Are the "dead in Christ" deceased or spiritually dead?

[Dan Edwin]

THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST – 1 THESSALONIANS 4:16

For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Because different Greek words in the New Testament are translated to mean “deadâ€Â, the word “dead†can mean died, or it can mean spiritually dead (separated from God because of sin). The next verse shows this. "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead" (Matthew 8:22). Those who are “dead†(have died) can not bury those who are “dead†(have died), but those who are “dead†(spiritually) can bury those who are “dead†(have died).

And the dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16b). Who are the “dead in Christ†that shall rise first? Are the “dead in Christ†believers that died (deceased) or are they spiritually dead believers that need to be saved by being reconciled to God? The following verses help us see who they are.

Whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die (John 11:26a). Those who are alive in Christ and believe (born of the Spirit) never die because the Spirit of Christ (God) is the is the life within us. How can the “dead in Christ†be born again believers that have died (deceased), if those who live and believe in Christ shall never die? When born again believers depart from this world, they do not “dieâ€Â, they fall asleep. We shall never die because Christ, Who is alive forevermore (Revelations 1:18), is the life within us (Galatians 2:20). We are "married" to God as the bride of Christ.

Whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die (John 11:26a). This is because: It is appointed for men to die once (Hebrews 9:27a). But when believers are joined together with the Spirit of Christ, we are joined together with Him into His death, and have “died†with Christ. You died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God (Colossians 3:3). The Bible refers to those who “pass away†as “asleep in Christâ€Â.

God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:14b), Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord (1 Thessalonians 4:17). God will bring those who “sleep†in Christ with Him. Those who "sleep in Jesus" are not "dead".

The “dead in Christ†shall rise first, then we who are “alive†(alive in Christ) and remain (yet on earth) shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. In order to be caught up to together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, believers that are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins (“dead in Christâ€Â) need to be reconciled to God to be made “alive†in Christ.

Believers are “in Christ†by the Spirit of the Son of God within (1 John 5:10-13). But even though we are “in Christ†we can become spiritually “deadâ€Â, separated from God the Father as prodigals by pursuing fleshly lusts and the ways of the world. Believers that are “dead in Christ†need to repent and confess their trespasses to be made alive in Christ by being reconciled to God when forgiven us of all trespasses.

Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God (John 3:5b). How can we know we are born of the Spirit to enter the Kingdom of God? If we know that He is righteous, we know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him (1 John 2:29). Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother (1 John 3:10). We are not saved by our works, but our works of righteousness are a testimony that we are born of the Spirit as Christ lives in and through us.

Then the King will say to those on His right hand (the righteous), 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me' (Matthew 25:34-36).

"The righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me' (Matthew 25:37-40). Let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous (1 John 3:7).

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). In our world today, pornography, drugs, and gambling are additional sins of the flesh we need to turn from.

As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God (John 1:12-13). Those who receive or believe in the Lord Jesus Christ have power (by the Spirit within) to be born of God and saved as a child of God. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." (Acts 16:31). But just because we believe in Christ, may not mean we have been reconciled to God (born again) and saved. “Shall be savedâ€Â, may not mean, “have been savedâ€Â.

We repent and are baptized with water according to the command by Jesus (Matthew 28:19-20). This is a testimony of our faith to have past sins forgiven by the grace of God. We repent by confessing and turning from sin to be made alive with Christ and saved by being reconciled to God when forgiven of all trespasses. We forgive others of their trespasses against us, and try to have others forgive us of our trespasses. We repent of sins of the flesh (including hate and covetousness) to be forgiven of all trespasses and be “alive†in Christ by being reconciled to God, before we can enter the Kingdom of God. It is harder for a rich man in bondage to the sin of covetousness to enter the Kingdom of God, than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. We want heaven, but the wealthy often love money more than the Lord or their neighbor in need.

Behold, I speak a mystery to you; we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed; in a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet. For a trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). Believers, spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, repent and confess their sins to be born again and saved by being reconciled to God when forgiven of all trespasses. Because God the Father (eternal life) and God the Son are One, we have eternal life by the Spirit of God the Son of God within us. We are raised up together with Christ by His Spirit within us, from corruption to incorruption, from weakness to power, and from dishonor to glory. God works with us to make us holy by purifying us of sin as Jesus Christ is formed in us. Our mortal body is “changed†in the “blink†of an eye to put on immortality (perfection) when sanctified completely by baptism with the Holy Spirit of God to be a “son†or “daughter†of God and heir of the Kingdom of God.

