Arminianism and Calvinism

[GodsGrace]

Interestingly, Ive been told by a poster that I'm an Arminian.
As if that should be something to be ashamed of.
I'd like to say that, yes, I do agree with Arminianism.

I'd also like to say that no one that I know of who is a Calvinist is willing to admit this.
I don't really understand this.

The idea here is to post exactly what each side believes.
It will be VERY limited. I've said many times that we cannot learn about religion on the internet. It takes years of study to understand Christianity. It is not learned from reading about it on Wikipedia.

However, this is a starting point.
I'm not sure I even agree with everything Arminians state as their doctrine. I'll only go through the 5 points, which respond to the 5 points of Calvinism, or the TULIP.

I've placed this in Theology because it is, in fact, a study of God.
His character, His ideas, His dealings with humanity -- His creation and the love He might or might not have for us. His sovereignty, His election of a nation and, perhaps, even persons.
IOW, God, and who He is...

 

[GodsGrace]

ARMINIANISM:
Part I of II

Arminianism
Arminianism is a school of theology based on the teachings of Dutch theologian Jacob Arminius, for whom it is named. It is perhaps most prominent in the Methodist movement and found in various other evangelical circles today. It stands in contrast to Calvinism, with which it has a long history of debate. Arminians as well as Calvinists appeal to various Scriptures and the early church fathers to support their respective views, however the differences remain — particularly as related to the sovereignty of God in salvation and the ideas of election and predestination.

Arminian theology
The Arminian party suggested five anti-Calvinist corrections, articulated in the Five articles of Remonstrance of 1610, which gave rise to the historic controversy and are summarized as follows:


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Universal prevenient grace

This grace purportedly restores man's free will which was impaired by the effects of original sin and enables him to choose or refuse the salvation offered by God in Jesus Christ. Some would say that freedom of will is man's natural state, not a spiritual gift — and thus free will was not lost in the Fall, but cannot be exercised toward good apart from the grace of God. In either case, God's universal prevenient grace works upon all alike to influence them for good, but only those who freely choose to cooperate with grace through faith and repentance are given new spiritual power to make effectual the good they otherwise impotently intend. As John Wesley stated more forcefully, humans were in fact totally corrupted by original sin, but God's prevenient grace allowed free will to operate. Universal prevenient grace is the "hair's breadth" that separates Wesley from the Calvinist view of total depravity.

See main articles: Universal prevenient grace, John 12:32

Conditional election

This point holds that man is the final arbiter of his election, and that God elects him on the basis of foreseen faith which is exercised by libertarian free will, thus making man ultimately decisive.

God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ, out of fallen and sinful mankind, those foreknown by Him who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in Christ; but God leaves in sin those foreseen, who are incorrigible and unbelieving. This is in contrast to the Calvinist doctrine of unconditional election.

See main articles: Election and Foreknowledge of God

Unlimited (or universal) atonement

Christ's death was suffered on behalf of all men and benefits all men alike. God then elects for salvation those whom he foresees will believe in Christ of their own free will. This is in contrast to the Calvinist doctrine of Limited atonement.

Arminians believe that whatever the atonement accomplished, it did so universally for all alike, not just the elect. This point rejects that the atonement has any component which is decisive or effectual in gathering of the elect. Rather, the atonement is seen as a universally effective propitiation and the basis for a universal offer of salvation. The key verse used for this position is 1 John 2:2.

See main articles: Universal atonement and Atonement of Christ

con'd

 

[GodsGrace]

ARMINIANISM:
Part I of II

Arminianism

Resistible grace

This point holds that God never overcomes the resistance of man to His saving grace. While both Calvinists and Arminians hold that men often resist God's grace, Arminianism teaches that this resistance is rarely conquered by God because this would be a violation of man's libertarian free will. The grace of God works for good in all men, and brings about newness of life through faith. But saving grace can be resisted, even by the regenerate. This is in contrast to the Calvinist doctrine of Irresistible grace.

