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Are Darwin fishes offensive?

smos

Member
Question for you:

Do you find Darwin fish emblems to be offensive?

I have a Darwin fish belt buckle that I wear around (usually with my shirt untucked - no one really sees it), and my mom doesn't like it. She says that the ichthys is a very important symbol to some people, and that using it in the Darwin fish is unnecessarily offensive. I've been wondering what people think about it...

So, do you take offense at the Darwin fish?

(Edit: I did a search before posting, and couldn't find any previous posts on the topic, so forgive me if something like this has been covered.)
 
It doesn't bother me at all. I just see it as someone proclaiming a belief in evolution. It's no more offensive, in my mind, than seeing a Jewish or Muslim symbol of their faith, or seeing a t-shirt advocating a band or product I don't like.

But then again, I'm Canadian, and stuff tends not to offend us that much. :)
 
strathyboy said:
It doesn't bother me at all. I just see it as someone proclaiming a belief in evolution. It's no more offensive, in my mind, than seeing a Jewish or Muslim symbol of their faith, or seeing a t-shirt advocating a band or product I don't like.

I agree with 'strathyboy' and also from what I've been told, before Mr. Darwin died he became a christian and said all his findings were null and void.

Anyways, according to science a bee isn't supposed to be able to fly due to its wingspan not being wide enough to support the bee's body mass index...
 
smos said:
Question for you:

Do you find Darwin fish emblems to be offensive?

I have a Darwin fish belt buckle that I wear around (usually with my shirt untucked - no one really sees it), and my mom doesn't like it. She says that the ichthys is a very important symbol to some people, and that using it in the Darwin fish is unnecessarily offensive. I've been wondering what people think about it...

So, do you take offense at the Darwin fish?

(Edit: I did a search before posting, and couldn't find any previous posts on the topic, so forgive me if something like this has been covered.)

I have never seen a Darwin fish but that in itself, I would not consider to be offensive. The question I feel compelled to ask is; Does the 'Darwin' emblem come in a ‘Star of David' or ‘Crescent moon’ variety? If the answer is 'no' then I would take it’s design to be an attempt at mocking Christianity, who’s adherents traditionally do not believe in an old Earth (as neither do Jews or Muslims)

RedeemerClothing said:
strathyboy said:
It doesn't bother me at all. I just see it as someone proclaiming a belief in evolution. It's no more offensive, in my mind, than seeing a Jewish or Muslim symbol of their faith, or seeing a t-shirt advocating a band or product I don't like.
I agree with 'strathyboy' and also from what I've been told, before Mr. Darwin died he became a christian and said all his findings were null and void.

Anyways, according to science a bee isn't supposed to be able to fly due to its wingspan not being wide enough to support the bee's body mass index...

There is a thread in the Science forum, which refutes the claim of Darwin's recantation, but to take part in this thread, you will have to PM a Mod and get permission.

Gabriel
 
I don't really find it offensive. Although I may have been numbed a little by all the other things that are outright offensive (I'm thinking of various artists that have depicted Jesus in some very vulgar ways)

If its just stating a belief, that's fine. But like Gabriel Ali alluded to, I think sometimes the intent of things like that are to antagonize and mock.

But, you know, if it is, I can forgive.
 
caromurp said:
I don't really care if someone uses it to state their belief, but like Gabriel and Veritas, if it is used to mock Christianity then that's different.

I looked up the Darwin fish symbol and found this website that sells them along with other things. This is what I find offensive...http://www.darwinfish.com//catalog/index.php?cPath=21

Why? If you never would have looked it up would you have even known about the site? I'm not offended by anything Darwin....he's dead.
 
RND said:
caromurp said:
I don't really care if someone uses it to state their belief, but like Gabriel and Veritas, if it is used to mock Christianity then that's different.

I looked up the Darwin fish symbol and found this website that sells them along with other things. This is what I find offensive...http://www.darwinfish.com//catalog/index.php?cPath=21

Why? If you never would have looked it up would you have even known about the site? I'm not offended by anything Darwin....he's dead.

I think its safe to say that Caroline was not offended by Darwin, it were the Jesus fighting Action figures. Although i found them to be quite nice, i'm well aware that this product is meant to offend Christians.
 