Until we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ (Ephesians 4:13). Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins (James 5:19-20).

Take care, trust the LORD and God bless

 

[Vic C.]

Reconciliation begins while one is alive. If you die never having repented and receiving the Grace of God and salvation through Jesus, there is no guarantee nor is there concrete scriptural proof of reconciliation upon the Resurrection. Purgatory is a debatable doctrine and Universal Reconciliation is highly argumented, not to mention, a taboo subject on this site.

The Dead in Christ are those who have been given the free gift of salvation through the Grace of the Only One who can save, but have died before Jesus returned. They, in a sense, are alive spiritually, but dead physically. Spiritually dead is what we are before being born again or born from above.

Paul was writing to believers, whether they were already physically dead or still alive. He was not referring to the unjust who have died before they repented.

 

[Dan Edwin]

BY YOUR RESPONSE WE DO NOT BELIEVE THE POST WAS UNDERSTOOD.

Reconciliation begins while one is alive.

YES.

If you die never having repented and receiving the Grace of God and salvation through Jesus, there is no guarantee nor is there concrete scriptural proof of reconciliation upon the Resurrection.

NO ARGUMENT.

Purgatory is a debatable doctrine and Universal Reconciliation is highly argumented, not to mention, a taboo subject on this site.

AGREED.

The Dead in Christ are those who have been given the free gift of salvation through the Grace of the Only One who can save, but have died before Jesus returned. They, in a sense, are alive spiritually, but dead physically. Spiritually dead is what we are before being born again or born from above.

THE "DEAD IN CHRIST" ARE BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS WITH THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST IN THEM, THAT HAVE NOT BELIEVED AND REPENTED TO BE MADE SPIRITUALLY ALIVE IN CHRIST (SAVED) BY BEING RECONCILED TO GOD. BELIEVERS THAT "PASS AWAY" ARE NOT "DEAD", THEY ARE "ASLEEP IN JESUS". THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY ALIVE EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE PUT OFF THEIR EARTHEN BODY. WE ARE SPIRITULLY DEAD BEFORE WE ARE BORN AGAIN (WHEN FORGIVEN OF ALL TRESPASSES), BUT BORN OF THE SPIRIT AND ALIVE FOREVERMORE AS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST (EVEN AFTER WE "PASS AWAY").

Paul was writing to believers, whether they were already physically dead or still alive. He was not referring to the unjust who have died before they repented.

PAUL WROTE TO BELIEVERS IN RESPECT TO LOVED ONES THAT HAD "PASSED AWAY" (ASLEEP IN JESUS), AS TO WHO WOULD GO TO BE WITH THE LORD FIRST. PAUL ANSWERS, GOD BRINGS THOSE WHO ARE ASLEEP IN JESUS WITH HIM. THEY DO NOT RISE FROM THE DEAD BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY ALIVE WITH THE LORD FOREVERMORE. PAUL SAYS, AFTER THE "DEAD IN CHRIST" RISE FIRST, THEN WE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM (THOSE ASLEEP IN JESUS) IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR.

TAKE CARE, AND MAY GOD BLESS

 

[Imagican]

BY YOUR RESPONSE WE DO NOT BELIEVE THE POST WAS UNDERSTOOD.

[quote="vic C.":2ba83]Reconciliation begins while one is alive.

YES.

If you die never having repented and receiving the Grace of God and salvation through Jesus, there is no guarantee nor is there concrete scriptural proof of reconciliation upon the Resurrection.

NO ARGUMENT.

Purgatory is a debatable doctrine and Universal Reconciliation is highly argumented, not to mention, a taboo subject on this site.

AGREED.

The Dead in Christ are those who have been given the free gift of salvation through the Grace of the Only One who can save, but have died before Jesus returned. They, in a sense, are alive spiritually, but dead physically. Spiritually dead is what we are before being born again or born from above.

THE "DEAD IN CHRIST" ARE BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS WITH THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST IN THEM, THAT HAVE NOT BELIEVED AND REPENTED TO BE MADE SPIRITUALLY ALIVE IN CHRIST (SAVED) BY BEING RECONCILED TO GOD. BELIEVERS THAT "PASS AWAY" ARE NOT "DEAD", THEY ARE "ASLEEP IN JESUS". THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY ALIVE EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE PUT OFF THEIR EARTHEN BODY. WE ARE SPIRITULLY DEAD BEFORE WE ARE BORN AGAIN (WHEN FORGIVEN OF ALL TRESPASSES), BUT BORN OF THE SPIRIT AND ALIVE FOREVERMORE AS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST (EVEN AFTER WE "PASS AWAY").

