Are Western Europeans the lost 10 Tribes?

[researcher]

I see the argument frequently. The 10 tribes went North and West after their Babylonian captivity, and ended up in what we know today as Europe. From there they spread to America, Canada, Australia, and South Africa(?). Today those countries have the most purchasing power (see link below), military power, innovations, freedom, and advanced societies.

So are the Anglo-Israeli proponents right? Were the 10 tribes the beginning of what we know today as Western Europe and their offshoot countries, and did they inherit the blessings that God said Israel would have in the latter times? Have at it (and happy Thanksgiving!) :D

First world countries: (See the map on the right)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World

Top 30 innovations of the last 30 years
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/arti ... cleid=2163

Purchasing power parity by country/bloc
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... 1rank.html

 

[follower of Christ]

Frankly, I just really dont think it matters at all. Too much time and effort into these 'lost tribes', in my opinion.
Scripture says:

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Romans 11:25 KJV)


Until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in -
And this blindness will continue till the Church of the Gentiles be fully completed - till the Gospel be preached through all the nations of the earth, and multitudes of heathens every where embrace the faith.
-Adam Clarke

Seemingly the gentiles have become a key component as to the timing of things.
Since what matters is simply repentance and thus salvation, Jew or Gentile, I really dont think it even matters if it doesnt relate directly to salvation. God can save anyone, Jew or Gentile.

What I do think, and hopefully this wont offend, is that a tad bit of racism and elitism is causing some to even worry about what their lineage is.
I prefer, quite honestly, to devote my time and energy to things that really matter.

*IF* it is of any actual consequence then we can rest assured that God knows who is who.

 

[shad]

Frankly, I just really dont think it matters at all. Too much time and effort into these 'lost tribes', in my opinion.

I agree on this. This is not the only one that we waste our time debating and arguing. We should invest our time on more worthy causes for God's kingdom.

.

 

[veteran]

The subject of the ten lost tribes, where God scattered them to, and His promises to Israel, is a matter for them, as the oracles of God, like Apostle Paul said, were given to them. And, God said He chose Israel above all other nations on earth to be a special and holy people unto Himself (Deut.7:6).

Careful we don't confuse elitism and unimportance with what God Himself has ordained, which all believing Gentiles on Christ are also to inherit becoming part of the "commonwealth of Israel" (Eph.2).

Happy Thanksgiving to all those in Christ Jesus too!

 

[follower of Christ]

The subject of the ten lost tribes, where God scattered them to, and His promises to Israel, is a matter for them, as the oracles of God, like Apostle Paul said, were given to them. And, God said He chose Israel above all other nations on earth to be a special and holy people unto Himself (Deut.7:6).

Careful we don't confuse elitism and unimportance with what God Himself has ordained, which all believing Gentiles on Christ are also to inherit becoming part of the "commonwealth of Israel" (Eph.2).

Happy Thanksgiving to all those in Christ Jesus too!

Definitely agree with the intent. I just dont know if I understand the obsession.
God knows those who are His, so what else matters in the end ?

 

[Vic C.]

I fail to understand why there is a topic here on this, when there is an ongoing discussion on this very topic in the End Times forum?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=42804

 

[researcher]

I fail to understand why there is a topic here on this, when there is an ongoing discussion on this very topic in the End Times forum?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=42804

Sorry, Vic. The other topic wasn't clearly titled, and I forgot it was there. I prefer something clearly labeled so people know what discussion it is so they can jump in. :D

 

[veteran]

Definitely agree with the intent. I just dont know if I understand the obsession.
God knows those who are His, so what else matters in the end ?

I believe what God's Word says about it. And I understand why God has set up that structure for this world. One of the reasons no doubt its teaching is coming to light today, is because of how others are misplacing their faith in this world as evidence for Christ's Kingdom, instead of what God's Word shows about all the conditions are for Christ's Kingdom. The literal re-establishing of the 12 tribes of Israel back to the lands of promise with Christ as KING is directly related to the gathering of the saints to Christ Jesus when He comes. This is why Apostle Paul used that term "commonwealth of Israel" in Ephesians 2, because it includes all Gentile believers that were at one time strangers apart from it, but through Christ Jesus have now become a part of it.

