Avoiding Condemnation during the Tribulations

With so much speculation concerning the mark of the beast, the book of Revelation warns of a few serious condemnations that appear more subtil and, if we aren't careful, will result in condemnation.

1) Do not wonder after the beast.

(rev17:8) The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

We can thus determine if we fret and wonder after the beast, this behavior will lead us into condemnation. Yet, the angel speaking to John, full of wisdom and prophecy for the purpose of edification, describes the beast as "was, is not, and yet is." Thus, the minute we observe this beast, we should cut off our minds from pondering, instead favoring the scriptures, else we should fall into condemnation.

(rev13:4) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

If we should ever feel so oppressed, that we dare not fight the oppressor, or if we hear that sentiment from others, we should be watchful, as this sentiment itself is as dangerous as the mark. We shall not say, "who can fight against the beast", rather we take strength in the faith of Jesus Christ. How then should we defend ourselves? How then should we fight?

Faith, testimony, patience...

(rev12:11) And they overcame him by the blood of the lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

(rev14:12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

These are the attributes of the saints God loves, and we are commanded to testify the truth of the scriptures.

2) No worship, No mark.

(rev13:14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

(rev13:15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

If you do not worship the beast, you will not take the mark. With such speculation, I fear the world will wonder after the beast and eventually take the mark (as describes the scriptures.) Thus, if you hear of doctrines other than those of Jesus Christ, do not listen. If you observe the beast rising, cut off your mind from pondering it.

God bless you in the holy name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi I_love_you_lots and welcome to CF

Thank you for sharing this as I love the simplistic of how you wrote this that even a child could understand.


Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So much to fear for those who believe Revelation is all in the future. There is such peace and freedom in knowing its all past except, of course, for the Second Coming and the Resurrection. That’s a joyous anticipation.

 

[I_love_you_lots]

Hi I_love_you_lots and welcome to CF

Thank you for sharing this as I love the simplistic of how you wrote this that even a child could understand.


Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Thank you, and thanks for sharing the scriptures as well

I hope I can find the information I'm looking for concerning the beliefs of the christian churches. I believe it is evident we are living in the last days, with the tribulations either current or approaching, and I seek to get a feel for the status of other christians beliefs.

 

[I_love_you_lots]

So much to fear for those who believe Revelation is all in the future. There is such peace and freedom in knowing its all past except, of course, for the Second Coming and the Resurrection. That’s a joyous anticipation.

I wish you would explain, I personally believe tribulations are here or approaching. Why has it passed?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I wish you would explain, I personally believe tribulations are here or approaching. Why has it passed?

There are different views of eschatology (end times theology) and I have recently discovered and embraced the view that the events predicted in Matthew 24, verses 1-35 were fulfilled in that generation culminating in the destruction of the temple as Jesus predicted. It was actually exactly as Jesus had said (not one stone upon another) because the temple had so much gold that melted and flowed down between the stones, there was not one stone left upon another after the soldiers turned over all the stones looking for the gold. The events described in Jesus telling of those terrible times can be matched to real events happening as the Romans marched through Judea on their way to Jerusalem. Jesus told them that their generation would not pass away until all of what he predicted would have taken place and so it was. It happened or finished happening in 70AD, 40 years after the prediction. There were signs in the sky such as a comet in the shape of a sword hanging over Jerusalem for a year before.

In the latter half of Matthew 24 starting at verse 36, he describes his second coming but it is not with the destruction of the planet and no warning signs. In Acts 11:1 the angel said he will come as he left, no military escort and no vengeance and blood shed. This is still to come.

There is a lot more to be said, but I do not believe there is a rapture but I do believe there is the second coming of Christ which will mean the Resurrection will occur where the dead rise first which is described in scripture and often taken to mean a "Rapture" but I am sure is the Resurrection as judgement follows. So I do not believe there is an Antichrist coming who will rule the world. That word is not even used in Revelation. The Beast was a very evil man, perhaps the most evil who ever lived, who is long gone. The 3.5 years of great tribulation are over long ago and God punished that nation who did that as well as the people who rejected their Messiah. That was the reason for that time of great tribulation. They had rejected the Messiah and so all the blood of all the prophets was required of them. That is no longer true. No one lives today who murdered the prophets of God nor the Messiah.

That is my view. I can supply lots of Scripture directly although I have woven it into my text above for those who recognize scripture in other forms. You need not believe it but it is always good to look into positions you do not hold so you understand what you do believe and why and what you do not believe any why.

