Bible Study Are works important or not?

[Jim Parker]

One way to determine what a writer of scripture thought was important is to note how much space in his writings were devoted to the subject.
So, did Paul think what we do is important?
Do you?
Take a look. (3 posts)

A Few Works prescribed by Paul in Scripture 1​

Rom 2:7-10 (God) will render to each one according to his deeds: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Rom 6:12-13 … do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Rom 12:1-2 … present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Rom 12:6-8 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

Rom 12:9-13:1 [Let] love [be] without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.
[Be] kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.
Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.
If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.
Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but [rather] give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance [is] Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.
Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head."
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

Rom 13:5-8 Therefore [you] must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes [are due], customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:13-14 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to [fulfill its] lusts

Rom 14:1-3 Receive one who is weak in the faith, [but] not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats [only] vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.

Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in [our] brother's way.

Rom 14:15-16 Yet if your brother is grieved because of [your] food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;

Rom 14:19-21 Therefore let us pursue the things [which make] for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed [are] pure, but [it is] evil for the man who eats with offense. [It is] good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor [do anything] by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

Rom 14:22-23 Do you have faith? Have [it] to yourself before God. Happy [is] he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because [he does] not [eat] from faith; for whatever [is] not from faith is sin.

Rom 15:1-2 We then who are strong ought to bear with the scruples of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each of us please [his] neighbor for [his] good, leading to edification.

Rom 15:7 Therefore receive one another, just as Christ also received us, to the glory of God.

1 Cor 5:9-13 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet certainly [did] not [mean] with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. For what [have] I [to do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

1 Cor 6:18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

1 Cor 7:10-11 Now to the married I command, [yet] not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from [her] husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to [her] husband. And a husband is not to divorce [his] wife.

1Cor 7:20-24 Were you called [while] a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use [it]. For he who is called in the Lord [while] a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called [while] free is Christ's slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. Brethren, let each one remain with God in that [state] in which he was called.

1 Cor 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

1 Cor 10:7-10 And do not become idolaters as [were] some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.

1 Cor 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Cor 10:27-28 If any of those who do not believe invites you [to dinner], and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "the earth [is] the LORD's, and all its fullness."

1 Cor 10:31-33 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, just as I also please all [men] in all [things], not seeking my own profit, but the [profit] of many, that they may be saved.

1 Cor 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also [imitate] Christ.

1 Cor 11:27-28 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks [this] cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

1 Cor 11:33-34 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.

 

[th1b.taylor]

One way to determine what a writer of scripture thought was important is to note how much space in his writings were devoted to the subject.
So, did Paul think what we do is important?
Do you?
Take a look. (3 posts)

A Few Works prescribed by Paul in Scripture 1​

Rom 2:7-10 (God) will render to each one according to his deeds: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Rom 6:12-13 … do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Rom 12:1-2 … present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Rom 12:6-8 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

Rom 12:9-13:1 [Let] love [be] without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.
[Be] kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.
Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.
If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.
Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but [rather] give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance [is] Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.
Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head."
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

Rom 13:5-8 Therefore [you] must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes [are due], customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:13-14 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to [fulfill its] lusts

Rom 14:1-3 Receive one who is weak in the faith, [but] not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats [only] vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.

Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in [our] brother's way.

Rom 14:15-16 Yet if your brother is grieved because of [your] food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;

Rom 14:19-21 Therefore let us pursue the things [which make] for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed [are] pure, but [it is] evil for the man who eats with offense. [It is] good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor [do anything] by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

Rom 14:22-23 Do you have faith? Have [it] to yourself before God. Happy [is] he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because [he does] not [eat] from faith; for whatever [is] not from faith is sin.

Rom 15:1-2 We then who are strong ought to bear with the scruples of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each of us please [his] neighbor for [his] good, leading to edification.

Rom 15:7 Therefore receive one another, just as Christ also received us, to the glory of God.