See main article: Irresistible grace

Uncertainty of perseverance

Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit, sufficient to enable them to persevere in the faith. However, it may be possible for a believer to fall from grace. This is in contrast to the Calvinist's Perseverance of the saints.

See main articles: Perseverance of the saints and Assurance of salvation Not all Arminians have historically embraced this fifth point as stated. Some have embraced a form of eternal security which does not require perseverance in the faith and an attitude of repentance for final salvation. The majority of Arminians, regardless of their position on this point, still affirm that man retains libertarian free will throughout the entirety of earthly life.


The following are also distinctive doctrines and emphases of Arminianism:


Libertarian free will

A key tenet of Arminianism is libertarian free will. This means that our choices are free from the determination or constraints of human nature and free from any predetermination by God. All "free will theists" hold that libertarian freedom is essential for moral responsibility, for if our choice is determined or caused by anything, including our own desires, they reason, it cannot properly be called a free choice.

See main article: Libertarian free will

Equal, impartial, and undifferentiated love

Arminianism emphasizes God's equal, impartial, and undifferentiated love for all individuals and denies that God has any sort of electing, particular love that secures one's redemption from the foundation of the world. It infers from this universal love that God would never predestine anyone to hell or hate anyone without reference to their wickedness.

See main passages and articles: John 3:16, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, Romans 9:13, Love of God

The universal call of salvation

Arminians hold that God calls all people to Himself through Christ, whether or not this call is effectual depends upon the individuals libertarian free will.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


History
Arminianism, as mentioned above, is based on the theology of Dutch theologian Jacob Arminius (1560-1609). His opposition to some of the teachings of the Belgic Confession was formalized into five articles of Remonstrance published by his followers in 1610, on the heels of his death. This Remonstrance was the basis for formal debates in the Reformed churches and resulted in the national Synod of Dort (1618-1619) where Arminianism was condemned by the State church. Arminian theology later received official toleration by the State and has since continued in various forms within Protestantism.

John Wesley later adopted Arminianism and it has become the theological position of Methodism and the Wesleyan tradition. It was propagated in America through the revivalism of the Second Great Awakening and the burgeoning Methodist movement. It is also found today in other denominations such as the Nazarene, the Pentecostal, the Assemblies of God, the Churches of Christ, the Seventh-day Adventist and many Baptist groups. Elements of Arminianism (or its older sister Semi-Pelagianism) may also be found in Roman Catholicism.

"Moderate Arminianism" or "moderate Calvinism"
In Norman Geisler's Chosen But Free, Geisler describes popular Arminianism as "moderate Calvinism" (also called "moderate Arminianism"), because it holds to the perseverance of the saints. This is a confusing and misleading label, however, as Arminianism has not historically been settled against this point. Arminians have held a variety of positions on the certainty/uncertainty of perseverance, and being "Arminian" doesn't necessarily imply that one holds to the uncertainty of perseverance.

Those who hold to Geisler's categorization sometimes also consider belief in the five points of Calvinism to be hyper-Calvinistic. ^[1]^

end

 

[GodsGrace]

WHY I AGREE WITH ARMINIANISM:

1. Prevenient Grace:
Man fell from grace with God, but he is not totally depraved as Calvinism states.
How else could one explain why unsaved persons do good deeds? We are salvageable.
Man did not lose free will in the fall.
Did Adam not choose to eat the fruit? And this was BEFORE he even fell.
Did Jesus not cry for Jerusalem because, of the people's own free will, they did not respond to Jesus.
Luke 13:34

2. Conditional Election:
God elected us to be conformed to the image of His Son.
He chose us (elected = chose) us based on His foreknowledge that we would respond to the gospel message. He DID NOT pick and choose based on nothing, which is what Calvinism teaches. God loves all His creation and wishes all mankind to be saved, but all mankind does exercise free will and not all will choose God.
Ephesians 1:4
Romans 8:29
1 Timothy 2:4
2 Peter 3:9


3. Unlimited Atonement:
Jesus died for the whole world...for everyone who would willingly choose Him.
Calvinists believe in a limited atonement. IOW, Jesus died ONLY for those lucky persons that God decided (based on nothing) that they would be saved.
All that needs to be posted is
John 3:16
WHOSEVER believes in Jesus WILL BE SAVED.