 

[I_love_you_lots]

Well said! Yet, I regrettably disagree and am very worried about the state of the Christian church, believing we have missed our Fathers great warning. God bless you, and stay watchful.

luke21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well said! Yet, I regrettably disagree and am very worried about the state of the Christian church, believing we have missed our Fathers great warning. God bless you, and stay watchful.

luke21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

What exactly are you watching for? What do you differently on days you are not particularly watchful? What are you expecting to see and what will you do when you see it?

 

[dwb001]

What exactly are you watching for? What do you differently on days you are not particularly watchful? What are you expecting to see and what will you do when you see it?

The changing times. The events that signal the end of the age is approaching.
I am never "not particularly watchful".
I expect to see the fulfilment of prophecy.
I will exalt the Lord for He has shown beforehand what must happen.

How would you react to prophecy fulfilled in your sight?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The changing times. The events that signal the end of the age is approaching.
I am never "not particularly watchful".
I expect to see the fulfilment of prophecy.
I will exalt the Lord for He has shown beforehand what must happen.

How would you react to prophecy fulfilled in your sight?

And what do you do differently? I mean the first century Christians were watchful so they knew to leave town when the prophesies were fulfilled. What do you do differently?

I have been hearing this "prophesy fulfilled in your sight" for over 40 years and the thing that was supposed "to be beginning" never happened. Later I saw that only individual scriptures were extracted and applied to the news. The whole of the events were ignored for the excitement of "prophesy fulfilled..he is coming soon" view.

But I was wondering what those so excited do differently.

 

[dwb001]

And what do you do differently? I mean the first century Christians were watchful so they knew to leave town when the prophesies were fulfilled. What do you do differently?

Prepare... physically and more importantly spiritually.
I am quite ready to die(although I don't want to die). Are you... really?
I am quite happy identifying with the Philadelphian Church. (you probably have a different view of that church as well)

I have been hearing this "prophesy fulfilled in your sight" for over 40 years and the thing that was supposed "to be beginning" never happened. Later I saw that only individual scriptures were extracted and applied to the news. The whole of the events were ignored for the excitement of "prophesy fulfilled..he is coming soon" view.

But I was wondering what those so excited do differently.

What do you mean by "so excited"?

Just a thought experiment.... what if you are wrong and the other guys are right?

Would you take the Mark of the Beast? After all it has no real meaning for you.
Would you worship the image of the Beast? You hold no fear of the warnings in Revelation.
Would you turn on your family and friends that refuse to participate because they think Revelation is true as written?
Are you mentally preparing yourself for torture unto death?
Are you mentally preparing yourself for the hatred of your peers, starvation, homelessness?
Are you ready to be tested and tried?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Prepare... physically and more importantly spiritually.

What does this mean? How do you prepare "spiritually" and physically. I cannot imagine what you do differently than the atheist next door. I am really wondering.

I am quite ready to die(although I don't want to die). Are you... really?

Of course but that has nothing to do with the end times. Although the hysteria during covid days tells me few are actually prepared to die. They weren't even prepared to suffer a mild viral infection, let alone die doing his will.

I am quite happy identifying with the Philadelphian Church. (you probably have a different view of that church as well)

They are long dead and gone and we cannot just choose the people we want to say define us because it is complimentary.

What do you mean by "so excited"?

Well, the end times are upon us group are pretty excited about the tribulation being around the corner. That is all. There is an emotional undergirding to their eschatology, clearly. They do not take disagreement in stride.

Just a thought experiment.... what if you are wrong and the other guys are right?

Then I did not have to live with the fear of terrible times about to come upon me, that I cannot prevent.

Would you take the Mark of the Beast? After all it has no real meaning for you.

That is over.

Would you worship the image of the Beast? You hold no fear of the warnings in Revelation.

You do not even know who this is? How will you know not to worship it? How many christians believed the government and took those injections no question? The beast just needs to tell them that the tattoo is safe and effective and they will believe. Add the "no job if you don't" and it will be no contest.

Would you turn on your family and friends that refuse to participate because they think Revelation is true as written?

Did you turn on those who refused the covid shots? Many did.

Are you mentally preparing yourself for torture unto death?

How do you prepare yourself for that? Being prepared for death is a duty of all christian of all ages. Being prepared to suffer as a result of our faith is the same. And I have already suffered for my faith. Have you?

Are you mentally preparing yourself for the hatred of your peers, starvation, homelessness?

Been there done that. How do you prepare? Shall we talk about this in detail? I think it interesting.

