Are Christians Wretched??? Paul's answer might surprise you:

[Nathan]

When I read God's word, it sets in my mind and in my heart as 100% true. So he's saying because of Christ the body may be dead because of sin, but Christ will guide you unto righteousness. Then he says he who raised Christ will also give life to our mortal body. (Double action taking place)

Interesting, I guess I just didn't understand the 'double' of if.

I see it as singular. The same Spirit that brings and gives us power to righteousness, is the same Spirit of power that raised Christ from the dead - which is the same Spirit of power that will one day raise our mortal bodies to new life.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Interesting, I guess I just didn't understand the 'double' of if.

I see it as singular. The same Spirit that brings and gives us power to righteousness, is the same Spirit of power that raised Christ from the dead - which is the same Spirit of power that will one day raise our mortal bodies to new life.

The Christ came in the flesh to conquer our flesh. I see the 2 different parts of holiness working in that scripture.

 

[Nathan]

The Christ came in the flesh to conquer our flesh. I see the 2 different parts of holiness working in that scripture.

I guess I'm still confused to your thoughts, but I'd like to know them.

Could you define the two different parts of holiness and what sets them apart as being different?

 

[LovethroughDove]

I guess I'm still confused to your thoughts, but I'd like to know them.

Could you define the two different parts of holiness and what sets them apart as being different?

1 Peter 4:1-2 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.

The Christ suffered.

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle - sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead -

So we have Christ helping us (the one who suffered) and we have God the Father helping us also in holiness. They are both obviously Holy. Did that answer your question? I feel like it did?

 

[Nathan]

1 Peter 4:1-2 Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.

The Christ suffered.

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle - sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead -

So we have Christ helping us (the one who suffered) and we have God the Father helping us also in holiness. They are both obviously Holy. Did that answer your question? I feel like it did?

Yes, I see how you are drawing a distinction. I guess I just do not know how there can be a distinction between them as it is through the Spirit that this work is done in our lives.

Unless you think that Christ is individualized from the Spirit, and then you have God the Father individualized, and each one comes separately to us in help?

Regardless, I think I do understand why you said what you did. Just a bit confusing to me is all.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Unless you think that Christ is individualized from the Spirit, and then you have God the Father individualized, and each one comes separately to us in help?

They are the Holy Spirit. They are One with believers. "Holy"
John 14:20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

I do see Christ doing a separate work in me. He submits my soul to the Father and he helps me with sin of the flesh stuff.

The Father reveals revelation
Matthew 16:17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.

 

[K2CHRIST]

I'm secure in what God is saying to me.

When I read God's word,

There is something that needs to be pointed out. The first is that the Holy Spirit does indeed speak to us. The second is that reading is not hearing.

Now it would not be unusually and in fact should probably be expected that the Holy Spirit would talk to you while you read your Bible. It probably was Him you told you to read it in the first place, but still reading the Scriptures is not the same thing as hearing Him. You should be seeking to hear from Him while you read the Scriptures!

It is very important to be able to differentiate between reading the Scriptures and knowing the voice of the Holy Spirit for several reasons.

Salvation is one of the reasons. One of the problems we read about in the Bible is where people were reading the Scriptures instead of seeking the voice of the Lord. Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling tom come to Me so that you may have life.

I'm not saying that "LovethroughDove" has that problem, but it was and still is a problem that can be seen. The Jews at that time thought they were good with God because they read and studied the Scriptures, but it was heaven but hell they were heading for. So we don't want to confuse people on such an important issue.

And then there is knowing Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit for all that He has for us today. This is not just a question of what happens after you die but eternal means from now on.

Prov 2:6 For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

It is not just about when you are reading the Bible it is about all aspects of our life. When you go shopping at the store, do you ask the God for wisdom, knowledge, and understanding about what to buy????

Jesus said He would never leave you, and He said He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone hears His voice and opens the door..