Paul was writing to believers, whether they were already physically dead or still alive. He was not referring to the unjust who have died before they repented.

PAUL WROTE TO BELIEVERS IN RESPECT TO LOVED ONES THAT HAD "PASSED AWAY" (ASLEEP IN JESUS), AS TO WHO WOULD GO TO BE WITH THE LORD FIRST. PAUL ANSWERS, GOD BRINGS THOSE WHO ARE ASLEEP IN JESUS WITH HIM. THEY DO NOT RISE FROM THE DEAD BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY ALIVE WITH THE LORD FOREVERMORE. PAUL SAYS, AFTER THE "DEAD IN CHRIST" RISE FIRST, THEN WE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM (THOSE ASLEEP IN JESUS) IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR.

TAKE CARE, AND MAY GOD BLESS[/quote:2ba83]

I believe it was misunderstood, for I do not believe Vic would argue against one point offered above. For we have been told that this is so. Those that are in Christ sleep until awoken. Those that are alive at the time that Christ defeats the Beast will be 'changed'. There will be a 'new earth'. These are words that have been offered.

There is no reason to believe that those that have died in the flesh but are 'dead in Christ' are 'spiritually dead'. For God is not the God of the dead but of the living. If the body is dead then the spirit must certainly live on for there to be existence in 'sleep'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Vic C.]

I don't believe I misunderstood anything, guys. No offense.

Lets boil it down to the question presented:

And the dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16b). Who are the “dead in Christ†that shall rise first? Are the “dead in Christ†believers that died (deceased) or are they spiritually dead believers that need to be saved by being reconciled to God? The following verses help us see who they are.

The dead in Christ are the believers who have died (sleep) before His return. There is no such thing as a spiritually dead believer. We gained a quickened spirit when we became believers.

Eph 2:1 And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

The scriptures go as far as saying this:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

It's repeated here:

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Peter says it well here:

1 Pet 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

The phrase "spiritually dead believer" is an oxymoron. A spiritually dead person does not have the spirit of God in them and as such, cannot possibly be believers.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This is a fundamental truth. Now, as to whether or not God chooses to quicken one's spirit at the final resurrection (Rev. 20) , that's His business to know, not ours. This is not the resurrection Paul writes about in 1 THESS. 4:16. These are physically dead people. Of course they only died a physical death because as believers, they are still "spiritually alive in Christ, but they are also physically dead while still 'alive' in Christ.

Two types of death; the believer however, only suffers the physical aspect of death.

 

[Dan Edwin]

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name (John 1:12).
HAVING THE SPIRIT WITHIN US GIVES US POWER TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD, BUT JUST BECAUSE WE BELIEVE DOES NOT MAKE US CHILDREN OF GOD.

We implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20b).
IF THEY ALREADY WERE RECONCILED TO GOD, THEN PAUL WOULD NOT IMPLORE THEM TO BE RECONCILED TO GOD. WE CAN BELIEVE CHRIST IS THE WAY TO GOD THE FATHER, BUT IF WE CONTINUE TO WILLFULLY LIVE IN SIN INDICATES WE HAVE NOT RETURNED TO GOD THE FATHER.
WE CONFESS AND REPENT OF OUR SIN WITH OUR MOUTH UNTIL WE ARE FORGIVEN OF ALL TRESPASSES TO BE MADE ALIVE TOGETHER WITH CHRIST AND SAVED.

THE BELIEVERS REFERRED TO IN THESE PASSAGES REPENTED AND CONFESSED THEIR TRESPASSES UNTIL THEY WERE FORGIVEN OF ALL TRESPASSES TO BE MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST AND SAVED. Galatians 5:24, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Ephesians 2:1-3, 1 Peter 4:1-3.

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but is passed from death into life (John 5:24).
WE PASS FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE BY BEING RECONCILED TO THE SPIRIT OF GOD WITHIN US WHEN FORGIVEN OF ALL TRESPASSES BY REPENTING AND CONFESSING OUR SIN. IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE, DOES NOT MEAN HAS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE; JUST AS SHALL BE SAVED DOES NOT MEAN HAS BEEN SAVED.