Are you ready to be tested and tried?

Been there done that. How do you prepare?

 

[dwb001]

What does this mean? How do you prepare "spiritually" and physically. I cannot imagine what you do differently that the atheist next door. I am really wondering.

So what do you think I am doing?

Of course but that has nothing to do with the end times. Although the hysteria during covid days tells me few are actually prepared to die. They weren't even prepared to suffer a mild viral infection, let alone die doing his will.

I was ready. See the difference if you are prepared.

They are long dead and gone and we cannot just choose the people we want to say define us because it is complimentary.

See.. you don't understand. Your mind is closed to the truth of Revelation.

Well, the end times are upon us group are pretty excited about the tribulation being around the corner. That is all. There is an emotional undergirding to their eschatology, clearly. They do not take disagreement in stride.

So you have no emotion in your faith?
And you presume that emotion is the undergirding of their faith. It is the reverse in my case and probably many others. Faith in the Word as written fills us with emotion.

Then I did not have to live with the fear of terrible times about to come upon me, that I cannot prevent.

This is your response to "if the Tribulation is still ahead of you"?
Why live in fear? Anticipation is a much nicer way to live.

That is over.

And if it isn't you will take the Mark? So then you would be damning yourself to Hell(according to Revelation).

You do not even know who this is? How will you know not to worship it? How many christians believed the government and took those injections no question? The beast just needs to tell them that the tattoo is safe and effective and they will believe. Add the "no job if you don't" and it will be no contest.

So we keep watching and the Beast will be revealed. If you don't look you will not see.

Did you turn on those who refused the covid shots? Many did.

Why should I turn on myself? And yes, many did... and that is very sad.

How do you prepare yourself for that? Being prepared for death is a duty of all christian of all ages. Being prepared to suffer as a result of our faith is the same. And I have already suffered for my faith. Have you?

Yes I have. As much as others... no. To my eternal shame I have not suffered near as much as I really should have.
A coward dies many times before his death.
You ask how to prepare and then say it is the duty of all Christians to be prepared... so are you preparing or just being a bad Christian?

Been there done that. How do you prepare? Shall we talk about this in detail? I think it interesting.

Again you said it is YOUR duty to prepare. So how are you preparing?
Mental preparation for what may come is part of it.
Watching for the signs is part of it.
Praying like Jesus prayed in the Garden is part of it.
Live your life like you are going to be persecuted like no one have ever seen before is part of it.

Been there done that. How do you prepare?

You have starved to death? Fascinating.
How would you prepare for a hurricane? Do that.
How would you prepare for a war? Do that.
How would you prepare for your neighbours to turn on you? Do that.
How would you prepare if Jesus asked you to die for Him? Do that.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

dwb001

I know I can come across as aggressive because I am direct. But I really do wonder what those who believe the end times are upon us do differently than those who don't. I am sincere. I cannot imagine what one does. I believed it for decades and I did not do any differently than atheists when it comes to life choices. I married and had children and pursued a career. Of course I did that differently but that is independent of anyone's end times eschatology. The only thing I can think of is the international house of prayer's message to tell young people not to get an education because Jesus was coming any day now. Some did not. It was extremely foolish and made them unskilled for life. That is the only example I can think of. Do you have others?

 

[dwb001]

dwb001

I know I can come across as aggressive because I am direct. But I really do wonder what those who believe the end times are upon us do differently than those who don't. I am sincere. I cannot imagine what one does. I believed it for decades and I did not do any differently than atheists when it comes to life choices. I married and had children and pursued a career. Of course I did that differently but that is independent of anyone's end times eschatology. The only thing I can think of is the international house of prayer's message to tell young people not to get an education because Jesus was coming any day now. Some did not. It was extremely foolish and made them unskilled for life. That is the only example I can think of. Do you have others?

Other examples of what? People making decisions that turn out to be not the best.

Ask a real question if you are sincere.
Think about it... ponder it... and also put in an example of what you think could be a solution to the question.
Try a real question and I will give you an honest response.
If the question is shallow or not well constructed you will receive an equally shallow response.
You may think your question is deep but if you find my response shallow it is a reflection of how I percieve your question.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

So what do you think I am doing?

I have no idea, that is why I ask.

I was ready. See the difference if you are prepared.

Ready for what and how?

See.. you don't understand. Your mind is closed to the truth of Revelation.

My mind is quite open and I understand Revelation better than I used to understand it. But drop the personal attack please.