I didn't mean to be snippy, but I felt like I was being ridiculed because something offended me. No one want's their feelings to be nullified by someone. Sorry I derailed the topic... :halo
 
caromurp said:
RND, am I not allowed to say what I find offensive, or is that unChristian? :confused

Sure you are. I'm just wondering why you find something like the website you posted offensive. If you were offended by the web site why would you share your offense with others?

caromurp said:
I didn't mean to be snippy, but I felt like I was being ridiculed because something offended me.

Clearly, I wasn't 'ridiculing' you. I just was simply asking 'why' you were offended. Obviously I owe you an apology so please accept mine. I'm sorry.

No one want's their feelings to be nullified by someone. Sorry I derailed the topic... :halo

I didn't 'nullify' your feelings; you haven't expressed them. Needless to say you were offended by my asking why the web site you posted offended you - I'm sorry.
 
It wasn't the website I was referring to, but the Jesus action figures. I think it is making a mockery of Jesus. I think we had a misunderstanding and I apologize also.
 
caromurp said:
It wasn't the website I was referring to, but the Jesus action figures. I think it is making a mockery of Jesus. I think we had a misunderstanding and I apologize also.

No sweat! I'm just curious caromurp how, if you have a strongly rooted belief in Jesus Christ, you can get offended by these things that's all. In my mind I don't see Jesus being offended by such things in that He allowed His very created beings to hang Him on a cross and still forgive them.

Maybe I'm too lax about my beliefs but I just don't see Jesus being easily offended by these things. I guess that's why I asked you why. Again, please accept my apologies.
 
I don't think it is a matter of how deeply rooted one is in their faith, but rather a simple difference in personality. Regardless, I think that my first post had little to do with the OP.
 
Thanks for all the informative replies! (Keep 'em coming!)

Gabriel Ali said:
I have never seen a Darwin fish but that in itself, I would not consider to be offensive. The question I feel compelled to ask is; Does the 'Darwin' emblem come in a ‘Star of David' or ‘Crescent moon’ variety?
3128908940_b201d2975c_o.gif


I think it's become popular mostly because it's representative of evolution to add little feet to the fish (i.e. it's a later form of an evolved species). I think the rationale is that it wouldn't be making as much of a statement on a Star of David or Crescent Moon symbol.
 
It's still a clear objection to Genesis and Christianity in particular since the fish is pretty much a Christian icon.
Do I find offense in it though? Not really. The vast majority of those displaying that symbol are pretty much professing they are unbelievers rejecting Christ whether they know it or not. What they did was added legs to an already existing symbol. So they "borrowed" from Christianity. :D

jesusfish.jpg
 
Rick said:
It's still a clear objection to Genesis and Christianity in particular since the fish is pretty much a Christian icon.
Do I find offense in it though? Not really. The vast majority of those displaying that symbol are pretty much professing they are unbelievers rejecting Christ whether they know it or not. What they did was added legs to an already existing symbol. So they "borrowed" from Christianity. :D

jesusfish.jpg


It seems the "Christian" symbol was borrowed from paganism.

The pre-Christian history of the fish symbol:

The fish symbol has been used for millennia worldwide as a religious symbol associated with the Pagan Great Mother Goddess. It is the outline of her vulva. The fish symbol was often drawn by overlapping two very thin crescent moons. One represented the crescent shortly before the new moon; the other shortly after, when the moon is just visible. The Moon is the heavenly body that has long been associated with the Goddess, just as the sun is a symbol of the God.

The link between the Goddess and fish was found in various areas of the ancient world:
In China, Great Mother Kwan-yin often portrayed in the shape of a fish
In India, the Goddess Kali was called the "fish-eyed one"
In Egypt, Isis was called the Great Fish of the Abyss
In Greece the Greek word "delphos" meant both fish and womb. The word is derived from the location of the ancient Oracle at Delphi who worshipped the original fish goddess, Themis.

The later fish Goddess, Aphrodite Salacia, was worshipped by her followers on her sacred day, Friday. They ate fish and engaging in orgies. From her name comes the English word "salacious" which means lustful or obscene. Also from her name comes the name of our fourth month, April. In later centuries, the Christian church adsorbed this tradition by requiring the faithful to eat fish on Friday - a tradition that was only recently abandoned.

