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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Audio commentary for the New Testament
- Thread starter nt333
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For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16
- having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances
The law of Moses was the middle wall of separation between Jew and Gentile which created enmity between them.
JLB
We are not under the punishment of the law like the people were in the old testament. We are saved by grace through faith alone, but the law was never abolished (Mathew 5:17-19) and it still pleases God when you obey ALL of his commandments. We are saved by grace, but we are still rewarded for following God's law and other works that we do. Those who ignore the smallest of God’s laws and teach others to do so will be the least in the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:19). Acts 15:29 even gives us some old testament laws for new Christians to follow as a minimum, but people continue to ignore the rest of the law even after they are no longer new Christians. They continue to misinterpret Paul's teaching as if we no longer need to follow the law.
1 John 2:4 "If someone claims, 'I know God,' but doesn’t obey God’s commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth."
So in Matthew 5:17-18, you're saying Jesus ended the Law. Using the same absurd logic, you must also agree that in Matthew 3:15, Jesus abolished/ended righteousness when he got baptized. And likewise for Romans 13:8 that when we love, we are ending the law. Fulfill simply means to do something that is expected, hoped for, or promised. So when we are loving others, as the Law commands, we are completing its expectations/requirements.
In Matthew 5:18 Jesus said that not a single letter will disappear from the law, meaning either ALL of the law still applies, or NONE of it does. Obviously, all of it still applies. Jesus never differentiated between moral, sacrificial, and other laws, they were all referred to as the law. As far as other OT laws like the animal sacrifices, we don't have the temple today, but we will in the future, and during the millennium rule of Christ the sacrifices will resume. Most scholars believe that these sacrifices will not be as an atonement for sins, but rather as remembrance or as a lesson that the wages of sin is death.
The law still determines what sin is, and the law is eternal (Psalm 119:160, 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7).
Long before the law was given to Moses, Cain’s brother Able knew it was right to sacrifice animals to God, and Cain knew that fruits of his labor are not a valid sacrifice. Cain also knew that murder is wrong. God's law doesn't cha
nge.
We are under a stricter law than that of Moses.
Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? Hebrews 10:28-29
- Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
JLB
Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to explain the spiritual meaning of it. In Matthew 5:27-28 he said "you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'you shall not commit adultery' but I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
He explains that sin begins in heart not just the physical action. Same with murder in Matthew 5:21, The murder begins with anger in your heart.
Nothing you said supports antinomianism, I do not trample Christ or grace underfoot because I recognize that I am saved by grace through faith alone and nothing else. You however don't recognize that sin is still with defines law and Christ did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it so it is no longer killing us. He made it clear in Matthew 5:19 that whoever ignores the smallest laws and teaches others to do so will be the least in heaven.
Jesus did not come to abolish the law but to explain the spiritual meaning of it. In Matthew 5:27-28 he said "you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'you shall not commit adultery' but I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
He explains that sin begins in heart not just the physical action. Same with murder in Matthew 5:21, The murder begins with anger in your heart.
Nothing you said supports antinomianism, I do not trample Christ or grace underfoot because I recognize that I am saved by grace through faith alone and nothing else. You however don't recognize that sin is still defined by law and Christ did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it so it is no longer killing us. He made it clear in Matthew 5:19 that whoever ignores the smallest laws and teaches others to do so will be the least in heaven,
So you believe we must sacrifice animals for our sins?
No because there is no temple currently, but there will be one in the future, and there will be during the millenial rule of Christ. Jesus atoned for our sins, but the Bible prophesizes about a future temple where animal sacrfices will resume, supposedly to act as a reminder or as a lesson that wages of sin is death, not to actually atone for sins.
https://www.gotquestions.org/millennial-sacrifices.html
The old testament sacrfices never atoned for sins either, and it wasn't until the sacrfice of Jesus that our sins are now covered.
Hebrews 10:4 "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins."
If you don't believe we need to sacrifice animals for our sins, then you believe the law of Moses, which was added, has been abolished because it was always temporary.
If you believe you are under the law of Moses, then you need to sacrifice animals for your sins as the law required.
JLB
- having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19
- What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come
Has the Seed come?