So you have no emotion in your faith?
And you presume that emotion is the undergirding of their faith. It is the reverse in my case and probably many others. Faith in the Word as written fills us with emotion.

No, I did not say emotion is the undergirding of their faith. I said they have a deep emotional stake in the tribulation being around the corner evidenced by vicious attacks on those who do not believe this. I do not have an emotional stake in my eschatology. I can listen to opposite opinions without attacking personally those who do agree with me.

This is your response to "if the Tribulation is still ahead of you"?
Why live in fear? Anticipation is a much nicer way to live.

Well, the description is the worst suffering ever occurring on the planet and that does not make you afraid?

And if it isn't you will take the Mark? So then you would be damning yourself to Hell(according to Revelation).

I have already been tested in refusing wrong and taking the incurred punishment from man. I am also fairly discerning when it comes to right and wrong and am not easily fooled. I notice I detect wrong when others just brush it off.

So we keep watching and the Beast will be revealed. If you don't look you will not see.

If it is a creature that dominates the whole world, it will be impossible not to see.

Why should I turn on myself? And yes, many did... and that is very sad.

Yes I have. As much as others... no. To my eternal shame I have not suffered near as much as I really should have.
A coward dies many times before his death.
You ask how to prepare and then say it is the duty of all Christians to be prepared... so are you preparing or just being a bad Christian?

Preparing for a tribulation that I see as long over? No more than I am preparing for the birth of Christ that is long over.

Again you said it is YOUR duty to prepare. So how are you preparing?
Mental preparation for what may come is part of it.
Watching for the signs is part of it.
Praying like Jesus prayed in the Garden is part of it.
Live your life like you are going to be persecuted like no one have ever seen before is part of it.

I do not live thinking people are going to persecute me so I do not trust them. I live obeying the Lord each day as seems apparent. What better preparation is there? And since I do not think there is a beast or tribulation coming, I can live in peace.

You have starved to death? Fascinating.
How would you prepare for a hurricane? Do that.
How would you prepare for a war? Do that.
How would you prepare for your neighbours to turn on you? Do that.
How would you prepare if Jesus asked you to die for Him? Do that.

You are changing the goal posts. You never said any of that. Read what you wrote and my answers to what you wrote. Do not change the question AFTER I gave the answer, please.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Other examples of what? People making decisions that turn out to be not the best.

Ask a real question if you are sincere.

I did. What do you do differently than the atheist next door when it comes to preparing for the great tribulation? That is a sincere question. Do you have no answer and so apply the ad hominem as though I am insincere?

Think about it... ponder it... and also put in an example of what you think could be a solution to the question.
Try a real question and I will give you an honest response.
If the question is shallow or not well constructed you will receive an equally shallow response.
You may think your question is deep but if you find my response shallow it is a reflection of how I percieve your question.

OK, you obviously have no answer. That is because there is none. The christian who thinks Jesus is coming next week or that the great tribulation is coming next year is not doing anything different than the atheist who is ignorant of such. Maybe they have exciting talks with others who think the same. Maybe they have exciting sermons who promise the listeners that they will be alive when Jesus comes.

The answer to preparing for persecution is being willing to take a stand for right and truth in smaller matters. Most recently I think those believers who stood against the lies of the government regarding Covid and those injections grew in their faith and courage and will be better able to withstand other governmental pressure to have something else injected. They are openly hated in some places. Those who succumbed without looking into matters and worse, hounded those who took a different course (I could name names here) have lost a growing opportunity as well as embraced a level of darkness to protect their choice. That was the most recent example. The British clergy refused to close their doors and the whole country was granted freedom as a result. A example of biblical courage that blessed the nation.

 

[dwb001]

I did. What do you do differently than the atheist next door when it comes to preparing for the great tribulation? That is a sincere question. Do you have no answer and so apply the ad hominem as though I am insincere?

Because I see that you are insincere... that would be the reason I respond the way I do.
And why are you comparing a Christian getting ready for the Lords return to an atheist?
My answer would be... I am trusting God and the atheist is not.

OK, you obviously have no answer. That is because there is none. The christian who thinks Jesus is coming next week or that the great tribulation is coming next year is not doing anything different than the atheist who is ignorant of such. Maybe they have exciting talks with others who think the same. Maybe they have exciting sermons who promise the listeners that they will be alive when Jesus comes.

Your previous statement is not worthy of a response... but I will respond anyway.
So if the doctors gave you 3-6 months to live... you would do nothing differently than the person next door that has no immediate time limit? Balderdash!