We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. (1 John 3:14)
HE WHO DOES NOT LOVE HIS BROTHER ABIDES IN DEATH!
Whoever does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10b).

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning (1 John 3:8a).
Whoever has been born of God does not sin (1 John 3:9a). In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: (1 John 3:10a).

Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God (1 John 4:7).

Everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. (1 John 2:29b)
We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; (1 John 5:18a)

CHRIST CAME TO SAVE US FROM OUR SINS; IF WE CHOOSE TO LIVE IN THEM, THEN WE HAVE NOT BEEN SAVED FROM THEM. THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM AMONG BELIEVERS TODAY, THEY ARE TOLD THAT IF THEY ACCEPT CHRIST THEY HAVE BEEN SAVED, WHICH IS A LIE! GOD FORGIVES US AS WE REPENT AND CONFESS OUR SIN UNTIL WE ARE FORGIVEN OF ALL TRESPASSES TO BE MADE ALIVE TOGETHER WITH CHRIST AND SAVED. WE GO ON TO "PERFECTION" WHEN SANCTIFIED BY THE BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD.

Take care, trust the Lord, and God bless

 

[KingCrimson]

If I may briefly interject something, as I see it this seems to boil down to a Once Saved Always Saved debate, doesn't it? Whether believers may be dead in Christ or not, that's the fundamental question, isn't it? Which is virtually the same thing.

I apologize if I've misunderstood things, I'm just trying to simplify things here. Call a spade a spade, if you will, Oscar Wilde aside.

 

[Dan Edwin]

And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' And they began to be merry (Luke 15:23-24).

MY SON WAS DEAD - SPIRITUALLY SEPARATED BY SIN - BUT NOW HAS REPENTED AND RETURNED TO THE FATHER TO BE ALIVE!!! RECONCILED TO GOD TO BE ALIVE AGAIN, BORN AGAIN!!

Take care, and trust the Lord

 

[Bick]

Quote from Dan"
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16). Because different Greek words in the New Testament are translated to mean “deadâ€Â, the word “dead†can mean died, or it can mean spiritually dead (separated from God because of sin). The next verse shows this. "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead" (Matthew 8:22). Those who are “dead†(have died) can not bury those who are “dead†(have died), but those who are “dead†(spiritually) can bury those who are “dead†(have died).

And the dead in Christ shall rise first (1 Thessalonians 4:16b). Who are the “dead in Christ†that shall rise first? Are the “dead in Christ†believers that died (deceased) or are they spiritually dead believers that need to be saved by being reconciled to God? The following verses help us see who they are."

MY COMMENTS: From my Young's Concordance, in the NT: "nekros" = "dead"...either noun or adjective; "apothnesko" = "to die away"; "thnesko" = "to die"; "koimao" = "to put to sleep"; "teleutao" = "to end (life)"; and a few more, all which were translated "dead."

I'm convinced we must read the whole context, to understand what "dead" is referring to.

At this point, I can see "dead" being either "literal" or "figurative." While "spiritual death" is a popular invented theological term, I do not agree with the term.
NOTE: The opposite of "literal" is not "spiritual."

Why? Because, a study of "spirit" shows me that it basically mens "invisible force, energy, power." As man breathes, it is the breath of the spirit of life (Gen.7:22); and God is forming the spirit of man within him (Zech. 12:1).
Therefore, to me, "spiritually dead", is like saying "life-death."

Yes, all mankind are sinners, but being alive they have their own spirit. It is true today, that believers in Christ are now indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

Why cannot the verse in Matt. 8:22 be interpreted thus: "..let the dead (figurative) bury their own dead (literal)"?

Let's look at a another verse: 1 Tim. 5:6, NIV, "But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives."
NOW, here Paul is writing about a Christian widow, who, if she lives for pleasure, is dead even though she lives. We must analyse this. Can we say she is "spiritually dead" even though alive?

OF COURSE NOT! "dead" is used as a figure of speech, because she lives for pleasure than for helping or blessing others in the local church.

THEREFORE: Assume "dead" to be literal, unless from the context it could be figurative.
The dead in Christ are those who have died, but are now dead, literally.

There are a number of verses where "dead" is interpreted as "Spiritually dead." One of them is Eph. 2:1 "As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins..." NIV. Yet, consistently, it makes more sense to me, to consider it to be "figuratively dead."

 

[Free]

1Th 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

"Dead in Christ" clearly refers to those who are physically dead. The whole context is that of physical resurrection.