Bible Study Are there any problems with various translations?

[tzalam2]

Revelation 22:18-21 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

NIV: I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen

NASB: 18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;

19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly " Amen Come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

New Living Trans: 18And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone removes any of the words of this prophetic book, God will remove that person's share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.

20He who is the faithful witness to all these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon!"

Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with you all.

The Message: 18I give fair warning to all who hear the words of the prophecy of this book: If you add to the words of this prophecy, God will add to your life the disasters written in this book; 19if you subtract from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will subtract your part from the Tree of Life and the Holy City that are written in this book.

20He who testifies to all these things says it again: "I'm on my way! I'll be there soon!"

Yes! Come, Master Jesus!

21The grace of the Master Jesus be with all of you.

Oh, Yes!

American Standard Version:
18 I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book:

19 and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.

20 He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with the saints. Amen.

 

[tzalam2]

NIV authors DELIBERATELY leave out KEY TRUTHS. They chose to leave out
Truths about the Holy Spirit!
If you don’t think this is blasphemy of the highest order, I’m astounded.
The purpose of these comparisons is mainly to show you that anyone telling you there is no substantive difference between the KJV and modern Bibles is either ignorant or intentionally deceiving you. You simply can’t see the differences and honestly say they do not exist!

KJV: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Niv: For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.

KJV: Ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit.
NIV: you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth.

K:For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
N:OMITTED

FOR MORE: http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/preeminence.html proofs that the
NIV deliberately leaves JESUS CHRIST OUT of scores of Scripture.

A sample of what’s in store at that website:
KJV: Ro 1:16 gospel of Christ
NIV: gospel
Eph 3:9
KJV: created all things by Jesus Christ
NIV: created all things

KJV: 1Ti 2:7 truth in Christ
NIV: truth

MORE PROOF FOR YOU:
KJV: If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
NIV: OMITTED

K:And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God.
N: But every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.

K: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it.
N: The nations will walk by its light.

KJV: Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
NIV: "from such withdraw thyself" is omitted


KJV: Let us not fight against God.
NIV: OMITTED


K: Why callest thou me good?
N: "Why do you ask me about what is good?"

K: Ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
N: You do not know the day or the hour.

K:how hard it is for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
N.how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!

K:And Joseph and his mother,,
N, The child's father and mother.

K:Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
NIV:
Man does not live on bread alone.

K: Get thee behind me, Satan.
N:OMITTED

K: He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
N: He who believes has everlasting life.

KJV: And when they heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out. .
NIV: those who heard began to go away.

KJV: I must work the works of him that sent me.
NIV: We must do the work of him who sent me.

K: I and my Father are one
N: I and the Father are one.

K: that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
N.he would place one of his descendants on his throne.

KJV: Thou shalt not bear false witness.
NIV: OMITTED

K : In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.
N;In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

K: God was manifest in the flesh.
N: He appeared in a body.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/various.html


FOR MORE: http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/preeminence.html proofs that the
NIV deliberately leaves JESUS CHRIST OUT of scores of Scripture.

A sample of what’s in store at that website:
KJV: Ro 1:16 gospel of Christ
NIV: gospel
Eph 3:9
KJV: created all things by Jesus Christ
NIV: created all things

KJV: 1Ti 2:7 truth in Christ
NIV: truth

 

[cubedbee]

The KJV is the flawed translation that falsely adds to the Word of God. The translators of the KJV were biased authors without the knowledge we have today, and their translation is not even close to the best that we have. There is not one single truth in the Bible that is found in the KJV that cannot be found in the NIV. KJV-onlyists rely on lies and deceptions to support their irrational belief that the KJV is in any way superior to other translations.

 

[asb4God]

Yes!

Yes, there are a lot of problems with the KJV.

Let me show you one example, from Romans 1:16

The first portion of Romans 1:16 in the NA27 says the following, in Greek: (I am taking this information from the book sitting in front of me: Novum Testamentum Graece, by Nestle-Aland 27th ed. (a.k.a. NA 27), which as you probably are aware is the Greek New Testament in Greek by NA. This is the standard Greek text currently in use. At the bottom of the page is a run down of alternative Greek readings and the locations where that alternative reading is found in the ancient manuscripts. The bottom section is called the Aparatus.)

Romans 1:16a - Greek with word for word translation
Ou gar epaischunomai to euangelion, dunamis gar theou estin
Not for I am ashamed the Gospel , power for of God it is

This is how it reads in these various versions - you will note that "of Christ" is only found in the KJV.

KJV Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

NIV Romans 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

NAS Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

NAU Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Now let's look at exactly why what the KJV adds incorrectly the rest of the versions omit correctly...

1. The Greek text in the body of the page does not have of Christ, which in Greek is tou Christou. This is because Nestle-Aland do not consider it to be original. Let me demonstrate why...

2. The Aparatus (footnotes of your study Bible, bottom of the Greek Bible) tells us that of Christ IS found in the following manuscripts: (PLEASE pay attention to the dates when these manuscripts were created many hundreds of years ago. The dates do NOT reflect when these manuscripts were found, but rather when they were created!)

