- Dec 13, 2019
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A recent article made the bold claim that feathers are one of evolution’s greatest inventions. But what proof did they offer?
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[__ Science __ ] Are Feathers One of Evolution’s Cleverest Inventions?
- Thread starter AIG.com
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Since YHVH Created all things, through Y'Shua,
since all things were created in Him, by Him,
and
without Him (specifically) was not anything made that was made.
Feathers are some thing.
Feathers are/were always/ created by YHVH through Y'Shua as planned and purposed.
There's no proof at all that anything fit the false teachings of evilution in any way other than the Bible Says Clearly.
since all things were created in Him, by Him,
and
without Him (specifically) was not anything made that was made.
Feathers are some thing.
Feathers are/were always/ created by YHVH through Y'Shua as planned and purposed.
There's no proof at all that anything fit the false teachings of evilution in any way other than the Bible Says Clearly.
- Jun 5, 2003
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The Early Origin of Feathers
Volume 34, Issue 9, September 2019, Pages 856-869Recent work in the developmental biology and palaeontology of feathers has changed our views and opened many new questions (see Outstanding Questions). The new work concurs that these remarkable innovations originated long before the origin of birds, even before the origin of dinosaurs. This does not diminish the importance of feathers as key to the success of birds, but shows that birds did not emerge rapidly from reptiles, but that their set of 30 or more adaptations [78] accumulated stepwise...
Feathers didn't suddenly appear, but evolved over a very long time, as the evidence shows. Genetic and biochemical data confirms fossil data.
The genes that caused scales to become feathers in the early ancestors of birds have been found by US scientists.
By expressing these genes in embryo alligator skin, the researchers caused the reptiles' scales to change in a way that may be similar to how the earliest feathers evolved.
Feathers are highly complex natural structures and they're key to the success of birds.
How dinosaur scales became bird feathers
The genes that caused scales to become feathers in the early ancestors of birds have been found by US scientists.
www.bbc.com
The evidence shows that feathers first appeared in early archosaurs ( group including thecodonts, pterosaurs, dinosaurs, crocodiles, and birds).
One time, they assert "BECOME FEATHERS".
The next, they tone down their emotion and say, "change in a way that MAY be similar to how the earliest feathers evolved". MAY?? And how would they know what an "earliest feather" looks like?? Oh right - assume that the past continued on smoothly to today (and ignore Genesis)!! uniformitarianism!!
The 2x mind man is unstable. Was it a feather 100% or was it merely a GUESS??
And then they say it is highly complex. Why would a natural process be the maker of feathers, and not God creating them in Creation Week??
So did it really become a feather?? is it just a guess? or neither, and actually God created it?? wow, believing evolution is a maze ing. Literally. And it raises more questions than gives answers.
I like Genesis, makes things easy n logical. More certainty.
- Jun 5, 2003
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So the evidence shows. In fact, geneticists have shown that a mutation of one gene can change scutes to feathers in birds and crocodiles, which are both archosaurs like thecodonts and dinosaurs. Would you like to learn about that?
Yes. Knowing that something happened doesn't mean one knows every detail.
Fossils. Would you like to learn about the fossil evidence? It happens to be backed up by genetics and biochemistry, of course, but it's also demonstrated by fossils.
Perhaps you don't know what "uniformitarianism" means. What do you think it means? Hint: It doesn't mean "continuous smooth change."
Guesses don't leave fossils. So It was 100%, depending on what you mean by that. What's a 100% feather, in your beliefs?
Natural processes are the way God creates most things in this world. You are a creature of God, are you not?
Yep.
He did. You just don't approve of the way He did it.
It's observed everywhere in all sorts of populations. I think you are confused about what biological evolution is. What do you think it is?
Just like physics. A science with no new questions is dead.
Me too. But learning that God created things doesn't mean He told you how.
Don't birds already have feathers?
In crocodiles - REAL full-on feathers, or just divided scales that LOOK like feathers?
Feathers were instantly created on day 6. There's no evidence I've seen indicating they arose by natural means.
Believing Genesis would increase knowledge - but obviously, trying to allegorify it doesn't.
How do feathers fossilize?
If they do - this is another proof of Noahs Earthwide flood! If the feathers just sat around they'd decay already.
Right. Catastrofic Floods do!
A feather that is testably similar to a modern day bird feather. Eg a Finch or Chicken. Smoothness, flight-capability, etc.
How would you verify that?
Creation Week was a supernatural event, not natural one.
Tell us, how does God create the new Heavens & Earth? In your worldview, He probably scavenges the old, sin-riddled creation and recycles it, instead of using His Power to make a WHOLE NEW Heavens and earth (withOUT sin & its effects)! Hey, I'm simply following your view.
Self-describing.
-- God is SUPERnatural.
Ad-Infinitum Evolution!: V
"What did the bird evolve from?" "A pre bird." "What did prebird evolve from?" "A prepre bird." "And that?" "Preprepre-bird." "This is gonna go on forever, isn't it?" "Yep. Just be-lieve, in Evilution." "Pff. Genesis is better."