In ancient Rome Friday is called "dies veneris" or Day of Venus, the Pagan Goddess of Love.

Throughout the Mediterranean, mystery religions used fish, wine and bread for their sacramental meal.

In Scandinavia, the Great Goddess was named Freya; fish were eaten in her honor. The 6th day of the week was named "Friday" after her.

In the Middle East, the Great Goddess of Ephesus was portrayed as a woman with a fish amulet over her genitals.

The fish symbol "was so revered throughout the Roman empire that Christian authorities insisted on taking it over, with extensive revision of myths to deny its earlier female-genital meanings...Sometimes the Christ child was portrayed inside the vesica, which was superimposed on Mary's belly and obviously represented her womb, just as in the ancient symbolism of the Goddess." 4 Another author writes: "The fish headdress of the priests of Ea [a Sumero-Semitic God] later became the miter of the Christian bishops." 5

The symbol itself, the eating of fish on Friday and the association of the symbol with deity were all taken over by the early Church from Pagan sources. Only the sexual component was deleted.
 
RND said:
Rick said:
It's still a clear objection to Genesis and Christianity in particular since the fish is pretty much a Christian icon.
Do I find offense in it though? Not really. The vast majority of those displaying that symbol are pretty much professing they are unbelievers rejecting Christ whether they know it or not. What they did was added legs to an already existing symbol. So they "borrowed" from Christianity. :D

jesusfish.jpg


It seems the "Christian" symbol was borrowed from paganism.

The pre-Christian history of the fish symbol:

The fish symbol has been used for millennia worldwide as a religious symbol associated with the Pagan Great Mother Goddess. It is the outline of her vulva. The fish symbol was often drawn by overlapping two very thin crescent moons. One represented the crescent shortly before the new moon; the other shortly after, when the moon is just visible. The Moon is the heavenly body that has long been associated with the Goddess, just as the sun is a symbol of the God.

The link between the Goddess and fish was found in various areas of the ancient world:
In China, Great Mother Kwan-yin often portrayed in the shape of a fish
In India, the Goddess Kali was called the "fish-eyed one"
In Egypt, Isis was called the Great Fish of the Abyss
In Greece the Greek word "delphos" meant both fish and womb. The word is derived from the location of the ancient Oracle at Delphi who worshipped the original fish goddess, Themis.

The later fish Goddess, Aphrodite Salacia, was worshipped by her followers on her sacred day, Friday. They ate fish and engaging in orgies. From her name comes the English word "salacious" which means lustful or obscene. Also from her name comes the name of our fourth month, April. In later centuries, the Christian church adsorbed this tradition by requiring the faithful to eat fish on Friday - a tradition that was only recently abandoned.

In ancient Rome Friday is called "dies veneris" or Day of Venus, the Pagan Goddess of Love.

Throughout the Mediterranean, mystery religions used fish, wine and bread for their sacramental meal.

In Scandinavia, the Great Goddess was named Freya; fish were eaten in her honor. The 6th day of the week was named "Friday" after her.

In the Middle East, the Great Goddess of Ephesus was portrayed as a woman with a fish amulet over her genitals.

The fish symbol "was so revered throughout the Roman empire that Christian authorities insisted on taking it over, with extensive revision of myths to deny its earlier female-genital meanings...Sometimes the Christ child was portrayed inside the vesica, which was superimposed on Mary's belly and obviously represented her womb, just as in the ancient symbolism of the Goddess." 4 Another author writes: "The fish headdress of the priests of Ea [a Sumero-Semitic God] later became the miter of the Christian bishops." 5

The symbol itself, the eating of fish on Friday and the association of the symbol with deity were all taken over by the early Church from Pagan sources. Only the sexual component was deleted.

Are you saying that Jesus Christ asked the twelve to observe something pagan at the last supper, when He told them to eat bread and drink wine in rememberance of Him?

There are many pre-Christian virgin birth stories; does this mean that the Bible borrowed from paganism and should be disgarded?
 
I KNEW someone would have to say it. :lol

Show me an ancient pagan chariot sticker with a fish and Christ's name in it and I'll eat my hat.
 
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