If God's Word is followed on the matter, it is impossible to separate the name Israel from Christ's Salvation and Kingdom, because that word means 'those who prevail with God's help'. It has always been a name pointer to Christ's Salvation, even in Old Testament times while many of even the people of Israel refused to believe. It is also why Apostle Paul taught what he did in Romans 9 that they are not all Israel, which are of Israel, but the children of the Promise are counted for the seed. That means by Faith on The Savior Jesus Christ, and not by birth. But what of those of Israel that did believe? That's the tree all believers are graffed into, for it's the original tree God first ordained for His Plan of Salvation through Christ. It is why Christ promised His 12 Apostles they would sit on thrones reigning over the 12 tribes of Israel, meaning the remnant of Israel like themselves that did believe, and believing Gentiles with them, forming the "commonwealth of Israel". This is what the idea of 'commonwealth' points to, the community of believers as a whole, of both Israelite and Gentile.

 

[researcher]

What I do think, and hopefully this wont offend, is that a tad bit of racism and elitism is causing some to even worry about what their lineage is.

Lol. That was funny.

Still, I am wondering the implications if the theory is true. If the theory is true, then it would seem, Satan would have his sights set on those countries, esp. this one, to try and bring them down. :yes

 

[follower of Christ]

What I do think, and hopefully this wont offend, is that a tad bit of racism and elitism is causing some to even worry about what their lineage is.

Lol. That was funny.

Still, I am wondering the implications if the theory is true. If the theory is true, then it would seem, Satan would have his sights set on those countries, esp. this one, to try and bring them down. :yes

I would agree that Satan is probably just ignorant enough to think if he goes after physical Israel that he somehow has some chance of defeating God. I mean, if he had a brain...ie wasnt blinded to the facts...he'd know he's already lost and give up.

Id think that satan does think he has a snowballs chance in hades of winning, so destroying Gods 'people' is probably on his 'to do' list.
If we're interested in it as far as trying to understand satans motivations I think the topic is pretty interesting. I just dont like the idea of some who seem to think that only these lost tribes are Gods children...kwim ?

 

[veteran]

And another thing, understanding about the "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah" from God's Word, especially in today's time, is important for understanding endtime Bible prophecy. And it's quite obvious that understanding is lacking with all the false prophets out there teaching that today is Christ's Kingdom already come on earth, with Christ having returned in the 1st century, and the resurrection being past.

 

[Joe67]

The two nations that the twelve tribes became is an object lesson of the two different ways of worshiping the Lord.

Juday/Jerusalem was an object lesson of the worship through organized, institutional worship that has structure and system.

The ten tribes called by the name of "Israel" was an object lesson of the independent, non structured worship of the Lord.

Both ways of worshiping the Lord were destroyed and their inhabitants removed to other places.

A remnant of Judah/Jerusalem returned under the Persian rule. The worship at Jerusalem was reactivated. Jesus was born through these people. He is the reality of the meaning and purpose of Judah/Jerusalem. Now he is gathering his body through faith and grace and his body is the reality of the meaning and purpose of the house of "Israel."

In Jesus and his body there is no human political process.

Joe

 

[(THE)]

What I do think, and hopefully this wont offend, is that a tad bit of racism and elitism is causing some to even worry about what their lineage is.

Lol. That was funny.

Still, I am wondering the implications if the theory is true. If the theory is true, then it would seem, Satan would have his sights set on those countries, esp. this one, to try and bring them down. :yes

I would agree that Satan is probably just ignorant enough to think if he goes after physical Israel that he somehow has some chance of defeating God. I mean, if he had a brain...ie wasnt blinded to the facts...he'd know he's already lost and give up.

Id think that satan does think he has a snowballs chance in hades of winning, so destroying Gods 'people' is probably on his 'to do' list.



If we're interested in it as far as trying to understand satans motivations I think the topic is pretty interesting. I just dont like the idea of some who seem to think that only these lost tribes are Gods children...kwim ?

satan is surely alot smarter then your making him out to be.....