We just don't get it. The Lord wants to help us in all we do, and we somehow think He is only when we read our Bible or perhaps when we go to church. There is something written about praying (having communication back and forth) with God unceasingly I personally find Him very weird because He doesn't think like I do, but He is awesome.

There are so many times I could tell about, but it comes to mind now about the time I wash Christmas shopping with Him. He told me to get a fold up card table for my mom. I was telling Him that He was crazy. A card table for my mom. That was a stupid Christmas gift, and besides she has one. I had seen it. Still, He is God and I am not so I bought it. I was so embarrassed that when I got to me brother's house, where we were getting together, that I ask me mom to come to my car because I didn't want to give it to her in front of the family.

My mom knows the Lord well, so I told her that I felt the Lord had asked me to get her it, but what do I know. She laughed so hard when she saw it. And she told me that her old card table was sitting inside my brothers house right now, In fact, she had just got done giving her old card table to my brother because he had been using his house for a number of parties and he needed a fold out card table for them. So God had given her a brand new card table because she had just given her old one away.

That is the God we have!! He is not just to be sought after while reading a Bible or going to church, but He is a personal God that is ready, willing, able, and desiring to have a personal relationship with us in all we do. That is our message!! It is not that we have a Bible to read about Him and hear Him talk to us through it; it is that we have Him if we would just open the door to Him who is knocking at our door with His voice. It is not that we read, it is that we hear just like it is written>

Ps 81:11 But My people did not listen to My voice...

Ps 81:13 Oh that My people would listen to Me,...

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear O earth; For the Lord speaks

Is 3:3 ... But Israel does not know, My people do not understand

This was the problem in the past. They read. They had the Scriptures. But His people didn't understand, they did listen to the Lord who speaks! I'm not saying in particular person has that problem, but I hear Him talking to me. He first words to me were "Read Your Bible" but He is not the Bible, He is the One who talks to me about it, and talks to me about my sons soccer team, about what to get at the store, about how to run my business better, and any other part of my life. And it gets incredible.

Like recently when He had me go to a place where I had information He had given me about a stomach problem a person had. I asked about it and it was a problem so we prayed and God healed it. You can find out God heals people in the Bible but how are you going to get the words of knowledge to know where He wants you personally to go, and what He wants prayed for and when if you can't personally hear from Him beyond the reading the words in the Bible? The Bible is nice, but it is putting what is written into action and it is written to listen to Him.

 

[LovethroughDove]

And then there is knowing Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit for all that He has for us today. This is not just a question of what happens after you die but eternal means from now on.

This sums up your post nicely. His Spirit is so cool (He is so cool)! Putting his words into action will have us look like him and I want to be cool too. :shades

 

[K2CHRIST]

This sums up your post nicely. His Spirit is so cool (He is so cool)! Putting his words into action will have us look like him and I want to be cool too. :shades

Absolutely! The Spirit is cool. He is awesome to listen to and take in what He says.

I don't want to come across like I am nitpicking, but the Spirit does not speak on His own imitative, but as He hears He speaks.

Jn 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak.

We have a device called a telephone. It does not speak on it's own initiative, but whatever it hears it speaks. The Holy Spirit is a person in the trinity, but He acts like our phone. And if I call my brother on my phone I don't say I am talking to the phone, I say I am talking to my brother. I might say I am talking on the phone, but not to the phone.

So are we talking to the Spirit of to our Lord Jesus Christ?

You kind of see this with the book Revelation.

John writes that he was in the Spirit, and has words from the Lord telling those that have an ear to hear to hear what the Spirits says, but nowhere do you see any words that are spoken by the Spirit. What we read all lots of words spoken by Jesus Christ, and even words spoken by ministering angels. that generally seem to glorify God. I believe there is a reason for this, and I believe it is because the Holy Spirit fully dedicated to glorifying the Son and helping us hook up with Him (Jesus Christ). Also remember the Father's word's "This is My Son in whom I am well-pleased, Listen to Him."