You are thinking of CiAFoPoT (guess the acronym!). Not the Athiest's Origin Tale pushed in Western school system.
Bioevo deals with history - physics deals with 'live science'. (no pun intended.)
One leads to tons of speculation, the other gives us clear benefits - like computers.
What makes you think that?
So Simply Truth.
Who Dares Oppose The Creator's Word daily here !?
The devil?
(just a guess, but at any case some liar)
The wicked ideas of evolution did not just pop up from empty space , but they sure do fill the space between the ears of those who did not take care who they listened to!
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change scutes to feathers in birds and crocodiles,
Such modules can enlarge or elongate appendages and cause feather keratin differentiation. For instance, when the Sox2 gene is activated, feather budding is triggered and scale formation is inhibited. The Grem1 gene, on the other hand, induces barb-like branching, the authors reported in the journal Molecular Biology and Evolution.
Molecular Biology and Evolution
Volume 35 Issue 2
Feb 2018
We identified feather-associated genes using genomic analyses. The candidate genes were tested by expressing them in chicken and alligator scale forming regions. Ectopic expression of these genes induced intermediate morphotypes between scales and feathers which revealed several major morphogenetic events along this path: Localized growth zone formation, follicle invagination, epithelial branching, feather keratin differentiation, and dermal papilla formation. In addition to molecules known to induce feathers on scales (retinoic acid, β-catenin), we identified novel scale-feather converters (Sox2, Zic1, Grem1, Spry2, Sox18) which induce one or more regulatory modules guiding these morphogenetic events. Some morphotypes resemble filamentous appendages found in feathered dinosaur fossils, whereas others exhibit characteristics of modern avian feathers.
Guesses don't leave fossils. So It was 100%, depending on what you mean by that. What's a 100% feather, in your beliefs?
Natural processes are the way God creates most things in this world.
You're willing to accept some of His word, but You just don't approve of the way He does it.
Evolution is observed everywhere in all sorts of populations. I think you are confused about what biological evolution is. What do you think it is?
(declines to say)
Exactly the point. Because you don't have any idea what it is, you're just flailing around in the dark. Why not go learn about it, and the evidence for it, and then come back and try to take part in the discussion?
They also have scutes. Scutes are scales that are found in birds, crocodiles, and dinosaurs (pretty much all archosaurs). The scutes of birds and crocodiles can be induced to form feathers. Which is not surprising, since many dinosaurs had feathers.
Such modules can enlarge or elongate appendages and cause feather keratin differentiation. For instance, when the Sox2 gene is activated, feather budding is triggered and scale formation is inhibited. The Grem1 gene, on the other hand, induces barb-like branching, the authors reported in the journal Molecular Biology and Evolution.
Molecular Biology and Evolution
Volume 35 Issue 2
Feb 2018
Multiple Regulatory Modules Are Required for Scale-to-Feather Conversion
We identified feather-associated genes using genomic analyses. The candidate genes were tested by expressing them in chicken and alligator scale forming regions. Ectopic expression of these genes induced intermediate morphotypes between scales and feathers which revealed several major morphogenetic events along this path: Localized growth zone formation, follicle invagination, epithelial branching, feather keratin differentiation, and dermal papilla formation. In addition to molecules known to induce feathers on scales (retinoic acid, β-catenin), we identified novel scale-feather converters (Sox2, Zic1, Grem1, Spry2, Sox18) which induce one or more regulatory modules guiding these morphogenetic events. Some morphotypes resemble filamentous appendages found in feathered dinosaur fossils, whereas others exhibit characteristics of modern avian feathers.
Buried in anoxic envirionments. There are many, many such instances. It requires stagnant, still water, and much slowly deposited mud/debris.
The YE creationist "flood" was supposed to be sudden and violent. So that would be inconsistent with feathers fossilizing.
Guesses don't leave fossils. So It was 100%, depending on what you mean by that. What's a 100% feather, in your beliefs?
See above. That's what they found in the fossil record on dinosaurs, and what they managed to induce in crocodiles.
As you learned, the "days" of creation were not literal 24-hour days. In fact, they weren't periods of time at all.
Natural processes are the way God creates most things in this world.
Observation. Almost everything in this world comes about by natural means.
And yet God says nature brought forth life on Earth. Why not set your pride aside and just believe it His way?
He doesn't say how. Instead of putting words in His mouth, why not just let it be as it will be?
You're willing to accept some of His word, but You just don't approve of the way He does it.
Nope. But if you can find any step from a protist to a bird that couldn't evolve, you might have a case. Darwin, BTW, just wrote that God created the first living things. He was willing to accept it God's way. Why aren't you?
Evolution is observed everywhere in all sorts of populations. I think you are confused about what biological evolution is. What do you think it is?
(declines to say)
Exactly the point. Because you don't have any idea what it is, you're just flailing around in the dark. Why not go learn about it, and the evidence for it, and then come back and try to take part in the discussion?
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