1 Cor 5:9-13 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet certainly [did] not [mean] with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. For what [have] I [to do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

1 Cor 6:18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

1 Cor 7:10-11 Now to the married I command, [yet] not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from [her] husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to [her] husband. And a husband is not to divorce [his] wife.

1Cor 7:20-24 Were you called [while] a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use [it]. For he who is called in the Lord [while] a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called [while] free is Christ's slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. Brethren, let each one remain with God in that [state] in which he was called.

1 Cor 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

1 Cor 10:7-10 And do not become idolaters as [were] some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.

1 Cor 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Cor 10:27-28 If any of those who do not believe invites you [to dinner], and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "the earth [is] the LORD's, and all its fullness."

1 Cor 10:31-33 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, just as I also please all [men] in all [things], not seeking my own profit, but the [profit] of many, that they may be saved.

1 Cor 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also [imitate] Christ.

1 Cor 11:27-28 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks [this] cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

1 Cor 11:33-34 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.

The issue is that the sacrifice, I believe I remember from Romans 12:1&2, but those Living Sacrifices keep getting up and walking away from the Alter. and that is not said to be funny! If one does not work, every minute of every day you will never move closer to Jesus.

 

[Chopper]

Hello Jim. Yours is a most interesting thread. All those Words are from the Mighty "EL" (singular) He is the "First Great Cause of all". I find all the Scripture's that you posted very important because they come from the Heart of EL and are some of the Commands that EL refers too when He says....

1 John 5:1 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

You asked,

So, did Paul think what we do is important? Do you?

.... Yes! I believe the Apostle Paul thought what we do is important.

I love to study what pleases Elohim (plural of EL). Occurs about 2500 times. First in Genesis 1:1...."In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth". As you can see, I love the Hebrew names for God. In my prayers, I use these names to honor Them because of what they mean. Those Hebrew names display God's Nature to do something. If I know what Jesus' Nature to do something, then I can call upon Him to accomplish it. The following verses come to my mind....

Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

I hope, in all of my written thoughts, I answered your two questions.

I Love You Brother Jim,
Chopper

 

[Jim Parker]

If one does not work, every minute of every day you will never move closer to Jesus.

Good point.

 

[Jim Parker]

Hello Jim. Yours is a most interesting thread. All those Words are from the Mighty "EL" (singular) He is the "First Great Cause of all". I find all the Scripture's that you posted very important because they come from the Heart of EL and are some of the Commands that EL refers too when He says....

1 John 5:1 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

You asked,
.... Yes! I believe the Apostle Paul thought what we do is important.

I love to study what pleases Elohim (plural of EL). Occurs about 2500 times. First in Genesis 1:1...."In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth". As you can see, I love the Hebrew names for God. In my prayers, I use these names to honor Them because of what they mean. Those Hebrew names display God's Nature to do something. If I know what Jesus' Nature to do something, then I can call upon Him to accomplish it. The following verses come to my mind....

Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

I hope, in all of my written thoughts, I answered your two questions.

I Love You Brother Jim,
Chopper

Thanks for your encouragement, brother.

 

[Papa Zoom]

The most important work one can do (it's the only starting place) is to love one another. Loving others more than self is the standard. You get that right, you'll do just fine.

 

[Edward]

I think where some get confused is they inadvertently equate works with a works salvation. That may be wrong (a works salvation), but it is not the point. It's not done for salvation, but because of salvation. These works, are done because it is God's will to see them done. It is an act of faith to do a work. In faith I will do someone a good deed today. Because God said to do it, so I will do it. I will step out in faith for a work because then it would allow the love and grace of God to flow through us to another...to bless them. As we would want ourselves to be blessed...to the same extent.

You can't eat lunch on a buck anymore. Nowadays it takes 10 or 20.

 

[Jim Parker]

The most important work one can do (it's the only starting place) is to love one another. Loving others more than self is the standard. You get that right, you'll do just fine.

BINGO!

