, I know it happened.

As for the statement of one poster stating that:

As a rule of thumb, if the people pushing a story put up fraudulent information to support it, you can be pretty sure there's no real evidence for it.

If this rule of thumb were proof positive for "no real evidence" we would have to toss the TOE and Climate change. Both are guilty of fraudulent stories intended to be sound information to support each scientific claim.

 

[Jim Parker]

So explain how these reports, turned out to be fraudulent.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/redsea.asp
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/remains-egyptian-army-red-sea-hoax.shtml

 

[Jim Parker]

I believe in unicorns because the Bible mentions them.

No. Not really.
The KJV translates the Hebrew word רְאֵם (rĕ'em) as "unicorn" but no other translation does. (TO my knowledge.)
The LXX word μονοκέρωτος is translated "narwhal".
Please don't go around telling people you believe in unicorns because the Bible says they're real.

 

[Edward]

No. Not really.
The KJV translates the Hebrew word רְאֵם (rĕ'em) as "unicorn" but no other translation does. (TO my knowledge.)
The LXX word μονοκέρωτος is translated "narwhal".
Please don't go around telling people you believe in unicorns because the Bible says they're real.

Why would you care what I talk to people about?

It probably is just talking about rhinos anyway.
What's a narwhal?

So you believe snopes over Scripture, interesting.

 

[Barbarian]

Things happen in the passed. People look for evidence for proof. Lack of evidence does not mean it didn't happen. It means that the evidence is long since gone or has not been found yet.

Or that it just never happened. Most likely that one.

I am sure some would like to find hundreds of chariot parts on the sea floor, combined with the skeletons of hundreds or thousands of Egyptian soldiers. However, there may only be but a few remaining. There have been legitimate finds in this area.

Checkable source for those?

Some, in a quest for fame or in order to be "the ones" who found such evidence, will report fraudulent finds and observed evidence.....

No questions about that.

Despite WNDR's framing of the alleged "discovery" as recent and newly announced, reports of divers finding chariot wheels and the like under the Red Sea are a hoax that has been promulgated for many years now. The WNDR article's use of language such as "this morning" and its claims that a team of "underwater archeologists" in Egypt responsible for the discovery are planning to recover more artifacts from the site reinvigorated interest in the long-discredited rumor, but the details are not only fabricated, they've simply been recycled from past claims and appended with more recent dates. In October 2015, the equally dubious web site Disclose.TV once again jump-started the phony rumors by republishing the year-old fake World News Daily Report article.
http://www.snopes.com/religion/redsea.asp

None of this changes the truth of the event. It is written in the cannon of scripture.

If you believe it, that should be good enough. Do you not see that frauds purporting to support scripture, make people suspect scripture itself is a fraud?

Barbarian observes:
As a rule of thumb, if the people pushing a story put up fraudulent information to support it, you can be pretty sure there's no real evidence for it.

If this rule of thumb were proof positive for "no real evidence" we would have to toss the TOE and Climate change.

As even many creationists admit, there is abundant evidence for evolution. Would you like to learn about some of them,and why they admit that fact? And of course, we directly observe carbon dioxide increasing global temperatures. I could show you that, if you like.

Both are guilty of fraudulent stories intended to be sound information to support each scientific claim.

There are tree-hugging leftists who make up foolish claims about climate change that are not supported by the data. And yes, that fact has led many people to wrongly assume the real science is wrong. That's exactly what those fake archaeology claims do for scripture.

And the Piltdown hoax, even though it was debunked by evolutionists, still misleads many people to think evolution is a fake. Why would you tolerate that kind of thing being done to Christian faith?

 

[Jacks Bratt]

http://www.snopes.com/religion/redsea.asp
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/remains-egyptian-army-red-sea-hoax.shtml

I have used snopes in the past, as many people have. Unfortunately, like everything in this world, corruption is followed where greed is the motivator...This leads to the saying, Truth is fleeting.

Like everything on the internet, Snopes is not a absolute final end all place to go to achieve real truth.