The answer to preparing for persecution is being willing to take a stand for right and truth in smaller matters. Most recently I think those believers who stood against the lies of the government regarding Covid and those injections grew in their faith and courage and will be better able to withstand other governmental pressure to have something else injected. They are openly hated in some places. Those who succumbed without looking into matters and worse, hounded those who took a different course (I could name names here) have lost a growing opportunity as well as embraced a level of darkness to protect their choice. That was the most recent example. The British clergy refused to close their doors and the whole country was granted freedom as a result. A example of biblical courage that blessed the nation.

Wow... so you say there is no answer and then you provide an answer.
I am willing to answer all your questions... but be specific.
I have answered your questions... you don't like the answers... maybe ask different questions.
Maybe try something specific other than "how would you prepare"?

 

[dwb001]

I have no idea, that is why I ask.

Think about it. Or do you have no imagination? Some people are very limited in their ability to think through situations due to a lack of imagination. What if Revelation happened as a post-trib person says it would? Think about it and put yourself into the situation. Then you will have an idea.

Ready for what and how?

Your question was about dying of Covid. I was ready to die. How... of Covid.

My mind is quite open and I understand Revelation better than I used to understand it. But drop the personal attack please.

Just observing what I see. Not meant as an attack... just an observation.

No, I did not say emotion is the undergirding of their faith.

You quite literally did say that.

I said they have a deep emotional stake in the tribulation being around the corner evidenced by vicious attacks on those who do not believe this. I do not have an emotional stake in my eschatology. I can listen to opposite opinions without attacking personally those who do agree with me.

I try to only attack the ideas.
No vicious attacks here.

Well, the description is the worst suffering ever occurring on the planet and that does not make you afraid?

No.

I have already been tested in refusing wrong and taking the incurred punishment from man. I am also fairly discerning when it comes to right and wrong and am not easily fooled. I notice I detect wrong when others just brush it off.

And how will that work for you when it is comply or die? What if it is more subtle than that? What if there is a valid and logical reason to take the Mark? What if it makes sense?

If it is a creature that dominates the whole world, it will be impossible not to see.

And what if you got that wrong? Where is it written that the Beast will be unmistakable? If the Beast is impossible to miss... why would anyone follow him?

Preparing for a tribulation that I see as long over? No more than I am preparing for the birth of Christ that is long over.

You said it is every Christians duty to be prepared... then ask how I am preparing.
Which one is it?

I do not live thinking people are going to persecute me so I do not trust them. I live obeying the Lord each day as seems apparent. What better preparation is there? And since I do not think there is a beast or tribulation coming, I can live in peace.

Where did I say I don't trust people... even those who might betray me?
If you are obeying the Lord... what does the Lord say to do in Revelation?
If you don't think the Beast or Tribulation is coming then why are you talking to me? Don't worry about it.

You are changing the goal posts. You never said any of that. Read what you wrote and my answers to what you wrote. Do not change the question AFTER I gave the answer, please.

Where did I change a goalpost? You said you faced starvation and I said wow.
The other questions and "do that" answers are how to prepare.
You know... answering the question you have been asking.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Because I see that you are insincere... that would be the reason I respond the way I do.

I am not at all insincere. You could compare your preparations for the end times to christians who do not believe they are coming.

And why are you comparing a Christian getting ready for the Lords return to an atheist?

Because there ought to be a difference. I can tell you MANY differences between the choices believers make at work as compared to atheists. The differences are sometimes night and day.

My answer would be... I am trusting God and the atheist is not.

Trusting is not something difference you DO. The atheist, by the way, is not worried about soon end times. From the outside he is trusting that they are not going to happen. You are trusting you will be OK. From the outside, there is no difference.

Your previous statement is not worthy of a response... but I will respond anyway.
So if the doctors gave you 3-6 months to live... you would do nothing differently than the person next door that has no immediate time limit? Balderdash!

Impending death in 3 months that is certain makes EVERYONE behave differently than the man who is not in that position, atheists and believers alike. This is not a good example.

Wow... so you say there is no answer and then you provide an answer.

No, I said there is no answer to what those who believe the endgames are soon do differently and those who do not.

I am willing to answer all your questions... but be specific.
I have answered your questions... you don't like the answers... maybe ask different questions.
Maybe try something specific other than "how would you prepare"?

But I wanted to know what you do differently. Ok, you trust and for you, that is different than those who do not so believe. OK, we can move on.