Atheism and Anti-Theism

[Sanitarium]

It seems to me that many people seem to believe that Atheism is:
1. A religion
2. A belief system
3. Opposed to Theism.

When in actual fact, Atheism is just a lack of belief in any supernatural being/entity (usually due to lack of evidence). Atheism has no holy book, no dogma, no rituals so I do not really understand where the big mischaracterisation comes from.

What I think you actually confuse, are Atheism and Anti-Theism. Anti-Theism is a belief that all forms of Theism (that you are aware of) are incorrect. An Atheist can be an Anti-Theist but they don't have to be (because again, Atheism does not have any required 'practices' or 'beliefs').

Think of it this way: Hindus are A-Christ - they are not 'evil' because of this, they just don't believe the religion of Christianity (because they are hindu!) , but those who are vocally against Christ are Anti-Christ (that sound familiar?). The first has a lack of belief (regardless of whatever else they believe in) and the second has a belief that is opposed to Christianity.

I think it is incorrect to label Atheism with the brush of Anti-Theism, but I think this is largely due to a misunderstanding. If I tell you I am an Atheist, this only tells you what I do not believe - it does not tell you what I do believe.

On a side note, there is no such thing as "militant Atheism" - these people are who happen to be Atheists are also Anti-Theists. It would be more correct to label them as "militant Anti-Theists".


I hope everyone understand what I am getting at (but please correct me if it is unclear).

Thanks!

-Sani (friendly neighbourhood Atheist).

 

[Jon-Marc]

Atheism is a belief in one's self, and is in that respect a "religion"; "I am my own god, and I run my life my way and determine my own destiny."

 

[Sanitarium]

Atheism is a belief in one's self, and is in that respect a "religion"; "I am my own god, and I run my life my way and determine my own destiny."

You're thinking of Humanism not Atheism.

 

[turnorburn]

I couldn't have said it better Jon-Marc, why not attend a forum that caters to your needs? I could write a list of infamous atheists that right now this minute are clamoring for a way to escape hell eternal, begging for a drop of water to put on their tongues while screaming in the flames. Where are the voices that cry out to repent and beg Gods forgiveness before its too late..

Albert Einstein

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."

"I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."

"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."

-Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

Carl Sagan

"My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic."

-Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author.

Benjamin Franklin

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."

"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."

-Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor.

You that mock God are in for an unpleasant surprise we don't have to prove a thing Jesus Christ crucified placed in the tomb then rose from the dead on the third day, now he sits at the right hand of God the Father.

turnorburn

If you think this is flaming you haven't seen anything yet.

 

[Sanitarium]

I couldn't have said it better Jon-Marc, why not attend a forum that caters to your needs?

Are you saying you wish me to leave?

My point for posting this thread is give further assistance and clarification to you. If you wish to convert Atheists, then you first must actually understand what Atheism is - if you continually insist that Atheism is a belief and not a lack of one, you will not convince them, as they will see that you do not grasp even what Atheism is (my opinion).

The rest of your post is an appeal to emotion and thus irrelevant.

Best Wishes

 

[Gabe]

No offence intended, but there is so much FAIL in this thread that I (as a Christian) find it to be personally embarrassing.

 

[Photosmith]

Just curious, but why is it so popular to make statements here and never back them up with a source?

Here's an example:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism

atheism

Main Entry:
athe·ism Listen to the pronunciation of atheism
Pronunciation: \ˈÄÂ-thÄ“-ËŒi-zÉ™m\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date: 1546

1archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2 a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity

Now I'm not saying you aren't entitled to cite a conflicting source, but lets try to keep things factual here. I would think an atheist of all people wouldn't want people to take his word for it on faith alone. So cite a source. Webster shows the valid definition of atheism as disbelief in the existence of deity or the doctrine that there is no deity. While you say there is no holy book, dogma, or rituals that is fine but it's still interesting to note that Websters still calls it a doctrine.

I'm not trying to argue with you, but I do encourage you to cite sources and make statements which are supported by credible material.

 

[Sanitarium]

Webster shows the valid definition of atheism as disbelief in the existence of deity or the doctrine that there is no deity.

Your definition of doctrine is incomplete (too narrow):

Doctrine (Latin: doctrina) is a codification of beliefs or "a body of teachings" or "instructions", taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system. The Greek analogy is the etymology of catechism. 1

Often doctrine specifically connotes a corpus of religious dogma as it is promulgated by a church, but not necessarily: doctrine is also used to refer to a principle of law, in the common law traditions, established through a history of past decisions, such as the doctrine of self-defense, or the principle of fair use, or the more narrowly applicable first-sale doctrine. In some organizations, doctrine is simply defined as 'that which is taught', in other words the basis for institutional teaching of its personnel internal ways of doing business.2

However Webster's definition of Doctrine states:

Main Entry:
doc·trine Listen to the pronunciation of doctrine
Pronunciation:
\ˈdäk-trən\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French & Latin; Anglo-French, from Latin doctrina, from doctor
Date:
14th century

1archaic : teaching, instruction
2 a: something that is taught b: a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma c: a principle of law established through past decisions d: a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations e: a military principle or set of strategies
Source

Note the bolded portion

While you say there is no holy book, dogma, or rituals that is fine but it's still interesting to note that Websters still calls it a doctrine.