Check this article out: http://drrichswier.com/2015/08/06/snopes-com-ceo-arrested-on-charges-of-fraud-and-corruption/

Here is a piece of it....
The arresting officer caught Williston slipping some papers under a Persian rug, which prompted the police to remove the rug and examine the documents underneath it. One of them turned out to be a handwritten ledger, containing names of well-known individuals and organizations who have been paying Snopes.com to debunk stories that cast them in a bad light, while validating damaging half-truths and rumors about their political opponents.

Such a shame. Predictable, non the less.

 

[jasonc]

There are Jewish reasons ,from that angle,to believe in beersherith 6 literally.any dig in Isreal will be examined by the state of isreal and Rabbis will look into it.yet at times hucksters show up.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

Or that it just never happened. Most likely that one.

Really? "most likely that one".........There was a huge farm on some property near us. They tore it down and built a sub division. I guess it never existed.

My buddy lived in a subdivision that was purposefully flooded in order to make a reservoir and navigational route. No more eveidence of the neighborhood. Must never have existed.

Now, think of things that happened 200, 300 500 or 1000 years old. Actual events, places, cultures.... but, in your mind, most likely just never happened.

What did you want, every chariot, every horse skeleton, every body to remain for more than 200 years on the bottom of a sea?

I guess, finding a chariot, even one, at the bottom of a sea in an area with the history that the Red sea has, is still better understood as "most likely never happened".

Checkable source for those?

View attachment 9866

If you believe it, that should be good enough. Do you not see that frauds purporting to support scripture, make people suspect scripture itself is a fraud?

Of course I do and Biblical proof is not the only one to be afflicted by this quest for fame and perpetuation of a certain belief... Ahem.... the TOE,,, Climate gate..... to name two.

Barbarian observes:
As a rule of thumb, if the people pushing a story put up fraudulent information to support it, you can be pretty sure there's no real evidence for it.

Sometimes, however, at times people just want to get fame. Sometimes an event has happened and is accepted by the populace yet people will fabricate evidence for personal gain, recognition or a more solid iron clad proof.

As even many creationists admit, there is abundant evidence for evolution. Would you like to learn about some of them,and why they admit that fact? And of course, we directly observe carbon dioxide increasing global temperatures. I could show you that, if you like.

My belief in creation and the YEC is based on God's word. Man's wisdom and assumptions comes second. If science does not agree with the bible... science is wrong, skewed or hasn't got all the pieces yet.

There are tree-hugging leftists who make up foolish claims about climate change that are not supported by the data. And yes, that fact has led many people to wrongly assume the real science is wrong. That's exactly what those fake archaeology claims do for scripture.

There are a few scientists that had email conversations about "what are we going to do, our data doesn't match our predictions". hmmmm.
The temperature has not come even relatively close to the early shock and panic about the terrible results of rapid temperature change....

We just had the hottest August since 1936....... that's 1936. This means that we had extremely hot weather 80 years ago. WOW, and without the global warming. That must have been apocalyptic for them then...

Actually, not, these temperature fluctuations are cyclic and will return to cooling trends in the next decade or so.

I've seen data put out by both sides. How can that happen? Both sides have scientific data that totally refutes the others data... Hmmmmm.

And the Piltdown hoax, even though it was debunked by evolutionists, still misleads many people to think evolution is a fake. Why would you tolerate that kind of thing being done to Christian faith?

I bet that not too many Christians even know of these frauds. Most people, in my circle of church goers, believe in the gospel, study their lives and try to walk as Jesus would want, spend copious amounts of energy on "marriage" and "social issues" as they try to balance work, finances and their busy lives.

Most accept that the Exodus happened and could care less if someone finds chariots in the red sea. Or, a chunk of Noah's ark, or a clay tablet with Josephs name on it. They may be curious but it would affect their belief very little.

As a result, they are oblivious to the frauds just as they are unaware or unconcerned of the real evidence found from time to time. They just don't need it.

However, frauds are out there everywhere, as you have stated. Why do the supporters of the TOE not forcefully deter such frauds. Why are they tolerated and still purported?


Haeckels drawings are still printed in some of today's school science text books with full knowledge that they are wrong.