4. Resistible Grace:
God sheds His grace on all His creation. How else could anyone be saved?
However, if a person does not wish to be saved, by their own free will, God will not force them into a relationship with Him that they do not desire.
Calvinists believe that man has no free will and that God forces man into a relationship with Him. How is this true love? Love must be freely given and freely received.

5. Uncertainty of Perseverance:
God gives us the Holy Spirit go enable us to follow Him and help us in our daily lives.
Jesus promised He would never leave us abandoned. However, since we have free will and God desires us to freely love him, we can decide to leave Him, and our salvation, at any time. Althought I find this difficult to understand, some do decide to forsake their faith.
The Parable of the Sower and the Prodigal Son show this to be true.
Mathew 13:21
Luke 15:24

I won't comment on the other 2 points and will stay with the original 5...I do want to say that God's love for man in not preferential. God loves ALL OF US. He loves every man on earth, before, now, and in the future. Calvinism teaches about a God who picks and chooses whom He will save. Is this a God of love??
James 2:1
Romans 2:11
Acts 10:34

 

[Cygnus]

Thanks for the history lesson.

My chief problem with the Arminian views on free will is this...

Your choice of accepting or rejecting Christ is based upon your individual path in life coupled with happenstance.
If you get dealt a good hand you might accept Christ. If you get dealt a bad hand you may tend to reject Christ.
In other words your choice to accept or reject Christ really isn't your own but the bias life gave you.

For example there are some people who hate certain groups of people. The reason for their hate might be that's what they were taught. Their bias may be that they will always hate that particular group of people. In a sense they will never choose that particular group of people as "friends". Their bias has stripped them of the possibility for friendship.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks for the history lesson.

My chief problem with the Arminian views on free will is this...

Your choice of accepting or rejecting Christ is based upon your individual path in life coupled with happenstance.
If you get dealt a good hand you might accept Christ. If you get dealt a bad hand you may tend to reject Christ.
In other words your choice to accept or reject Christ really isn't your own but the bias life gave you.

For example there are some people who hate certain groups of people. The reason for their hate might be that's what they were taught. Their bias may be that they will always hate that particular group of people. In a sense they will never choose that particular group of people as "friends". Their bias has stripped them of the possibility for friendship.

Let me post Calvinism Cygnus and then we'll get back to this.
I hope to have a serious conversation with no bad spirit since God is the Father of us all.

 

[Cygnus]

Calvinists believe in a limited atonement. IOW, Jesus died ONLY for those lucky persons that God decided (based on nothing) that

I find this quote of yours to be very disingenuous. Very improper. There is no "lucky" person. You act as if God rolled the dice to choose who He would present with justice or who He would present with mercy and grace. It is a shameful representation of the view of Unlimited Atonement.

 

[Cygnus]

Let me post Calvinism Cygnus and then we'll get back to this.
I hope to have a serious conversation with no bad spirit since God is the Father of us all.

You've already misrepresented Calvinism.....

 

[GodsGrace]

And now for Calvinism. I've made an effort to include the same information as for Arminianism. I'm sorry if it's shorter, I didn't write it. Anyone is free to add to the below information for the Calvinist view.

I will not state why I do NOT agree with Calvinism since it is obvious.
I look forward to a civil conversation.



CALVINISM

Scripture
The principle of Calvin's system can be expressed by the term Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone). This principle of the Reformation demonstrates the conviction that the Bible is the Word of God and therefore the final authority in belief and practice. A common mistake is made when Sola Scriptura is understood as the Bible "alone." Calvin and the Reformers, believed strongly in church tradition, e.g. Calvin consistently and often cites the early church fathers. However, Scripture had the final authority and tradition was given a subordinate role. The authority of Scripture was not through rational argumentation or proofs, but through the witness of the Holy Spirit. [1]

See main page: Scripture alone, Authority of the Bible

God
Calvinism affirms and confesses the historic doctrine of the Trinity: God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God is perfect in all his attributes, and is self-sufficient. Therefore, God is not subject to time or other beings, nor is he reducible to matter or spatial categories available to human reasoning or examination.[2] God is also mysterious, or hidden, except as he chooses to reveal himself to men, which He has done in the Scriptures.