Right! Read above.

I'm not trying to argue with you, but I do encourage you to cite sources and make statements which are supported by credible material.

No problems thanks. I just thought (it should have been) obvious that Atheism is not a belief but a lack of (A) belief in a deity (theism).

Thanks muchly!

 

[Gabe]

What Sani is trying to show is that there is a difference between Atheism and Anti-Theism. All Anti-Theists may be Atheists, but not all Atheists are Anti-Theists.

All Protestants may be Christian, but not all Christians are Protestants.

 

[Guest]

If I tell you I am an Atheist, this only tells you what I do not believe - it does not tell you what I do believe.

I am not a stamp collector.

 

[animal]

I couldn't have said it better Jon-Marc, why not attend a forum that caters to your needs? I could write a list of infamous atheists that right now this minute are clamoring for a way to escape hell eternal, begging for a drop of water to put on their tongues while screaming in the flames. Where are the voices that cry out to repent and beg Gods forgiveness before its too late..

Albert Einstein

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism."

"I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it."

"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed."

-Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

Carl Sagan

"My view is that if there is no evidence for it, then forget about it. An agnostic is somebody who doesn't believe in something until there is evidence for it, so I'm agnostic."

-Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author.

Benjamin Franklin

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."

"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."

-Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor.

You that mock God are in for an unpleasant surprise we don't have to prove a thing Jesus Christ crucified placed in the tomb then rose from the dead on the third day, now he sits at the right hand of God the Father.

turnorburn

If you think this is flaming you haven't seen anything yet.

By infamous do you mean having one of the most brilliant minds in history?

we don't have to prove a thing

Yes you do.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
- infamous atheist burning in hell.

 

[Guest]

we don't have to prove a thing

Yes you do.

Why does the one making a claim have to support their claim?

 

[JoJo]

If you wish to convert Atheists, then you first must actually understand what Atheism is...

Thank you for trying to clear up some misconceptions about atheism. Now I would like to try to clear up a misconception for you, if that's okay.

Speaking for myself and others I know, I have never tried to "convert" anyone. All I ever wish to do is share the love of Jesus with those that haven't found it. It's this incredible, overwhelming, invigorating, joyful, peaceful, comforting, astounding, revealing love that true Christianity is all about. I pray that one day you will be able to experience it.

 

[lovely]

If you wish to convert Atheists, then you first must actually understand what Atheism is...

Thank you for trying to clear up some misconceptions about atheism. Now I would like to try to clear up a misconception for you, if that's okay.

Speaking for myself and others I know, I have never tried to "convert" anyone. All I ever wish to do is share the love of Jesus with those that haven't found it. It's this incredible, overwhelming, invigorating, joyful, peaceful, comforting, astounding, revealing love that true Christianity is all about. I pray that one day you will be able to experience it.

I agree JoJo, it would be useless to try to convert others, because belief must be genuine, but sometimes I can't resist the desire to share what I have found in Jesus.

 

[animal]

we don't have to prove a thing

Yes you do.

Why does the one making a claim have to support their claim?

before I respond to this are you kidding?

 

[Guest]

Why does the one making a claim have to support their claim?

before I respond to this are you kidding?

Well, yes and no. Burden of proof is bound to social context. That is, a burden of proof only exists when a social context expects that one support their claims (i.e., court rooms, forums with rules about supporting claims, etc.) and the individual chooses to participate within that social context. Thus, a burden of proof is not automatic and universal as many wrongly assume.

So, does turnorburn and whoever the "we" refers to in his statement have an obligation to support their claims? And if so, why? That is, what about the social context obligates it?

 

[JMM]

Burden of proof is bound to social context. That is, a burden of proof only exists when a social context expects that one support their claims (i.e., court rooms, forums with rules about supporting claims, etc.) and the individual chooses to participate within that social context. Thus, a burden of proof is not automatic and universal as many wrongly assume.

So, does turnorburn and whoever the "we" refers to in his statement have an obligation to support their claims? And if so, why? That is, what about the social context obligates it?

Turnorburn, of course, is right that we don't HAVE to prove a thing. It's a free country, and we are free to make whatever claims we want without any obligation to support them.

What we also need to realize, however, is this.....if we tell an atheist that they are going to spend eternity burning alive, weeping and gnashing their teeth in this horrible place we call Hell.....but then when politely asked for proof, we simply tell them that "we don't have to prove a thing".....can we really EXPECT them to take our claim seriously?

 

[Guest]

can we really EXPECT them to take our claim seriously?

What is the social context? Do you wish to convince them of these claims? Then, as I pointed out, you would have an obligation to support your claims. If you do not wish to convince them, then it doesn't matter if you support them or not.