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day

The point that I am trying to make is the same as the point the Father was making. Our relationship with God is through the Son and our Lord Jesus Christ! We are to listen to Him and glorify Him, while bring people to Him, and the Spirit makes it possible. So while it is important for know about the Holy Spirit, it is also worth noting that the Spirit is not glorifying Himself, but the Son, and so should we.

My mom had a sister that was a high priestess in a new age cult. The believed in the Spirit and glorified what they thought was the Holy Spirit but they felt Jesus Christ had died and was no longer around to be heard from. I am not saying we are dong that, but let us remember our purpose and how to test the spirits. We don't want to unintentionally lead people astray.

1 Cor 12:3... no one can say, "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit

We are not saying the Holy Spirit is Lord (though He is God the Spirit and can be consider Lord with the Father and Son), because we are talking to our Lord Jesus Christ the One who owns the very words of God, and the One that gives us the instructions via the Holy Spirit.

Jn 16:15 All things that the Father has are Mine...

That would include the very words of God!

Jn 16:15 ... therefore I said the He (the Holy Spirit) takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

To summarize. The Holy Spirit takes the words of God from the Son and which are personal possession of the Son, and gives them to us, but the Spirit does not even do that on His own initiative, but as He hears He speaks them to us. So our connection, like that on a phone line or from a perfect ambassador, is with Jesus Christ and He said His sheep hear His voice.

 

[Nathan]

Absolutely! The Spirit is cool. He is awesome to listen to and take in what He says.

I don't want to come across like I am nitpicking, but the Spirit does not speak on His own imitative, but as He hears He speaks.

Jn 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak.

We have a device called a telephone. It does not speak on it's own initiative, but whatever it hears it speaks. The Holy Spirit is a person in the trinity, but He acts like our phone. And if I call my brother on my phone I don't say I am talking to the phone, I say I am talking to my brother. I might say I am talking on the phone, but not to the phone.

So are we talking to the Spirit of to our Lord Jesus Christ?

You kind of see this with the book Revelation.

John writes that he was in the Spirit, and has words from the Lord telling those that have an ear to hear to hear what the Spirits says, but nowhere do you see any words that are spoken by the Spirit. What we read all lots of words spoken by Jesus Christ, and even words spoken by ministering angels. that generally seem to glorify God. I believe there is a reason for this, and I believe it is because the Holy Spirit fully dedicated to glorifying the Son and helping us hook up with Him (Jesus Christ). Also remember the Father's word's "This is My Son in whom I am well-pleased, Listen to Him."

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day

The point that I am trying to make is the same as the point the Father was making. Our relationship with God is through the Son and our Lord Jesus Christ! We are to listen to Him and glorify Him, while bring people to Him, and the Spirit makes it possible. So while it is important for know about the Holy Spirit, it is also worth noting that the Spirit is not glorifying Himself, but the Son, and so should we.

My mom had a sister that was a high priestess in a new age cult. The believed in the Spirit and glorified what they thought was the Holy Spirit but they felt Jesus Christ had died and was no longer around to be heard from. I am not saying we are dong that, but let us remember our purpose and how to test the spirits. We don't want to unintentionally lead people astray.

1 Cor 12:3... no one can say, "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit

We are not saying the Holy Spirit is Lord (though He is God the Spirit and can be consider Lord with the Father and Son), because we are talking to our Lord Jesus Christ the One who owns the very words of God, and the One that gives us the instructions via the Holy Spirit.

Jn 16:15 All things that the Father has are Mine...

That would include the very words of God!

Jn 16:15 ... therefore I said the He (the Holy Spirit) takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

To summarize. The Holy Spirit takes the words of God from the Son and which are personal possession of the Son, and gives them to us, but the Spirit does not even do that on His own initiative, but as He hears He speaks them to us. So our connection, like that on a phone line or from a perfect ambassador, is with Jesus Christ and He said His sheep hear His voice.

Good analogy.