 

[Cygnus]

I think where some get confused is they inadvertently equate works with a works salvation. That may be wrong (a works salvation), but it is not the point. It's not done for salvation, but because of salvation. These works, are done because it is God's will to see them done. It is an act of faith to do a work. In faith I will do someone a good deed today. Because God said to do it, so I will do it. I will step out in faith for a work because then it would allow the love and grace of God to flow through us to another...to bless them. As we would want ourselves to be blessed...to the same extent.

You can't eat lunch on a buck anymore. Nowadays it takes 10 or 20.

Good points.
I can base works upon "motivation". What motivtes a man to do good works? Some work to get saved while some work because they are saved. Recently we learned in the OSNAS threads some even work to stay saved.
Many are motivated to do good deeds for personal reasons...to get saved....while some are motivated to do good deeds for the glory of God.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Works matter. But not for salvation. That is a work of God. Works matter because we are called unto good works. Ephesians 2:10

And

Works matter NOT for salvation but BECAUSE of salvation.

 

[Edward]

Works matter. But not for salvation. That is a work of God. Works matter because we are called unto good works. Ephesians 2:10

And

Works matter NOT for salvation but BECAUSE of salvation.

Agreed, Brother! Now let's take it one step further...When we do good works here on earth, our spirit (that is within us, and seated in heavenly places also) begins to glow even brighter than before. This is probably what the scripture means when it says for us to let our light so shine before men.

Proverbs 20:24 backs this up.
27 The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

 

[Jim Parker]

Works matter. But not for salvation.

SO James is wrong?

 

[Free]

Works matter for sanctification, for our holiness, "without which no one will see the Lord" (Heb. 12:14, ESV).

 

[Jim Parker]

Works matter for sanctification, for our holiness, "without which no one will see the Lord" (Heb. 12:14, ESV).

My father from time to time would tell me to do something.
I knew better than to ignore his instructions.
God the Father, in His word, has given us instructions.
Many people go to great lengths to justify why they can ignore what God told them to do.
Neither my mom nor dad would put up with any of that nonsense yet many, many, people seem to think that God will.

God didn't "write" that stuff for us because He was getting paid by the word.
God "wrote" exactly what He wants us to do because He actually want's us to do those exact things.

Mat 21:28-31a
“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go, work today in my vineyard.’
“He answered and said, ‘I will not,’ but afterward he regretted it and went.
“Then he came to the second and said likewise. And he answered and said, ‘I go, sir,’ but he did not go.
“Which of the two did the will of his father?”

Which son are you?

 

[Papa Zoom]

SO James is wrong?

You'll have to be more specific. In the meantime, James can't be wrong. But we can misunderstand. I'm not suggesting that's the case here as I don't know the specifics you're pointing toward.

 

[Jim Parker]

You'll have to be more specific. In the meantime, James can't be wrong. But we can misunderstand. I'm not suggesting that's the case here as I don't know the specifics you're pointing toward.

James said that works DO matter for salvation.
And, as you have testified, "James can't be wrong."
James 2:14-24
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Jesus said essentially the same thing when He asked at Luke 6:46: "But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?"

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

So the NT scriptures are very clear that those who claim to believe in Jesus are to do the things that He commands. And doing the things that scripture teaches us to do is, in fact, a matter of eternal life or second death.

In scripture, the word "believe" does not refer only to an intellectual acceptance of a premise like 2+2=4 or the gravity of the earth causes a falling object to accelerate at a rate of 32 feet per second per second. To believe in Jesus is to believe that He is God and that He will judge mankind according to what they did or did not do. We know that's how he will judge mankind because that is exactly what He said he would do.

Jesus did not send the apostles out to make fans; He sent them to make disciples.
Fans show up on Sundays, sing songs, listen to sermons, donate money and go home.
Disciples turn the world upside down.

 

[Papa Zoom]

James said that works DO matter for salvation.
And, as you have testified, "James can't be wrong."
James 2:14-24
What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.

You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Jesus said essentially the same thing when He asked at Luke 6:46: "But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?"