JLB
Mathew 5:17 "“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
He was clear that he did not come abolish the law but the emnity/condemnation that the law had against us. Now we are no longer separated from God because we fail to follow the law. The seed has saved us from condemnation of the law.
I noticed that you only quoted a part of the passage, the part that suits your perspective.
Whenever we see a passage that seeming contradicts another passage, we should make sure we thoroughly examine and study what is being said.
I'm going to list 3 passages that pertain to this subject of the law and see if you can identify a common word in all of them.
I will begin with your passage from Matthew 5 -
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18
“The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. Luke 16:16
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19
What word do you see in these 3 passages that are common to each other?
Ask the Holy Spirit to show you.
JLB
You accuse me of quoting only a part of Mathew 5 passage that suits me... yet you haven't provided any surrounding verse that don't suit my argument.
Luke 16:16 is talking about the old testament being proclaimed until John came to proclaim the new testament, that doesn't go against anything I said. The new testament establishes salvation by faith on the sacrifice of Jesus, it says nothing about Jesus abolishing the law.
How do you know what sin is without the law? How do you know it's the Holy Spirit telling you to disobey God's law and not some other unclear spirit? How many people have used your false gospel to justify all sorts of atrocities because "God told them to do it" or they felt that it was God telling them something? You are going by feelings instead of facts. God gave us commandments that specify what sin is.
Also in Ephesians 2:15 the word for ordinance is δόγμασιν (dogmasin) or dogma, that's a word used to describe man made rules, and it has NEVER been used to describe God's Torah. Pharisees came up with man made rules to separate gentiles from ethnic Jews, and those are the laws that Jesus came to abolish.
The common word in the three scriptures I quoted that pertains to the topic of the law we are discussing is the word “until”.
Here it is in Matthew 5 -
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18
- one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled
Jesus said He came to fulfill the law.
Do you believe Jesus fulfilled the law?
JLB
Jesus did fulfill the law.
Do you believe heaven and Earth passed away? Because until heaven and Earth pass away not one letter will disappear until ALL is fulfilled.
Also, you pretty much claim that fulfill means to end. So in Matthew 5:17-18 Jesus ended the Law. Using the same absurd logic, you must also agree that in Matthew 3:15, Jesus abolished/ended righteousness when he got baptized. And likewise for Romans 13:8 that when we love, we are ending the law.
Fulfill simply means to do something that is expected, hoped for, or promised. So when we are loving others, as the law commands, we are completing its expectations/requirements. Jesus fulfilled the expectations of the law, so now we are no longer under the punishment of the law.
Jesus said that nothing would pass from the law until it was fulfilled.
It has been fulfilled.
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19
The Seed has come and fulfilled the law.
Nothing would stop Him from fulfilling the law of Moses… heaven and earth would pass away before anything would get in the way of Him fulfilling the law.
Now we are under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses.
Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Galatians 6:2
We keep His commandments and obey His doctrine.
JLB
No, Jesus said nothing will pass from the law until ALL is fulfilled, and not all has been fulfilled. We still have majority of the population that doesn't know God, so obviously not all that God has intended to be fulfilled has been fulfilled. The total fulfillment of the new covenant will be with the new heaven and the new Earth.
You keep going in circles with Galaticans 3:19, I"ve already addressed it. The seed has liberated us from the punishment of the law, but the law still determines what sin is. Sin is violation of God law. Obviously that is not the case and you are quoting it out of context.
1 John 3:4 “Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.”
Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
By your logic Galatians 6:2 means satan worshipers and pagans are fulfilling the law of Christ just by being good to their neighbors.
His commandments is were love God with your whole mind soul and strength, and love you neighbor. How do you love him? How do you define you love for God? How do you know what sin is?
I don’t believe Jesus would lie to us.
He said He came to fulfill the law.
- I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18
- one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
“The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
Luke 16:16
What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Ephesians 2:14-15
- having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances,
- having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:13-14
- So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
JLB
You do understand that no one can be saved by the law?
“By the deeds of the law shall no man be justified “
I don’t think anyone is saying the law is not good and right. But if you seek to be justified by it, we’ll then…..