Nebraska man, with a pig's tooth..fraud....and, before Nebraska man evolution had a hard time getting taught in schools but such was the fanfare of Nebraska man that evolution became the excepted norm.

Java man... another fraud.

As for the whole Neanderthal hoax.......
On February 18, 2005, Protsch was forced to retire in disgrace after a Frankfurt University panel ruled he had “fabricated data and plagiarized the work of his colleagues” (see “Anthropologist Resigns in ‘Dating Disaster,’ ” 2005). Once believed to be a world-renowned expert on carbon dating, Protsch’s entire professional career is now being questioned. The university noted: “The commission finds that Prof. Protsch has forged and manipulated scientific facts over the past 30 years” (“Anthropologist Resigns…”).

According to Thomas Terberger, the archaeologist who discovered the hoax: “[A]nthropology is going to have to completely revise its picture of modern man between 40,000 and 10,000 years ago” (as quoted in Harding, 2005). He continued: “Prof. Protsch’s work appeared to prove that anatomically modern humans and Neanderthals had co-existed, and perhaps even had children together. This now appears to be rubbish” (emp. added).

But the Neanderthal skull was not the only forgery Oxford discovered. Protsch also had paraded “Binshof-Speyer” woman before the public, stating that she was 21,300 years old. Yet the new Oxford date puts this woman living at 1,300 B.C. Protsch also claimed that “Paderborn-Sande Man” walked the Earth 27,400 B.C., and yet the corrected figure reveals that he died only a couple hundred years ago—in A.D. 1750!

If you take away all of the fraudulent acts of the founders and those who perpetuate of the TOE, it may shed new light on it's validity as a theory.

 

[Barbarian]

Really? "most likely that one".........There was a huge farm on some property near us. They tore it down and built a sub division. I guess it never existed.

Except there are records of property to be found in the courthouse, and tax records, and maybe photos, and so on.

My buddy lived in a subdivision that was purposefully flooded in order to make a reservoir and navigational route. No more eveidence of the neighborhood. Must never have existed.

Except divers could actually find artifacts there today.

What did you want, every chariot, every horse skeleton, every body to remain for more than 200 years on the bottom of a sea?

That's one problem. You see, bones won't last sitting on the bottom of the sea. They can be preserved in various ways if buried, but not just lying on the bottom.

I guess, finding a chariot, even one, at the bottom of a sea in an area with the history that the Red sea has, is still better understood as "most likely never happened".

Show us the chariot.

View attachment 9866

Doesn't look much like a chariot to me. What makes you think it's a chariot? Wood wouldn't last for thousands of years like that, either.

There are a few scientists that had email conversations about "what are we going to do, our data doesn't match our predictions".

Show us that. As you learned, warming is proceeding faster than expected.

The temperature has not come even relatively close to the early shock and panic about the terrible results of rapid temperature change....

Turns out, it's pretty much what Hanson's predictions called for when he made them decades ago.

We just had the hottest August since 1936....... that's 1936.

Well, let's take a look at that claim. From NASA's database of world surface temperatures going back to the 1800s:

The temperature anomaly for 1936 was 0. We don't have the number for August 2016 yet, but the number for July was 96, the hottest July on record. The number for August 2015 was 89, second highest ever, and hotter than anything before 2011.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts.txt

Someone's been playing bait-and-switch with you.

This means that we had extremely hot weather 80 years ago.

It means someone found some local temperatures and presented them to you as global temps. As I said, if people feel the need to deceive to convince you, they probably don't have the truth at all.

WOW

Not really. It's pretty much S.0.P. for those guys.

Actually, not, these temperature fluctuations are cyclic and will return to cooling trends in the next decade or so.

That's what the deniers said last decade. And they had some reason to think so. We were going into a solar minimum, which normally causes significant cooling. Instead, it got hotter.

How can that happen? Both sides have scientific data that totally refutes the others data... Hmmmmm.

You've been had. Here's how they did it:
After WWI, there was a huge influx of farmers into lands previously too dry to farm. A short-lived wet spell made it possible to farm those lands, but then the wet spell ended. Without grass cover to protect the soil, it dried up and blew away. That led to elevated temperatures across the great plains. But that localized disaster didn't affect world temps that much. They took those temps and told you that they were for the world as a whole.