Salvation (Five Points of Calvinism)
The Calvinist doctrine of salvation is summarized in what is commonly called the Five Points of Calvinism, or the Doctrines of Grace, known by the acronym TULIP. These five points are a summary of the Canons of Dort which in turn was the judgment of the Synod of Dort (1618–1619) against related Arminian teaching. These five points are not intended to be a comprehensive summary of Calvinism or Reformed doctrine, but an exposition of the sovereignty of God in salvation -- arranged to address the particular points in dispute raised by the Arminians of that day.

Note: The summary wording below is adapted from the Center for Reformed Theology and Apologetics

Total depravity

Calvinism teaches that humanity is totally depraved. Due to the Fall, the original relationship that Adam and Eve enjoyed with God was severed by sin. This affected the entire human race, corrupting the heart, mind, and will of every person born. Thus, people's natural actions and affections, whether viewed by man as bad or good, are never pleasing to God. The Calvinist understanding of total depravity does not mean that people are as evil as they possibly could be. People still make good choices (from a human perspective), but no matter how good they may be, they never gain favor with God. While total depravity is commonly associated with John Calvin, this theological viewpoint is based on the theology of Augustine (b. 354).

• See main page: Total depravity
• Contrast with Universal prevenient grace

Unconditional election

Unconditional election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon foreseen faith (especially a mere decisional faith). God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15, 21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4–8).

• See main page: Unconditional election
• See also Election, Predestination, and Foreknowledge of God

Limited atonement

Limited atonement (also known as "definite atonement") is a doctrine offered in answer to the question, "for whose sins did Christ atone?" The Bible teaches that Christ died for those whom God gave him to save (John 17:9). Christ died, indeed, for many people, but not all (Matthew 26:28). Specifically, Christ died for the invisible Church -- the sum total of all those who would ever rightly bear the name "Christian" (Ephesians 5:25).

See main page: Definite atonement See also Atonement of Christ and Penal substitutionary atonement

Irresistible grace

The result of God's irresistible grace is the certain response by the elect to the inward call of the Holy Spirit, when the outward call is given by the evangelist or minister of the Word of God. Christ, himself, teaches that all whom God has elected will come to a knowledge of him (John 6:37). Men come to Christ in salvation when the Father calls them (John 6:44), and the very Spirit of God leads God's beloved to repentance (Romans 8:14). What a comfort it is to know that the gospel of Christ will penetrate our hard, sinful hearts and wondrously save us through the gracious inward call of the Holy Spirit (1 Peter 5:10)!

• See main page: Irresistible grace
• See also Faith, Repentance, and Regeneration

Perseverance of the saints

Those called and justified will certainly be glorified (Romans 8:28–39). The work of sanctification which God has brought about in his elect will continue until it reaches its fulfillment in eternal life (Phil. 1:6). Christ assures the elect that he will not lose them and that they will be glorified at the "last day" (John 6:39). The Calvinist stands upon the Word of God and trusts in Christ's promise that he will perfectly fulfill the will of the Father in saving all the elect.

• See main page: Perseverance of the saints
• See also Lordship salvation and Assurance of salvation

source. https://www.theopedia.com/calvinism

 

[Cygnus]

He DID NOT pick and choose based on nothing,

Another misrepresentation.

How do you expect to have an honest debate when you insert ignorant bias into the beliefs of Calvinist?

 

[Cygnus]

Calvinists believe that man has no free will and that God forces man into a relationship with Him.

Once again...not true. God doesn't "force" you into a relationship. You misrepresent Calvinism.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Another misrepresentation.

How do you expect to have an honest debate when you insert ignorant bias into the beliefs of Calvinist?

