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Are Heaven and Hell real places ?

Apousía said:
That's right, in 1st Temple Judaism era, Hades was the abode of the righteous who awaited judgement day

A fry cry from what is usually peddled these days
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Help me understand this a bit better if you would. The way I understand it, Hades is from the greek, and comes from greek mythology. Hades is actually the brother of Zeus, and the abode of Hades, is also called Hades. From what I gather from greek mythology, is that everyone went to Hades when they died, without exception. However, there is a place in Hades, in the deepest depths that the wicked go, and that place is Tartarus.

So, what I don't understand is how you say Hades was the abode of the righteous during the 1st temple. The way I understand things, is when Solomon built the temple, Sheol and the "Pit" were the terms used for the abode of the dead. Later, Gehenna came about in Hebrew theology, but that's another discussion all together and for the sake of muddling the conversation, lets just stick with Hades and Sheol.

My point is this. How can Hades be a first temple term, when it's not a Hebrew term, and is from greek mythology. Furthermore, you don't see the word Hades in the OT...
 
If you "go somewhere" after you die, what is the significance of the resurrection? Really think about that. The hope the Bible speaks of is a resurrection to life! It starts in the old testament and is echoed throughout the scriptures all the way to Revelation! Jesus says himself, "I shall raise him up on the last day!"
Again, we would do well to put preconceptions and cultural values aside and really inspect, with a humble eye, what is said throughout scripture. Existance in gehenna, hades/sheol, or tartarus for man for an eternity behond the grave is simply not mentioned. Even the spirit beings held in chains in Tartarus were said to be there awaiting a judgment. Death and Hades itself are SPECIFICALLY talked about as one day being thrown into the lake that burns with fire and brimstone to be destroyed! The concept of a hell where departed spirits go is a reach even if one makes the case that it is a temporary "Hadean" holding place until the judgment as the bulk of scripture doesn't side with such an assertion. All that is useable is Luke 16 and when viewed in the greater context (along with the previous chapter) where Jesus is rebuking the religious leaders of the day, the case can be made that Abraham's Bosom and the place of torments across the gulf are symbolic tools Jesus uses to make a greater point about who are truly Abraham's seed.
As for Heaven, from scripture, and let's be specific here, who if anyone was promised a life there?
 
Joh 14:1 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
Joh 14:4 And you know the way to where I am going.”

2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Bolding is mine.

Sounds as if Jesus and Paul believed heaven is a real place....
 
civilwarbuff said:
Joh 14:1 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
Joh 14:4 And you know the way to where I am going.”

2Co 5:8 Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Bolding is mine.

Sounds as if Jesus and Paul believed heaven is a real place....
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The scriptures paint Heaven as an actual real abode for certain, but, does not promise it to all believers.....
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-heaven.32466/
 
I have deleted a number of posts for various violations of our ToS. There's no excuse for sarcasm, animosity, personal characterizations, and so forth. Scripture instructs us to give a defense for the hope that lies within us with gentleness and respect, meakness and fear and to be kind to one another, tender hearted, and to love one another. Time to practice what we preach.
 
Apousía said:
" You are going to hell "

...it took on a rather comical air, in that the person doing the damning probably has zero clue about the origins of these words or what they actually mean

What you really have are Heaven and Hell describing antithetical concepts

Knowledge ( pit ) VS ignorance ( Hades ) ( of God and Godly matters )

Feel free to move this to a more apropros section if need be

Cheers
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Read the Discourse of Hades by Josephus. He describes what the Jews believed about Hades. You can find it on line. Here is the Thing thou, the place of the wicked dead is so terrible that Christ says it would be better for a man to be tied to a millstone and thrown into the river than to be judged for corrupting a person with child like faith in God. (Luke 17:1-3) So what ever it is, you don't want to go there....unless your Macho Man. But Macho will dissolve at the judgment, leaving only the man and his reward. I put it this way not to be sarcastic, but many men think you have to be weak to be a born again believer, but the fear of the lord is the beginning of knowledge (strength and hope through faith) by the vision of God's Charity. (1 Cor. 13:1-13) (Luke 16:11-32)
 
Apousía said:
Not when you break the topic down it doesn't

Just like when you break down the Greek in the verse people use to support the rapture, from Thessalonians, it doesn't have anything to do with a literal rapture

The Greek word " clouds " means " the multitudes ", ( of people ) not literal clouds, " air " is from " pneuma " , meaning " spirit "

Besides, I feel like God is showing me these things directly, to teach to you, so you know the truth, but I will cover that in my thread on what happened when I was healed that night of my brain cancer, by God, so I don't say these things out of malice, rather the love of truth

The way I see it, looking at the saying " Truth shall set you free, but at first it will make you upset ", demands that one examine the opposite claim:

" Lies shall set you free, but at first they shall make you upset "

If that were true, the Bible wouldn't directly state that in the last days people will seek out teachers to tickle their ears with lies

Thanks for your post !

Cheers

:)
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The "Rapture" is a real event. You would do best if you would follow the Scriptures under prayer and guidance then to follow a church doctrine to see if it is true.
 
If you say so

I certainly don't agree, but I do feel like if what you say is true, then it will be shown to be true

If it isn't......
 
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