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

So the NT scriptures are very clear that those who claim to believe in Jesus are to do the things that He commands. And doing the things that scripture teaches us to do is, in fact, a matter of eternal life or second death.

In scripture, the word "believe" does not refer only to an intellectual acceptance of a premise like 2+2=4 or the gravity of the earth causes a falling object to accelerate at a rate of 32 feet per second per second. To believe in Jesus is to believe that He is God and that He will judge mankind according to what they did or did not do. We know that's how he will judge mankind because that is exactly what He said he would do.

Jesus did not send the apostles out to make fans; He sent them to make disciples.
Fans show up on Sundays, sing songs, listen to sermons, donate money and go home.
Disciples turn the world upside down.

Yes, but there's more to the Bible than James.

• "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." (Rom. 4:5).

And

• "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

It's context. We are saved by grace and not of works. We can't be saved not of works and of works at the same time. It's one or the other. So what's James about?

1 John 2:4
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

If you claim to follow Jesus, and you don't follow Him, you aren't a follower. Like you said, you're a fan. Jesus doesn't want fans. He wasn't disciples. Disciples follow the Master and a sign that one is a true follower of Jesus is they do what He has said to do.

If you don't love others, if you don't serve others, if you don't put others before yourself, you're not following Jesus. Loving, serving, and putting others first was/is Jesus' MO. It's what He did every day. He did the Father's will and not His own. Every day!

So that's the standard for all of us. It doesn't save us. But if works are absent from a Christian's life, something is wrong. Something is missing. Jesus says that makes us a liar. So we'll have to go with that.

 

[Jim Parker]

Yes, but there's more to the Bible than James.

That is not a reason to ignore James.

So that's the standard for all of us. It doesn't save us. But if works are absent from a Christian's life, something is wrong. Something is missing. Jesus says that makes us a liar. So we'll have to go with that.

And if we are liars then we will go to hell.
So the works ARE important for our salvation.

 

[Papa Zoom]

That is not a reason to ignore James.

And if we are liars then we will go to hell.
So the works ARE important for our salvation.

Not a fair reply. I never suggested to ignore James. I thought my post demonstrated agreement with him. And works are important to the life of a believer in Jesus. Not for salvation. Salvation happens apart from works. If someone is saved, they need to find out what God has for them. For me, it's service to kids. Even in my retirement, I see doors opening for service (this week I'm leading in songs at the local VBS (not my church but I help every year)) and there are a few more things I'm praying about for God's direction.

I work FROM salvation and not FOR it.

 

[Jim Parker]

Not a fair reply. I never suggested to ignore James. I thought my post demonstrated agreement with him.

Then you agree that faith without works will not save anyone.

And works are important to the life of a believer in Jesus. Not for salvation.

How do you reconcile the idea that works are not important for salvation with the fact that all mankind will be judged by their works as to whether their eternal existence in in the Kingdom of God or the lake of fire?

I work FROM salvation and not FOR it.

Ah! You assume that you have made made it.
Paul was not as confident as you until the end of his life when he was in prison waiting to be martyred for the faith.
Phl 3:8-15
Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Jesus told us that we are the light of the world and so, we are to let our light so shine that people see our good works and praise God. (Mat 5:14)

I'm doing some of that and working on doing more and trying to exhort others to do the same.

that's all.

I'm leading in songs at the local VBS (not my church but I help every year)) and there are a few more things I'm praying about for God's direction.

That's good.
Here's some direction for all of us that God had Matthew write down: give water to the thirsty, feed the hungry; clothe the naked, shelter the stranger, visit the sick and imprisoned. (Mat 25:35-36) To give water, food, clothes and shelter there are many organizations which do that and we can support them financially. Visitation takes personal action. You have to apply for clearance and go through their training to go into prisons.

There is so much emphasis on "works-free" salvation that I decided to do this thread. The world really needs to see and experience what a Christ-like person is. People's lives need to be better because they encountered Christians. We should be turning the world upside down (Act 17:6) instead of arguing about how we don't have to do anything to be saved.