Dc - A "Western" text family text from the 12 Century A.D. (not good)
044 - An Alexandrian text from the 8th Century A.D. (better)
M - "majority text" - a catch-all for a "lot" of manuscripts of later dating

3. The Aparatus tells us that of Christ is NOT found in the following manuscripts:

P26 - circa 600 A.D. - considered a "consistently cited witness of the first order" (good)
(01) - 4th Century A.D. - an Alexandrian "category I" text ("Manuscripts of a very special quality which should always be considered in establishing the original text.") - the earliest of any document with Romans 1:16. (best)
A (02) - 4th C. A.D. - Alexandrian "category I" (very good)
B (03) - 4th C. A.D. - Alexandrian "category I" (very good)
C (04) - 5th C. A.D. - Alexandrian "category II" ("Manuscripts of a special quality, but distinguished from manuscripts of category I by the presence of alien influences (particularly of the Byzantine text), and yet of importance for establishing the original text.") (very good)
D (06) - 6th C. A.D. - Western "category II" (good)
G (012) - 9th C. A.D. - Western "category II" (good)
33 - 9th C. A.D. - Alexandrian "category I" (good)
81 - 1044 A.D. - Alexandrian "category II" (good)
1505 - 11th C. A.D.
(and more not listed here)
lat - "represents the support of the Vulgate"
sy - "All the Syriac versions extant for the passage witness to the Greek reading."
co - "All the Coptic versions extant for the passage witness to the Greek reading."

So, the BIG QUESTION:Why would an 8th Century text (044) have "of Christ" when so many earlier manuscripts do not??

1. Notice that the 8th C. text (044) is Alexandrian - just like all those earlier (and later!) manuscripts from the same Alexandrian family. This means that something unique happened to bring "of Christ" into this text family at this ONE point in time, but it DID NOT continue thereafter until it found its way back into the Western text of the 12th C...
2a. The Answer Part I: Notice that "Gospel of Christ" is found in the following verses: Romans 15:19; 1 Cor. 9:12; 2 Cor. 2:12, 9:13, 10:14; Galatians 1:7; Philippians 1:27; 1 Thess 3:2.
2b. The Answer Part II: "Gospel of Christ" is settled doctrine according to the Scripture, right? Yes.
2c. The Answer Part III: When a scribe came along and was copying what became known to us as (044) he noticed that it only said "Gospel." Knowing that elsewhere in Scripture it says "Gospel of Christ," he very likely added it to (044) thinking that it was omitted by mistake by a previous scribe. In fact, this was something commonly done by scribes.
3. Two of the ways we judge which reading is MOST likely when comparing documents to each other are called
"lectio brevior" - which means "shorter reading" and "lectio dificilior" - which means "difficult reading." We often accept the reading we find that is both more brief and more difficult because it is more likely that a scribe added something thinking incorrectly that something was omitted and we accept the more difficult reading because sribes usually repaired rather than made more difficult. So, we are trying to get into the head of the sribe and determine why he made the decision he made.
4. In our example, then, the reading WITHOUT "of Christ" is lectio brevior, lectio dificilior and is attested by the most ancient documents.

In summary, the most likely reading is not "of Christ" as this was most likely added for the reasons described above.

So, while in 1611 the KJV could not have known all of this, the NIV and NASB, et al, understood both the nature of scribal transmission and had discovered previously unknown documents which did not have the reading "of Christ."

Therefore, the NIV is correct in leaving it out and has omitted nothing nefariously.

I hope this has been helpful.

Blessings all,
Scott 8-)

 

[Solo]

The KJV is the flawed translation that falsely adds to the Word of God. The translators of the KJV were biased authors without the knowledge we have today, and their translation is not even close to the best that we have. There is not one single truth in the Bible that is found in the KJV that cannot be found in the NIV. KJV-onlyists rely on lies and deceptions to support their irrational belief that the KJV is in any way superior to other translations.

If you must make these kind of generalized attacks on the KJV, you really ought to show the flaws of the KJV, and how the translators were biased. What were they biased for or against? You give no direction with this comment. What manuscripts are available today that were not available during the KJV translation days? What knowledge do we have today that the KJV translators did not have? What is the best that we have today that the KJV translators did not have?

There are many, many omissions in the documents that were used to translate the NIV as the originator of this thread references, and many of these omissions detract from the whole truth of these areas of scriptures.

 

[Lewis]

And a worser translation than the NIV is the Living Bible, that Bible really gets out of whack. But I try to keep all sorts of translations. Besides the KJV, my favorite is the Amplified Bible, I love the Amplified and I use it constantly.

 

[PHIL121]

And a worser translation than the NIV is the Living Bible,.

The Living Bible never claims to be a perfect translation. It simply puts the Bible in modern vernacular.

Care to point out any specific point where it is 'worser'??

 

[Blazin Bones]

And yet the NLT is more literal than the NIV... :-?

There sure are a lot of threads bashing the NIV lately, try not to split topics. One or two threads on a topic is just fine. 8-)

 

[asb4God]

Still Wrong

There are many, many omissions in the documents that were used to translate the NIV as the originator of this thread references, and many of these omissions detract from the whole truth of these areas of scriptures.

A Challenge to Solo:

Please do the following:

1. Name one "omission" that you believe the NIV made in error and demonstrate why you believe it was in error.
2. Name one of these omissions where the doctrine is no longer present in Scripture.

I await your response,
Scott 8-)

 

[PHIL121]

I use my NIV because it has Study notes, as well as historic sidebars.

I still enjoy the Living Bible for 'just reading'.