Are guns now part of our worship at church?

[Creative]

As I made clear, it is based on observation of what goes on in these forums, as well as what goes on in social media.

Phd. ?

 

[th1b.taylor]

I can't get on board with that all. The "agents" or "authorities" are the governing powers, of which in our societies police officers are not.


Yes, the entire Wehrmacht was an agent of God to prevent evil...

Not really but either Hitler nor any of the agents of his force could have been seated except for the love of the Jew (long, long story) and there are no government seats not filled by God that we do not deserve. (Rom. 13:1)

 

[Creative]

Look up Godwin's Law.

 

[Northman]

When YOU Can SAY THAT Only THE Twelve Were To baptise,AND Make disciples,same letter of Matthew and Luke mention both .

I know the twelve were apostles, none of us here are. Not really sure what you are on about

You can't take then wooden like that unless there's context of such.

No idea what you are saying here.

I'm not suguesting gospel spread by violence but neither can ignore this reality i may face.in my town there is an ex husband who has told my wife If I can't have you know one will.he has stalked me ,my wife ,and mother. My wife daughter at 13 pointed a loaded shotgun at him.said you may continue beating mother and have your brains splattered in the wall,or live.the choice is yours.in short if he threatened my church in the parking lot .just let him?

Are you actually confused? Why throw in hypotheticals about him threatening the church? Are you going to answer anything I've asked in return or are you just loading and firing?

People do get back at others at work and where ever.

Without a doubt.

The idea of a safe place in the world is long,long gone.

Never actually was safe.

 

[Northman]

Not really but either Hitler nor any of the agents of his force could have been seated except for the love of the Jew (long, long story) and there are no government seats not filled by God that we do not deserve. (Rom. 13:1)

That second line was a silly sarcastic reply to an equally silly statement.
Deserving? I'm of the mind we all deserve hell.

 

[Northman]

Look up Godwin's Law.

LOL Thank you. I had never heard of this before.

 

[th1b.taylor]

That second line was a silly sarcastic reply to an equally silly statement.
Deserving? I'm of the mind we all deserve hell.

This reply is uncalled for. I was neither trying to be silly, that is for the homos and girls, I was quite serious and the Jew of Jewish faith and the Messianic Jew would never move back to Israel without the persecution of Hitler and God knew it. It is cushy out here and rougher than a three year old con Cob in the Middle East. You might want to learn about your Jewish brothers

 

[JPPT1974]

Sadly no place is safe these days. Not even a place in the church of worship. It is about getting those people off the streets and not letting felons have any access to guns and getting lone wolf terrorists and gunmen off the streets before tragedy happens.
Sadly it is far too often!

 

[Northman]

This reply is uncalled for. I was neither trying to be silly, that is for the homos and girls, I was quite serious and the Jew of Jewish faith and the Messianic Jew would never move back to Israel without the persecution of Hitler and God knew it. It is cushy out here and rougher than a three year old con Cob in the Middle East. You might want to learn about your Jewish brothers

I was being silly to a silly statement made to me by another person, not you. I was not making a case for the wehrmacht, it was sarcasm.

 

[jasonc]

I know the twelve were apostles, none of us here are. Not really sure what you are on about


No idea what you are saying here.


Are you actually confused? Why throw in hypotheticals about him threatening the church? Are you going to answer anything I've asked in return or are you just loading and firing?


Without a doubt.


Never actually was safe.

Never hypothetical ,I have passed him at times.you wante to agree to simply not defend myself nor wife by your interpretation of scripture literally.I have refused to work on his car for fear of him knowing my job location years ago.

If I were to apply it literally ,simply take a bullet ,defense by any other means violate that same rule, turn the other cheek means Dont fight back at all.

I was raised to be a total Pacifist.no punching back,no self defense ,same interpretation. This is not your position.just dont use a gun,I bring it up because you dodge the response of How you would respond ,just sit in church and knowing it's a possibility now and just hope you live ,dnot train with cops for active shooters.yet lock your car doors at church and at home in case of theft.

 

[Edward]

My pastor noted at last nights' service of only about 40 people that there were at least 4 people carrying guns, our doors were locked, and so we had nothing to worry about.
My first response was shock, but then I realized where I was.
Inside an imperfect church.
So is this what our Christianity has come to?
Our guns vs. theirs?

It's always been like that Brother. Just because God's people have His protection, doesn't mean that, they shouldn't build a wall around the city or defend it with swords.

Why should churches be gun free zones? That's crazy. I've carried in church before. Not always, just if I feel led to. It's about the individual. I know Pastors who carry in church while delivering the message on Sunday. He has stood there and said to the people, oh this is not a gun free zone...Those times I carried in church no one knew. No one got shot. I shook lots of hands and everyone was very friendly.

It being church doesn't mean you don't need a gun there. If the congregation had in been armed in that one church, so many people would not be dead.

 

[Edward]

He was ordered to do so.
Who orders Christians to kill?
Show me, who?

Nobody ordered Moses to kill that Egyptian that was roughing up the Hebrew guy. Moses came over and took him out in defense of His people, one of his own. What the heck is wrong with that?

 

[Northman]

Never hypothetical

So he actually threatened your church?

you wante to agree to simply not defend myself nor wife by your interpretation of scripture literally.

No

If I were to apply it literally ,simply take a bullet ,defense by any other means violate that same rule, turn the other cheek means Dont fight back at all.

You are going to apply it however you want to apply it.