Since this is the Theology forum do you have scripture to support your statement? BTW, inflamatory rhetoric is very much frowned upon here.....just say'n......

 

[GodsGrace]

Thanks for the history lesson.

My chief problem with the Arminian views on free will is this...

Your choice of accepting or rejecting Christ is based upon your individual path in life coupled with happenstance.
If you get dealt a good hand you might accept Christ. If you get dealt a bad hand you may tend to reject Christ.
In other words your choice to accept or reject Christ really isn't your own but the bias life gave you.

For example there are some people who hate certain groups of people. The reason for their hate might be that's what they were taught. Their bias may be that they will always hate that particular group of people. In a sense they will never choose that particular group of people as "friends". Their bias has stripped them of the possibility for friendship.

You always say this and I understand what you mean.

Let's accept that you're 100% correct.
I was lucky and heard the gospel message and I accepted it, but some bias did not allow someone else to accept it.

OK.

Isn't this better than thinking that GOD didn't accept me to be saved and He destined me to hell, but He CHOSE YOU to be saved, based on nothing at all?

 

[GodsGrace]

I find this quote of yours to be very disingenuous. Very improper. There is no "lucky" person. You act as if God rolled the dice to choose who He would present with justice or who He would present with mercy and grace. It is a shameful representation of the view of Unlimited Atonement.

I used the same site, Theopedia, for both Arminianism and Calvinism.
From my understanding, God DID role the dice for the Calvinist view.
If this is incorrect, you can correct me and give the proper understanding of
Limited Atonement. Which means, of course, that Jesus died only for the elect and not for everyone.

Those chosen for heaven are indeed lucky !

 

[GodsGrace]

Another misrepresentation.

How do you expect to have an honest debate when you insert ignorant bias into the beliefs of Calvinist?

OK. No bickering please.
I'm trying to be the most honest that I can with the information I have.
Instead of complaining, just please state what needs to be corrected.
Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

Once again...not true. God doesn't "force" you into a relationship. You misrepresent Calvinism.

How did I misrepresent Calvinism?
Explain please.

 

[Cygnus]

You always say this and I understand what you mean.

Let's accept that you're 100% correct.
I was lucky and heard the gospel message and I accepted it, but some bias did not allow someone else to accept it.

OK.

Isn't this better than thinking that GOD didn't accept me to be saved and He destined me to hell, but He CHOSE YOU to be saved, based on nothing at all?

Why do you keep saying God chooses based upon nothing at all?

First of all EVERY person deserves the judgement of eternal separation. Call it hell if you like.
For reasons known to God, He reaches into those destined for judgement and gives mercy and grace to some.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why do you keep saying God chooses based upon nothing at all?

First of all EVERY person deserves the judgement of eternal separation. Call it hell if you like.
For reasons known to God, He reaches into those destined for judgement and gives mercy and grace to some.

Upon what is God's choice made?

 

[Cygnus]

OK. No bickering please.
I'm trying to be the most honest that I can with the information I have.
Instead of complaining, just please state what needs to be corrected.
Thanks.

I was simply pointing out your..."WHY I AGREE WITH ARMINIANISM:" post was based upon a false assumption of Calvinism.
For example you said "He DID NOT pick and choose based on nothing, which is what Calvinism teaches."

Calvinism doesn't teach that. Your disagreement with Calvinism is built on a false pretense.

Later on you presented the Calvinist view:
Unconditional election is the doctrine which states that God chose those whom he was pleased to bring to a knowledge of himself, not based upon any merit shown by the object of his grace and not based upon foreseen faith (especially a mere decisional faith). God has elected, based solely upon the counsel of his own will, some for glory and others for damnation (Romans 9:15, 21). He has done this act before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4–8).

You misrepresented their view in your "WHY I AGREE WITH ARMINIANISM:" section.

 

[Cygnus]

Upon what is God's choice made?

I believe it's different for everyone. Romans 9:11 tells us "in order that God’s purpose in election might stand". What is that purpose? Who knows.

Romans 9:16 give us a reason for Pharaoh's purpose not to be saved.
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”g 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.