And now you know how they fooled you.

I bet that not too many Christians even know of these frauds. Most people, in my circle of church goers, believe in the gospel, study their lives and try to walk as Jesus would want, spend copious amounts of energy on "marriage" and "social issues" as they try to balance work, finances and their busy lives.

That's what the deniers count on. If you don't check your sources, you'll be easy prey for people like that.

However, frauds are out there everywhere, as you have stated. Why do the supporters of the TOE not forcefully deter such frauds.

They do. The Piltdown hoax was exposed by evolutionists. Piltdown made no sense, since it suggested that large brains happened before upright stance, the opposite of what evolutionary theory would expect. So there was considerable effort to figure out what was wrong. Eventually, they were able to conclusively show it was a hoax.

Haeckels drawings are still printed in some of today's school science text books with full knowledge that they are wrong.

I review a lot of biology texts, and I'm calling B.S. on that. Name the book, publisher, and date. If I find that you're telling the truth, I can make considerable trouble for the guys who did it. Let's see what you've got.

Nebraska man, with a pig's tooth..fraud....

Nope. A simple error. A dinosaur specialist found a tooth that looked very much like a hominid tooth. He published, only to have a mammal expert show that it was the tooth of a peccary, oddly worn down in a way that resembled a hominid tooth. Meantime, a London tabloid published a fanciful picture of the supposed creature, filling in what the report didn't say.

and, before Nebraska man evolution had a hard time getting taught in schools but such was the fanfare of Nebraska man that evolution became the excepted norm.

Nope. The breakthrough was the re-discovery of Mendel's work on genetics. Before the understanding of genes, it was impossible for scientists to explain how a new trait could spread in a population. When they realized that heredity was more like sorting beads than like mixing paint, it became clear. Darwinism plus genetics made evolution certain.

Java man... another fraud.

Nope. In fact, since that time, many, many specimens of Homo erectus have been found. No point in denying it. Would you like a partial list?

As for the whole Neanderthal hoax.......
On February 18, 2005, Protsch was forced to retire in disgrace after a Frankfurt University panel ruled he had “fabricated data and plagiarized the work of his colleagues...

“Prof. Protsch’s work appeared to prove that anatomically modern humans and Neanderthals had co-existed, and perhaps even had children together. This now appears to be rubbish” (emp. added).

The Neandertal genome has since been sequenced, and it is clear that H. neandertalis is a subspecies of our own, a member of H. sapiens. And since the discovery that people of European descent often have a number of Neandertal genes, the evidence for interbreeding between the two populations is undeniable.

In two new studies, genetic researchers have shown that about 20 percent of the Neanderthal genome survives in modern humans of non-African ancestry and identified exactly which areas of the human genome retain segments of Neanderthal DNA.
http://www.sci-news.com/otherscienc...neanderthal-genes-modern-human-dna-01734.html

The difference between science and climate denial or creationism, is that a scientific paper had better show reproducible results, or the author is in big trouble. That story, you fell for, where they switched western U.S. data for global data, has been circulating for years. Because deniers never check these things, the frauds live on pretty much forever, continuously popping up wherever there's someone credulous enough to believe without evidence.

 

[Jim Parker]

Why would you care what I talk to people about?

Because you have the ability to make the scriptures look so foolish that people will stay away in droves.

It probably is just talking about rhinos anyway.

Since the "unicorn" rhino is only found in the lowlands around the Himalayas, it is highly unlikely that the British, who did not get permission to trade in India until the early 17th century, would know anything about them.
Therefore, considering that FACT and the FACT that the "horse with a horn" version of a unicorn was a widely held belief in western Europe, it is highly UNlikely that the KJV translators would have known anything about the Indian Rhinoceros.
Your "probably" is illogical.

What's a narwhal?

It will take you about 30 seconds to google it.
How about do a little research and learn something?

So you believe snopes over Scripture, interesting.

The bogus report of an archaeological discovery is not scripture.
I was talking about the report, not scripture.
How did you not understand that? (Rhetorical question)