This is not your position.just dont use a gun,I bring it up because you dodge the response of How you would respond

I dodged nothing. So far it's just been you wildly throwing hoping something would stick. You haven't actually asked my position. What you have done is ask a series of questions that led to to a wrong conclusion about what my position is.

just sit in church and knowing it's a possibility now and just hope you live

I'm really not worried about the sensationalism of it all. I'm not going to sit a thousand miles from where this happened and worry about how it could just happen here too. That's the very definition of living in fear. We have been getting slaughtered since the beginning, nothing has changed.

The only thing I've actually been trying to tell you is that people are leaning on scripture, you start talking about a whole bunch of scenarios that you perceive would permit you to act. You back this up with the laws of the nation. None of that is any good against scripture and that's what you are facing, so face it on scriptural grounds.

 

[jasonc]

So he actually threatened your church?


No


You are going to apply it however you want to apply it.


I dodged nothing. So far it's just been you wildly throwing hoping something would stick. You haven't actually asked my position. What you have done is ask a series of questions that led to to a wrong conclusion about what my position is.


I'm really not worried about the sensationalism of it all. I'm not going to sit a thousand miles from where this happened and worry about how it could just happen here too. That's the very definition of living in fear. We have been getting slaughtered since the beginning, nothing has changed.

The only thing I've actually been trying to tell you is that people are leaning on scripture, you start talking about a whole bunch of scenarios that you perceive would permit you to act. You back this up with the laws of the nation. None of that is any good against scripture and that's what you are facing, so face it on scriptural grounds.

If you can show me where Jesus literally in the context of 1st century ad Roman rule that they had to allow bodily harm of their persons ,post said verse

Turn the other cheek means literally that.hits the one side let him hint he other.

If a man sues, no court ,no insurance ,sign the stuff,give cash over.in the first century there was several things the Romans did.the asking of a cloak,to carry his gear for one mile

You are implying that implies you can't defend yourself
A slap to the face was an insult not am intent of bodily arm.notice theft and murder weren't listed .

You just confirmed by saying yes I should defend myself ,yet want scripture to support that.thats implied in the torah and regulated. A theif caught at night could be killed,during the day he waa to repay your loss fourfold.

The idea of forgiving your enemies isn't new,it was first said by Moses!

Context of those pacifists position or semi in your case.i can any force but a gun yet with my.training ,a choke will likely cause his death.lethal intent will be met with the same. He chokes out,limbs break,or is knocked out.

I'm old ,I'm not playing with a knife holder if I have a gun

 

[th1b.taylor]

I was being silly to a silly statement made to me by another person, not you. I was not making a case for the wehrmacht, it was sarcasm.

Mistakes happen but you quote me and I and everyone else will read it as pointed at my remark. Shalom!

 

[reba]

We are the Church... The building is just a building.. Carrying a gun in a building is just that.. carrying a gun into a building.... Home church store, garage a building is a building..man made structure.. We are the Church..His disciples were part of the Church when Jesus kinda scolded them over the priest ear
Mat_26:51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
Mat_26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

and when He told them

Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

We often over look the the spirit of the Word

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[Free]

You in your charge against me in you post before asking this question that you directed at me. And now your going to say your very clear words did not mean what they clearly express?

The following is the post in which you are claiming I put words in your mouth, the post you quoted in your charge against me:

"Nope. You can't get that from what I have said. What I have given is straight from Scripture and shows that Jesus likely did not mean that the disciples should go out and arm themselves, and most certainly not in self-defence from persecution. That would go against everything else he taught in reference to violence and one's enemies."

You responded: "Free, I have mentioned this many times and from a Moderator it is really not a good thin to put unspoken words, your words on another. I find it particularly offensive and an unacceptable defense for one's position when they, falsely, charge with words neither spoken, written nor thought."

My initial response above was to this post of yours: "Using the logic you are trying to use here of using the scriptures from Luke 22 and updating the armament then for a Church of three hundred we would see men armed with AR-15s stationed inside the Church and at 2 per 11 persons we need about 27. I believe that is a little rsdical, myself."

Anyone in these forums can easily see that in no way whatsoever did I do what you claim. I simply stated that you are wrong in your claim about my logic and what I was saying. There is absolutely nothing in my response that puts words in your mouth. It is you that has charged me falsely.

 

[Free]

"Jesus told His Disciples not to be the sacred offering." Where did Jesus say this, exactly?

God/Jesus has said that we are not to fear 365 times from Genesis to Revelation and you're telling me you cannot find one of them?

I am asking for a verse where "Jesus told his disciples not to be the sacred offering." What does not fearing have to do with what I am asking?

That God tells us not to fear many times from Genesis to Revelation rather supports my whole point: do no fear man and their guns; trust in God.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I am asking for a verse where "Jesus told his disciples not to be the sacred offering." What does not fearing have to do with what I am asking?

That God tells us not to fear many times from Genesis to Revelation rather supports my whole point: do no fear man and their guns; trust in God.

I have not said a word about a sacred offering and I believe we both need to forgive and agree to disagree.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

And you are guilty of acting like the south end of a Jack ass headed North. You ask me a question and I award your insolent attitude with the correct answer and not liking the Perfectly Correct answer, you try to engage me in a Teenage Girl Fight by insulting my intellect like I some crass assed Atheist? Pardner, since you returned and changed your screen name you have also steered hard left of humanity.

I will not address your filthy accusations.
It is un-Christian like for me to do so.