I never heard anyone say the 10 lost tribes are Gods children only......

 

[Drew]

And another thing, understanding about the "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah" from God's Word, especially in today's time, is important for understanding endtime Bible prophecy.

Agreed. And part of that understanding involves recognition that neither the term "Israel" nor the term has a single, universal meaning. Sometimes the term "Israel" denotes the 10 tribes, sometimes it denotes all 12. Similarly, sometimes the term "Jew" denotes the "2 southern tribes", and sometimes it denotes all 12.

It may suit some poster's agendas that this ambiguity were not present. But it is.

And it's quite obvious that understanding is lacking with all the false prophets out there teaching that today is Christ's Kingdom already come on earth,...

What is obvious is that insisting on one universal meaning for each of these terms sustains that otherwise unBiblical view that Jesus is not already enthroned over the earth.

And lets be clear: There are many texts that support the reigning kingship of Jesus that do not depend on how the terms "Israel" or "Jew" or "Judah" are read.

 

[researcher]

I was going to re-title the topic to "Did the 10 tribes migrate to Western Europe" but apparently it's to late.

The topic was to see who believes they did and why they believe that they did.

I'm on the fence, although there are a few things in favor of the argument like the material wealth, global influence, and military power God has allowed or given to those nations.

So, to make it simpler, posters should answer the following:

1. Do you believe the 10 tribes moved North to Europe
2. Why is this what you believe (scripture backing, personal beliefs/observations etc)

 

[veteran]

And another thing, understanding about the "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah" from God's Word, especially in today's time, is important for understanding endtime Bible prophecy.

Agreed. And part of that understanding involves recognition that neither the term "Israel" nor the term has a single, universal meaning. Sometimes the term "Israel" denotes the 10 tribes, sometimes it denotes all 12. Similarly, sometimes the term "Jew" denotes the "2 southern tribes", and sometimes it denotes all 12.

It may suit some poster's agendas that this ambiguity were not present. But it is.

And it's quite obvious that understanding is lacking with all the false prophets out there teaching that today is Christ's Kingdom already come on earth,...

What is obvious is that insisting on one universal meaning for each of these terms sustains that otherwise unBiblical view that Jesus is not already enthroned over the earth.

And lets be clear: There are many texts that support the reigning kingship of Jesus that do not depend on how the terms "Israel" or "Jew" or "Judah" are read.

Per Bible history, the term Jew never applied to the ten tribes of Israel. The term came from the sole tribe of Judah, and applied only to those tribes under Judah at Jerusalem, and the people in Judea. Note what the Jewish historian Josephus said about the origin of the term Jew.

"You know, O Jews, that God hath kept our fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, in mind continually; and for the sake of their righteousness hath not left off the care of you. Indeed, he hath assisted me in gaining this authority of the king to raise up our wall, and finish what is wanting of the temple. (170) I desire you, therefore, who well know the will our neighboring nations bear to us, and that when once they are made sensible that we are in earnest about building, they will come upon us and contrive many ways of obstructing our works, (171) that you will, in the first place, put your trust in God, as in him that will assist us against their hatred, and to intermit building neither night nor day, but to use all diligence, and to hasten on the work, now we have this especial opportunity for it." (172) When he had said this, he gave order that the rulers should measure the wall, and part the work of it among the people, according to their villages and cities, as everyone's ability should require. And when he had added this promise, that he himself, with his servants, would assist them, he dissolved the assembly. (173) So the Jews prepared for the work: that is the name they are called by from the day that they came up from Babylon, which is taken from the tribe of Judah, which came first to these places, and thence both they and the country gained that appellation.["The Antiquities of The Jews, The Works of Josephus translated by William Whiston (1667-1752), (Hendrickson Publishers, Peabody, MA,1987), Book 11/ Chapter 5, p.297.]

That proves the term Jew is not "universal" when the correct history is looked into, and also reveals some would instead rather heed the many revisionist histories that men's traditions have devised to support their false doctrines.
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